BETTY AND RICHARD HORD

TRANSCRIPT %u2013BETTY AND RICHARD HORD
[Compiled May 27th, 2009]

Interviewees: BETTY AND RICHARD HORD

Interviewers: Buzz Biggerstaff and Jeff Currie

Interview Date: August 18, 2008

Location: Lawndale, North Carolina (at the Hord home)

Length: Approximately 98 minutes

BETTY HORD: I just don%u2019t remember that we had a hard%u2014I don%u2019t know. We maybe had a hard time and I wasn%u2019t aware of it, you know.
JEFF CURRIE: Right.
BH: But I remember it being talked%u2014now Richard does%u2014he remembers the Depression.
But, for me, this is the worst, and I don%u2019t think it%u2019s over [laughed]. I think it%u2019s going to get worse.
BUZZ BIGERSTAFF: It%u2019s going to take a while to get out of this.
BH: Yeah, before it gets better.
JC: It seems like everything has gone from here; we don%u2019t make nothing in this country, it seems like, any more. And what we do make seems to be going every day.
BH: Something%u2019s going to have to change. Something%u2019s going to have to change. It is.
JC: Well, I guess to start out, I kind of want to know how both of y%u2019all grew up. You know, in a mill village or did you grow up on the%u2026
BH: %u2026Neither one of us grew up in the village%u2014the mill village. Actually, I grew up about a mile or so out of Lawndale in the country, but my dad owned a business in Lawndale. It was S.F. Lee Grocery, and all my life he owned it. As long as I can, you know, that was all I ever remember him doing. So, a lot of my life centered%u2014what I know about Lawndale centered around the store. Of course, we were surrounded by people that worked in the mill. They were all Daddy%u2019s%u2014our friends, and traded with Daddy. It was quite a different time from today. Actually, I guess we were probably at the store most every day. So, I really don%u2019t know what kind of stuff you want to know about.
JC: Well, a little bit of everything.
BH: I tell you, I just did a presentation Saturday night for our Piedmont [school] reunion, and they wanted me to do it around my growing up around Daddy%u2019s store. Daddy%u2019s store was the focus, %u2018cause that was the focus for me.
JC: It was your life.
BH: Yeah, it was. I don%u2019t guess I was ever in the mill but a couple of times. So, I%u2019ll just kind of tell you a little bit about what I said Saturday night, if that%u2019s all right.
JC: OK. That would be great.
BH: OK, if I can remember. I did grow up around the store. One of my earliest memories that I shared that I thought was a point of interest--. Daddy%u2014just behind that, Daddy%u2019s store sat right on Main Street. We referred%u2014I think I told you it was this side of the river or the other side of the river. Well, it was the other side of the river from here, is where his store was. Over, really, in the mill village.
JC: Right.
BH: Every so often, a tent revival would come to town. They%u2019d throw a big tent up, and it was directly behind Daddy%u2019s store, and it was on mill property. As a child, and out of my curiosity, I would walk back there. I would stand out on the outside%u2014never went in, but I would stand on the outside and listen and observe. All the preaching was fire and brimstone, and there was a lot of shouting. That%u2019s the way it was, and it would frighten me. One day, following one of those experiences, I was at home and I went outside and I started digging. When Mother saw me, she came out and wanted to know what I was doing. I said, %u201CWell, I am going to find out where this hell is that all those preachers preach about [all laughed].%u201D
BB: You were going to dig all the way.
BH: I didn%u2019t know that concept of hell, you know, that they%u2019s a%u2019 talking about.
JC: You were digging for it [laughed].
BH: But I was going to find out where that hell was. But anyway, that%u2019s one of the earliest things that I remember. Then, another interesting personal experience%u2014I had a cousin that lived in Lawndale that--we were the same age, and I would go to his house a lot. His mother would send us to the store, and, of course, I never knew anything about paying for groceries. Daddy handled a little bit of everything, but I didn%u2019t know anything about paying for groceries. But she%u2019d send us to the store for her, and this one particular day it was to buy%u2014and Daddy had a delivery guy%u2014a man that--. People didn%u2019t have cars.
BB: Dray%u2014dray boy, is that what they called him?
BH: Uh-huh, yeah, and he would deliver the groceries to the home if it was more than they could carry home with them. Well, this particular day, my cousin Bob and I went in, and we were to buy her a quarter bag of flour. So, we ordered it, and it was going to be delivered. When they gave us the change back, it was very obvious to us that they had charged us more than a quarter for that bag of flour. So, I found out Daddy was just up a couple doors up the road at the barbershop. I marched in there and I said, %u201CDaddy, we have been cheated. They cheated us down there,%u201D and I told him what happened. Well, they all%u2014he and all the men started laughing because a quarter bag of flour didn%u2019t mean that it cost twenty-five cents. It was a twenty-five pound bag of flour! [Everybody laughed]. That was another experience that stood out in my mind.
I learned%u2014to let you know about the traffic, I learned to ride my bike and skate out in the road in front of his store. That%u2019s where I learned to do all that stuff, and we did it. We just rode our bikes and skated up and down the road all the time.
One of the things that, I think, that stands out in my mind, was the people. Everybody knew each other; it was like one big, happy family. Everybody loved each other. You know, there was no hatred or any classes. You didn%u2019t consider classes. You didn%u2019t consider classes; it was just like everybody was just%u2014oneness, and everybody%u2019s door was open to you. You were just welcome any time, and I don%u2019t think anybody ever locked their doors. You know, I never know of any doors ever being locked.
He had a%u2014what I think, a unique part of his business%u2014he ground his own corn meal. There was a warehouse out in the back. Richard, would you get that, that%u2019s hanging up in there in the kitchen? He had a warehouse out in the back, and he had a black man that worked for him. When I started reminiscing about this presentation I was going to do Saturday night, I hadn%u2019t thought about him in a long, long time. Of course he%u2019s dead now. His name was Ed Curry and he just%u2014he just knew his place, and everybody loved Ed. You know, that many years ago, blacks%u2014they were sort of set aside. But Ed just fit right in, and he ground the corn meal. That was his job, to grind the corn meal and bag it up. It was put in bags like this right here.
BB: Oh, yeah.
BH: That%u2019s one of the corn meal bags%u2014ten pounds.
BB: That wasn%u2019t one of the ones you could make a dress out of.
BH: No. No, no, no, no, that was flour sacks.
BB: Right.
BH: That was flour sacks, but this was corn meal bags.
BB: Corn Meal--S.F. Lee. [He read from the label on the bag].
BH: S.F. Lee--that was the name of his grocery--S.F. Lee. Ed would deliver the groceries for people. If he wasn%u2019t busy with the corn meal, he helped out with delivering the groceries. Then of course, there were other people that did that too.
JC: Did y%u2019all do grits as well?
BH: Pardon?
JC: Did he grind for grits as well? %u2018Cause when you grind corn meal it comes off in grit and meal, and it comes off in different%u2026
BH: %u2026He just did%u2014no, he didn%u2019t make any grits, just corn meal.
JC: OK, he didn%u2019t do grits, just the meal?
BH: Just the meal, the corn meal. No, he did not make any grits.
RICHARD HORD: Old cornbread you ate back then was in%u2014you didn%u2019t have biscuits and Bost Bakery and all that.
BH: No, we didn%u2019t have%u2014no, no, no, no. You didn%u2019t go that way. You either made your homemade biscuits or your homemade cornbread. But, all the mill people were Daddy%u2019s customers, and when I got to be a teenager I started working on Saturday. That%u2019s when I learned what hard work was, because it was hard work. You got up an order. They did not have buggies to push around and get an order up; the clerk got every item up, one at a time, and everything had to be weighed. It came loose, except those quarter bags of flour and this corn meal. That was about the only pre-packaged thing that you bought. Even sugar, it would be weighed up, and all the cookies and everything. It was not pre-packaged. They were loose. Beans, I mean dried beans, and all those things. He had his own market. It was in the back of the store, and he really had a reputation for his good meat because people would come up from Shelby here to buy their meats. He would butcher his own beef and pork. He would butcher them himself. He had somebody that did that. [long pause] But, Saturdays was really a big day at the store because the mill employees got paid on Friday, and they as well as the farmers would come into town%u2014they%u2019d come into town on Saturday to buy their week%u2019s supply of whatever, and the mill employees would buy their groceries for the week. It was a real busy day, and a long day because Daddy would stay right there as long as there%u2019s customers. He didn%u2019t have any hours. You just%u2014as long as there%u2019s people there%u2026
JC: %u2026When they got there, and%u2026
BH: %u2026That%u2019s right. He would close up.
JC: How close did y%u2019all live to the store?
BH: It was a little over a mile.
JC: About a mile?
BH: We lived down in the country, a mile or maybe a little more than a mile out in the country.
BB: Did your dad farm any or just ran the store?
BH: He got into farming, big time. He always loved farming. When he died he owned three farms.
BB: Really?
BH: He did. One was%u2014you know where Palm Tree Church is?
BB: Um-hmm.
BH: Well, it came%u2014actually, Daddy had bought this property right here to build he and Mother a house. This farm that faces Palm Tree Church%u2014it came up for sale, and he said when he was a little boy that he would stand on that%u2014that%u2019s where he went to church, and that he would stand on that porch and think, %u201CI%u2019m going to own that farm one day,%u201D and he bought it. It had a house on it that really%u2014they liked, and so they opted to move there rather than build out here. So that%u2019s how we got this property and built here. Then he bought two other farms just across the river here. Of course you have to go way up the country towards where we lived%u2014it was kind of off from where my granddaddy had his farm. He owned these two farms when he died.
JC: What would he grow?
BH: Pardon?
JC: What would he grow--raise?
BH: Oh, cotton%u2014he was into cotton real big when the boll weevil hit. He kept his cows and his pigs that he butchered at the market. He did all that. Then, he had tenant farmers that lived there on the farm. But over here, this farm, I guess it was mostly cotton, wasn%u2019t it? Over here, mostly cotton over here.
BB: The store%u2014was it kind of what would be called in some of the communities, a company store, or he owned the building and everything?
BH: Well, actually, he did not own the building. It was interesting%u2014there was a company store connected to the mill. I don%u2019t know if anybody%u2019s told you about that or not. It was just down the road, but they were never, ever competition. You know, competitive--. Actually, where Daddy%u2019s store sat%u2014it was on%u2014it was mill property, and the mill owned the building. But he rented it from them all those years for fifty dollars, and they never went up on his rent%u2014fifty dollars a month. At one time%u2014have you been through on that side? Yeah, when you went over to Jack Blanton. You know where Shelby Road turns out?
BB: Um-hmm.
BH: OK, that%u2019s where his store sat. That road has been changed.
BB: Oh yeah, well that%u2019s what%u2026
JC: %u2026That%u2019s what he said%u2026
BH: %u2026That%u2019s right%u2026
JC: %u2026that you could come down through the mill.
BH: Yeah, back this side, about the time you got around that curve, you turned off on Shelby Road.
JC: Right.
BH: When the Schencks sold the mill%u2014James probably told you all about that%u2014they tore that store building down. But, to back up, at one time in my younger days, actually, when I started to school%u2014there is a laundromat there. If you saw the laundromat on the left%u2014if you look at that side of that building, it%u2019s really rough. When Daddy owned the store it was all connected and it was two separate buildings. He had a caf? on one side and the grocery store on the other side. Then, when I was about ten or twelve years old the store burned, and the company built it back. The Schencks built it back and they didn%u2019t connect the two buildings because of the fire hazard. [Telephone rang].
BB: That%u2019s what I was thinking%u2014that building where the washerette--the laundry is, wasn%u2019t always there.
BH: No. No, no, no. Actually, what it was%u2014now, later%u2014my daddy owned that building too. He owned that, but he didn%u2019t own his store building.
BB: Oh, OK.
BH: Yeah. But, my brother had an appliance shop there. He sold appliances and serviced them, and put the laundry in. He did the%u2014the appliance shop was on one side and he started out with the laundry on the other side. But then, after Daddy%u2019s death the property, of course, was divided. No, my brother had bought that from Mother. Well, it%u2019s a long story. After my daddy died in %u201963, and after he died, Mother had too much stuff. He owned houses on the other side he%u2019d bought when Cleveland Mills started selling their houses off. He bought a lot of houses and rented them, and it was just overwhelming for Mother with all that stuff. So, she started getting rid of it, and she gave us the farms over here and that building over here. Over there, the children--. My brother, he was using it, so he bought my sister and my part of that building. Then, when he died, it was in his children%u2019s hands, and then they sold it, so it%u2019s changed hands. But, Daddy was just%u2014he believed in letting your money work for you. He never did have a lot of money in cash, I don%u2019t think, but he invested it.
JC: He invested it.
BH: Yeah, he invested it.
JC: Entrepreneurial kind of%u2026
BH: %u2026Right, he was%u2026
JC: %u2026getting something going.
BH: Yeah, he would get%u2014he would get--yeah.
JC: So, you said that the company store and his store didn%u2019t compete, but was there different%u2014were there differences between what they offered to the community? Did he have things that were--?
BH: The company store had a dry goods store%u2014it was about anything you wanted over there at the company store. They had%u2014they sold clothes and cloth, you know, just a lot of things that Daddy didn%u2019t%u2026
RH: %u2026They sold furniture, too.
BH: Yeah, they had some furniture. They had a little bit of everything. His was mostly%u2014he had a few dry goods, and groceries, and the meat market. Then, when people started getting electricity%u2014you know, in my early days, we didn%u2019t have electricity where I lived%u2014where we lived. There was no power up there. Cleveland Mills and Duke [Energy Company] actually, eventually Cleveland Mills%u2014they had their own power plant. You probably know that.
BB: Oh yeah.
BH: They ran power up to where we lived, and then people up above Casar started getting power, and that was maybe Duke, I would think. He had the franchise for Kelvinator refrigerators. During that time, you didn%u2019t even call them %u201Crefrigerators.%u201D You called them %u201CKelvinators%u201D because that%u2019s all you could buy is a Kelvinator.
BB: I remember that.
JC: I was telling earlier, when Mr. Blanton mentioned that, where my mama%u2019s family is from, Robeson County, there was a plant that made them.
BH: Made Kelvinators?
JC: Kelvinators, yeah. So, nobody ever calls it %u201Crefrigerator.%u201D It%u2019s always %u201CKelvinator.%u201D
BH: That%u2019s right.
JC: [Laughed].
BH: That%u2019s exactly right. But, I%u2019ve got to tell you something else, too. But before I tell you that, I%u2019ll%u2014anyway, he had a%u2014his brother-in-law worked for him, my mother%u2019s sister%u2019s husband. Actually he wound up%u2014this used to be his business. He branched out on his own, but he worked for Daddy for a long time. He was the person that would go out and sell Kelvinators%u2014up in the country, you know, and I%u2019d go with him, all up around Casar. I was always wanting to drive. Where we lived, I would back%u2014get the car. I mean, I was just a kid, and I%u2019d get out there and play with that car. You know, backing and pulling up, and backing and pulling up--. So, when Jody started going up in the%u2014it was like mountains to me, selling those refrigerators, those Kelvinators. I%u2019d go with him. He would put me behind that steering wheel and let me drive. I could barely see out! [Laughed] I would be scared to death when we%u2019d start around those horseshoe curves, you know. But, I%u2019d think, %u201CIf Jody thinks I can do it, I guess I can do it,%u201D and here I%u2019d go driving, just barely able to see out over the%u2014over the steering wheel. But anyway, what I wanted to tell you%u2014I didn%u2019t mention about the Kelvinators Saturday night. This girl came up to me and she said, %u201CI%u2019ve got to tell you something.%u201D She said in 1942, during World War II, her mom and dad needed a refrigerator, and said, %u201CThey went to your daddy%u201D%u2014of course, they didn%u2019t make them during the war. She said, %u201CThey went to your daddy and he said%u201D%u2014she said, %u201CI don%u2019t know where he got them %u2018cause they was down in the basement covered up. He said, %u2018I have two, but I%u2019ll sell you one of these, but just don%u2019t let anybody know it %u2018cause I don%u2019t have any more to sell.%u2019%u201D She said that thing is still running in their house today.
JC: What?
BB: And he died in %u201963?
BH: %u201962%u2014she got it in 1962. 1942.
JC: %u201942.
BH: 1942.
JC: A 1942 Kelvinator%u2026
BH: %u2026still running.
BB: My gosh, unreal.
BH: But, you know something? When the war was over%u2014now, Richard and I got married during World War II, and we couldn%u2019t buy%u2014we couldn%u2019t buy one. Daddy didn%u2019t have one then because we did not have one. We got an icebox. When the war was over and he started getting them, he gave us one. It was just a little refrigerator, not much wider than that television, was it, Richard? That little Kelvinator refrigerator Daddy gave us? You know, not very tall--. Well, when we built out here in %u201956%u2014that%u2019s how long we%u2019ve been here, we got a bigger refrigerator. And a guy that ran a little place, a business on%u2014going out on Shelby Road%u2014 bought it. He bought that little one. He said, %u201CThat%u2019s just what I need to keep drinks and stuff in.%u201D And we sold it to him for something. Then, when he died%u2014I don%u2019t know how many years ago that%u2019s been%u2014his son called us and said, %u201CThat refrigerator that my dad got from you all is still running, and I want to give it back to you.%u201D He gave it back to us, and our daughter and son-in-law has a horse farm, and we gave it to them to put in their barn. It ran for years and years, up until a few years ago.
JC: Wow.
BH: I think the only reason it quit--they quit defrosting it. They were not self-defrosting.
JC: Right.
BH: You had to defrost them. If they had kept defrosting it, I guarantee you it would still have been running. They just don%u2019t make appliances or anything%u2026
JC: %u2026That run like that any more, huh-uh. Usually, as soon as the warranty is up, you can keep it.
BH: That%u2019s right. They want to sell another one. They got to sell another one, but they were really made to last. I don%u2019t know, I%u2019m not sure that that was much information that%u2014the kind of stuff you need, but--.
JC: No, I think all of this speaks to what life was like at that time, and I think that%u2019s part of what they%u2019re trying to figure out. You know, how%u2014what was life in the communities--?
BH: Well, it was much simpler, I%u2019ll tell you that. It was much simpler, and I studied by a lamp when I first started to school. But I%u2019ll tell you this%u2014there was a little one-room school in Lawndale. Has somebody mentioned that?
JC: From first through third?
BH: No, first and second grades.
JC: First and second. OK.
BH: A little one-room school. When I started to school, I would be supposed to catch the school bus and go to Piedmont. This school down here was for the village kids. You know, they didn%u2019t go to Piedmont.
JC: Across the river from here.
BH: Yeah, across the river. I guess the ones on%u2014yeah, the ones on this side went to Piedmont. You went to Piedmont--. Yeah, on that%u2026
JC: Mr. Blanton mentioned that.
BH: That%u2019s right. Did he? OK. So, when I got old enough to go to school, Daddy said I was too young to put on that school bus. So, he brought me down here to school, to the little two-room school. He%u2019d drop me off when he came to work. That%u2019s where I went the first and second grade. But what I remember, all of the kids would walk home for lunch. You know, they%u2019d go home to eat their lunch, and at that time, Daddy had the caf?, and I%u2019d walk down to the caf? to get my lunch. So that%u2019s what%u2014and then you went back to school.
JC: Which is kind of, you know, you%u2019re different but the same, in many ways.
BH: Uh-huh, yeah.
JC: What kind of stuff would they have in the caf?? What kind of food was--?
BH: Anything you wanted. Sandwiches and, I guess they served some plate lunches, too. But somebody else ran the caf? part for him. But another thing I can remember%u2014the guy that ran it, he was kind of gruff, I thought. I was afraid of him. I really was shy with him. I just didn%u2019t want to have much dealings with him. One of the things I can remember%u2014if he did not ask me what I wanted%u2014if he was busy and wouldn%u2019t ask me what I want, I%u2019d go back to school without lunch. I would not push myself in there and make sure I got my food. I was just that way with him, but then later on, after I got to be an adult and he was still around, I%u2019d look at him and I%u2019d think, %u201CAh, you know, I don%u2019t know why I was,%u201D but that was the impression he made on me at that time, when I was six years old.
JC: Were there other cafes in town?
BH: Not at that time, I don%u2019t think.
JC: Was that about the only one?
BH: Not at that time, I don%u2019t think.
JC: You mentioned earlier that your daddy, after they started selling off the mill houses, that he bought some of them?
BH: He did.
JC: If people didn%u2019t want to buy their houses, he had the opportunity to?
BH: Yeah, uh-huh, and I tell you what one did. They sold it to Daddy. They had bought it%u2014they had bought the house, and then came to Daddy and wanted to sell it to him. He bought it, and they lived right on there until they died, renting it.
JC: Huh.
BH: They did, the Thackersons. You know the Thackersons?
RH: In 1964, when they passed the Civil Rights Act, you know, the mill had to sell all the houses, or rent them to blacks. If a black wanted to rent one, you had to rent to them.
BB: So, that was in %u201964 when they started selling them?
RH: Yeah.
BH: Richard, it was before that. I%u2019m sorry to contradict him because my daddy died in %u201963, and he owned mill houses then. They%u2019d started selling them off before that.
RH: Well, they had started selling them. I%u2019m talking about when the Civil Rights Act%u2014you had%u2014if blacks wanted to rent %u2018em, you had to rent%u2026
BH: %u2026But they had already sold them off. They had already%u2014I don%u2019t know when it was because he owned a good%u2014several houses.
BB: Maybe %u201960 or somewhere along in there?
BH: Pardon?
BB: Maybe %u201960?
BH: Maybe so, because he owned several, uh-huh.
RH: In %u201964, you had to rent to ever who wanted to rent one, whether they%u2019s black or white.
BH: And they didn%u2019t sell them all off at one time.
JC: They sold them in stages?
BH: Yeah, it was over a period of time that they sold them, and the people that lived there had the option to buy them.
BB: Do you remember when the power%u2014you were able to get power?
BH: When the what?
BB: You were able to get electricity?
BH: In our house?
BB: Yeah.
BH: Yeah, I do. I was probably in about, probably the fourth or fifth grade.
BB: Really?
BH: Um-hmm. When we finally%u2014I remember studying by a lamp, and then we got a radio, you know.
BB: Well, now that was%u2014you were still in the country?
BH: Oh, we still%u2014we lived up there as long%u2014it was after I was married that Daddy bought this farm that I%u2019ve told you about. We lived up there%u2014actually, it was near my granddaddy%u2014a part of my granddaddy%u2019s farm. He built a house on part of my granddaddy%u2019s farm up Hicks Hill Road, and we lived there and they kept that house all--. Then, when Daddy moved up%u2014when Mother and Daddy%u2014I was already married. Then, my brother moved in the house that we had lived in, he and his family, and lived there until he built a house, and then Mother rented it. She kept it and rented it for many years.
JC: You mentioned that your daddy had tenants?
BH: He did.
JC: Like sharecroppers.
BH: Right, he did.
JC: Did they use his store as almost like a sharecropper%u2019s%u2014the company store for sharecroppers?
BH: Yeah, he ran a lot of farmers.
JC: Right.
BH: Daddy ran a lot of farmers.
JC: So, he had seed and everything that they could purchase?
BH: Oh yeah, yeah, he ran a lot of farmers. There was something that probably might be of interest%u2014the way he%u2014he was really everybody%u2019s friend. This Saturday night made me realize that all over%u2014all afresh, because people were just coming to me afterwards, talking to me about him. You know, sharing their memories about %u201CHow we would have gone hungry as a family.%u201D He charged%u2014he had a big charge account. One man said, %u201CI worked for him and he%u2019s the best friend I ever had.%u201D Another guy said, %u201CYou know, he was just God to those people over there.%u201D He really was%u2014he was just their friend. He would%u2014he had tickets, a book of tickets. That%u2019s what he charged on.
JC: Um-hmm.
BH: [Sound of shuffling papers]. I still have those tickets. He would%u2014people would start charging, and he%u2019d let %u2018em run up a humongous bill. He would say, %u201CYou know, you%u2019re just going to have to start paying cash. I just can%u2019t charge to you any more.%u201D Well, they would start paying cash, and eventually they%u2019d start a new account. I%u2019ll show you what he did%u2014it%u2019s interesting. I had these out not long ago. I%u2019ll show you a bunch.
JC: OK.
BH: [Pause while charge tickets were gathered]. Now you don%u2019t know these people, but this is all one family. This is what he would do%u2014when they%u2019d%u2014now this was %u201954, that%u2019s %u201954, and he would%u2014when he would say, %u201CYou%u2019re going to start paying cash,%u201D he%u2019d run a tape and he%u2019d put them together. Then%u2014well, no, here%u2019s one %u201953, or there%u2019s%u2014the rats have been in this one. This one%u2019s %u201953, and they%u2019d charge, you know, they%u2019d pay cash a while and then they%u2019d start charging again. See, now look%u2014four hundred and sixty-five dollars was a lot of money back then.
BB: Um-hmm.
BH: And what%u2019s that one?
JC: It%u2019s eighty-four, eighty-four seventy-five. They actually%u2014I think they paid a little bit on it.
BH: All right. Now this is all one family. Here%u2019s another one for four hundred and sixty-nine dollars. That%u2019s all the same family, and here%u2019s one for three hundred thirty-four dollars.
BB: Golly. Umm.
BH: Now, look here%u2026
BB: %u2026Same family?...
BH: %u2026Same family. I have said through the years%u2014I have told my children, %u201CThere%u2019s families in Lawndale that my daddy raised.%u201D
BB: Oh, yeah.
BH: He absolutely raised them, and this is one of them. Now here%u2019s another one--this is the same family. See right here%u2014this one%u2019s nine hundred dollars. The dates are off of the--. This is a%u2026
BB: %u2026Some of those I could see the date%u2026
BH: %u2026Now, I have a box full of these tickets in there. I have a box full.
BB: You%u2019re kidding. No telling what it would have been worth if they had%u2026
BH: %u2026G.W. Clay%u2014you know G.W. Clay, don%u2019t you?
BB: I%u2019ve heard%u2014George?
BH: George Clay, yeah. George used to work for Daddy.
BB: Oh, really?
BH: He did. His daddy was a Methodist minister and they lived here, and he worked for Daddy. Every time I%u2019d see George, he%u2019d say, %u201CBetty, I just think about all those days. If your daddy had all the money that was owing to him, none of his family would ever had to have worked any more.%u201D [Laughed].
BB: That%u2019s probably right [laughed].
BH: But, I have a box full of these, tickets just like that.
JC: Wow.
BH: But that%u2019s the way he operated.
BB: Yeah.
JC: Yeah, my grandmother and my mother grew up really, really poor. When her mama died, they went to the doctor in town%u2014they would bring chickens and stuff. When it started moving forward to cash and you couldn%u2019t do that as much, my mama and her brother and sister went to the doctor, and it was like, %u201CWe know Mama owed you money.%u201D You know, she would get people%u2014she couldn%u2019t read and write, but she would get people to keep a tab%u2014her children. The doctor was like, %u201CShe doesn%u2019t owe me nothing.%u201D It was like, %u201CMs. Lula didn%u2019t owe me nothing. What are you talking about?%u201D
BH: Yeah.
JC: It was hundreds of dollars, I%u2019m sure. Without people, Mama felt the same way%u2014without certain people helping them out%u2026
BH: %u2026She couldn%u2019t have made it.
JC: They wouldn%u2019t have made it without people buying them groceries, sometimes without the doctor and stuff like that%u2026
BH: %u2026And there wasn%u2019t any Social Service back then%u2014welfare.
JC: No.
BH: One of the things that that reminded me%u2014my Grandma Lee was a good example. They grew everything%u2014they lived on the farm and they%u2014she grew%u2014they grew, you know they--. But she would bring her butter, and her eggs, and things to the store to exchange them for her coffee and things that she couldn%u2019t--. Chickens%u2014Daddy had a chicken coop out back, and people would buy their live chickens. But, she was one of the people, and other people did this%u2014the country people, they%u2019d bring their stuff and trade it out, and things that they couldn%u2019t grow. Usually, Grandma would get a due bill. She would never, ever use up all%u2014what she brought was more than what she took home, and she would get a due bill. They didn%u2019t give cash, but a due bill, and when she died she still had due bills to the store.
JC: She could have gone on and got more stuff?
BH: Oh, yeah.
JC: Yeah. Wow.
BH: I guess she got what she wanted, though, or what she thought she needed.
JC: So, did he do that barter system with people?
BH: Yeah.
JC: So, would he sell the%u2014if they brought him eggs%u2026
BH: %u2026Oh, yeah, he sold them%u2026
JC: %u2026would he sell the eggs?
BH: Oh, yeah. He would sell the eggs and the butter, the homemade butter. Yeah, he sold it.
JC: Wow.
BH: So, yeah, you could come to the store and buy it, sure.
BB: Restrictions weren%u2019t as much back then.
BH: No, no,no,no,no. Not at all. Not at all.
JC: It sounds like a better system to me, in many ways, than what we%u2019ve got now, %u2018cause I%u2019d at least be able to eat if I was broke.
BH: Yeah, you could take to the store and they%u2019d figure up what it was worth, and you could trade it out.
JC: So would he buy produce off people to sell produce stuff or would he grow produce?
BH: No, he didn%u2019t grow his own produce.
JC: He didn%u2019t grow it?
BH: No, he did not grow his own produce, but there would be some produce trucks that would come around. He didn%u2019t rely on the farmers for all of that. I remember he went to Shelby every week and got fresh fish. I think maybe Thursday was his fish day that he went and got%u2014Beam%u2019s? Beam%u2019s? Wasn%u2019t it Beam%u2019s down there on Lafayette Street?
BB: Right.
BH: That%u2019s where he got%u2026
BB: %u2026D.A. Beam.
BH: D.A. Beam, that%u2019s right. That%u2019s where he went to get his fish.
JC: That makes sense %u2018cause Fridays, people eat a lot of fish.
BH: Yeah, and I think Thursday was when he would get his fresh fish. He had a thing%u2014he iced them down. There%u2019d be ice on them. That%u2019s the way he kept them. His gas pump out front%u2014he sold gas, and it was a hand pump. I mean one that you had to pump up and use a nozzle. I remember that. And we had cows. He had a dairy. He sold milk. I forgot about that. We didn%u2019t really have a dairy, but we had milking cows, and that%u2019s what%u2014that was Mother%u2019s contribution. She milked the cows and bottled the milk. They were glass%u2014you know what they looked like? Do you know what they looked like?
JC: Um-hmm.
BH: OK, I have some of those. She bottled the milk and Daddy sold milk. He had a milk route here in Lawndale. They would deliver the milk to the doors. You would deliver the milk and set it on the porch, and they%u2019d set the bottles from yesterday out, and you%u2019d pick up the%u2014recycle, you know, they were glass bottles and you--. Everybody had a standing order of how much milk they wanted daily.
JC: My granddaddy was a milkman for a while.
BH: Did he?
JC: Yeah, he did that for a while before they moved up to Raleigh.
BH: OK. He had a milk route, so--. Of course, they didn%u2019t grade that. They didn%u2019t%u2014milk wasn%u2019t pasteurized then. Mother%u2014we were never graded%u2014Mother took care of washing those bottles, and scalding them, and getting them sterilized at home. Then, you put a stopper in it, you know. When I%u2014before we got electricity, we just relied on keeping our milk cold at the store. We%u2019d just get it as we needed it. I remember, I was%u2014I don%u2019t know%u2014I maybe was in the third grade then. We had been somewhere one day, and stopped to get our milk from the store, and I ran in to get it. When I came out, I stumped my toe and fell on that glass of milk, and I%u2014that%u2019s that scar right there. I split my hand open on that--.
JC: Took it right into the ground.
BH: It just went right down, uh-huh, and the bottle cut it. What I remember%u2014we had a doctor here, and I had to wait; he was delivering a baby. I had to wait %u2018til he got that baby delivered, at home, at somebody%u2019s home%u2026
BB:%u2026Before he could sew%u2026
BH: %u2026before he could sew my hand up.
JC: You had to sit there and bleed.
BH: It was a different world.
JC: Yeah.
BH: It was a different world.
BB: Was that%u2014didn%u2019t somebody tell us about the first doctor here was Dr. Grigg?
BH: Dr. Grigg was the first doctor. This was not Dr. Grigg, though. There was a Dr. Sherrill here, and this was Dr. Sherrill. He had an office.
BB: I wanted to ask something, going back to those bills. What do you think was the biggest thing a person would have been charging that would have made that bill as high as it is? Would they%u2014he had gas, you say%u2026
BH: %u2026Yeah%u2026
BB: %u2026but back then it wasn%u2019t that much.
BH: I don%u2019t think these people had cars. They didn%u2019t have cars.
BB: So it would have probably been groceries.
BH: Groceries. It was groceries. Yeah, it was groceries. He fed families. He absolutely fed families. I guess it tells here what it is%u2014potatoes%u2026
JC: %u2026Everything. I looked through %u2026
BH: %u2026soap. But this is what he would do. He had a little filing thing that you turn%u2014it turned down on these%u2014he%u2019d keep it. Cake, tissue, eggs, peas, shampoo, rice, butter--. There%u2019s a balance of%u2014carried forward four hundred and two dollars. Milk, cheese--. Milk%u2014a quarter. Cheese%u2014thirty-five cents.
BB: That%u2019s a lot of charging, isn%u2019t it, to come up%u2026
JC: %u2026Yeah, it%u2019s%u2026
BB: %u2026I expect those would amount to be%u2026
BH: %u2026Chops%u2014a dollar. Flea powder%u2014thirty-five cents.
JC: Would he loan people money?
BH: He did. He did loan people money. I tell you what. I had one lady to come to me and say her son was killed in World War II, and she came to me and said, %u201CI won%u2019t ever forget your dad. The last time I saw my son alive, he was fixing to be shipped overseas, and I didn%u2019t have the money to go see him, and I came and borrowed the money from your dad to go see him.%u201D She said, %u201CThat%u2019s the last time I saw him alive.%u201D
BB: Is that right?
BH: But, I%u2019ll have to tell you a funny story. This is something else I remember. This will lead to that funny story. One of the things%u2014the guys that worked in the mill all week long, you know what they did on the weekend?
BB: Got drunk? [laughed] JC: Heck, yeah.
BH: They did.
JC: I might would have, too, I think
BH: They did, but the wife was stuck at home with the kids.
JC: Right.
BH: This one guy that just lived right up the road from Daddy--. I didn%u2019t know about this, but later on he got his religion. He came%u2014he was a member of our church. When he got to be a shut-in%u2014we had a tape at that time. It was this big old thing we took%u2014the recording, the church recordings were on, you know, and we moved it around to the shut-in%u2019s house. I remember taking it to this house, and his wife was really a jolly person and loved to laugh. She said, %u201CI%u2019ve got to tell you something about your dad.%u201D She said, %u201COne day%u2014it was one Saturday%u2014Frank was out and gone, and I didn%u2019t know where he was. I was here with all these kids.%u201D You know that%u2019s when they did their housework and everything. She said, %u201CYour daddy came knocking at the door one day, and he said, %u2018Jettie, I just want to tell you that I got%u2019--. He had a phone at the store. He said, %u2018I want to tell you the jail called, and Frank has been arrested. He%u2019s in jail, but just don%u2019t you worry.%u2019 They%u2019d keep them so long, you know. And he said, %u2018When they%u2019ll let him out, I%u2019m going to go get him, and I%u2019m going to bring him home.%u2019 She said, %u201CJust leave him down there and let him rot.%u201D She told me this. She said Daddy said, %u201CNo, you don%u2019t want to do that, Jettie. I%u2019ll go get him and I%u2019ll bring him home.%u201D So, she said when Daddy let him out at the front door, he threw his hat in the door and said, %u201CJettie, do you know what kind of bird that can%u2019t fly? You know what kind of bird there is that can%u2019t fly?%u201D And I don%u2019t know what she said, but he said, %u201CIt%u2019s a jail-bird.%u201D [All laughed]. Anyway, she would just laugh about that, but it wasn%u2019t funny to Frank at that time. He did not like for Jettie to tell that on him. But that%u2019s what they did. That%u2019s what the guys did. They would get drunk on the weekend.
JC: So, would they hang around the houses or would they run through town?
BH: They%u2019d hang around the store. They%u2019d hang around on the streets%u2026
JC: %u2026Hang around the stores?
BH: Yeah, and I guess, I guess, or on the street. They%u2019d just%u2014I don%u2019t know where all they%u2019d stay. I have no idea, but I would say%u2014I remember that.
JC: Mr. Blanton mentioned there used to be a curfew in town of nine o%u2019clock.
BH: Yeah, yeah.
JC: I guess the curfew%u2014was it in force?
BH: I guess. And evidently%u2014I don%u2019t know where Frank had got arrested. I have no idea, but they didn%u2019t have a car. But, you know, we had a bus line in Lawndale. Did he tell you about the bus line?
JC: You%u2019re talking about the Hunt family?
BH: Yeah, the Hunts, that ran a bus to Shelby. That%u2019s how everybody went to Shelby.
BB: Did the Casar boys come down and get drunk with the Lawndale boys?
BH: Probably%u2014Richard might know more about that. I don%u2019t know.
RH: Not as much. Lawndale wouldn%u2019t go to Casar much. A lot of %u2018em go to Cherryville. A lot of %u2018em get in jail over in Cherryville [chuckled].
BH: Yeah, they did. A lot of these Lawndale boys had girlfriends at Cherryville, and a lot of them married Cherryville girls.
BB: Oh, really?
BH: They did, and some of the marriages lasted, and some of them didn%u2019t. They were John%u2014John Smawley and Jo. You know, she was from Cherryville.
JC: Were there a lot%u2014I mean, you don%u2019t hear everybody wants to talk about the past as no bad ever happened, but it seems like there were a lot of broken marriages back in these days%u2026
BH: %u2026Yeah, there was%u2026
JC: %u2026that didn%u2019t last. Is that because the hard conditions of working in the mill and then drinking on weekends?
BH: Different things. It might be an affair, you know. It just might be an affair. I remember that.
JC: %u2018Cause you hear there weren%u2019t any divorces, but the more and more I hear, there seems to be quite a few divorces going on back years ago.
BH: Oh, yeah, there was. And, there was good and bad, too. Most people%u2014they don%u2019t bring out the bad. I remember this Noah Roper. Did you ever get one of his--?
JC: I heard that%u2014oh, yeah, I read it. I read it last night or yesterday; I read it.
BH: Anyway, when Noah interviewed me, I told him some of the things I remember, I don%u2019t know if they%u2019re quotable or not, but it was about the drunks. They were just drunk, and they%u2019d fight. Some of them, the Pearsons, you know, and some of them were just fighting people. They%u2019d like to get drunk and fight.
JC: Mr. Blanton mentioned that Casar boys got caught here. It was like a lot of times they%u2019d fight with them, and if they were up in Casar they%u2019d fight.
BH: Yeah.
JC: He said that there was kind of this, you know--.
BH: Yeah, there was a rivalry%u2014a rivalry there, yeah. But it was quite different. It saddens me the way our town has changed because the new people%u2014as the people die out and new ownerships come in, they don%u2019t have any interest in the town. In the past, everybody loved this place. It was just home, and everybody was%u2014but that%u2019s changed a lot and will change more.
JC: Do you think it would be better if there was closer industry, and things that%u2026
BH: %u2026Yeah%u2026
JC: %u2026jobs that were%u2026
BH: %u2026Oh, yeah%u2026
JC: %u2026actually close to town. It seems like you have to drive out to get to anything. What do people here%u2014where do they work now?
BH: Shelby%u2014a lot of them go into Shelby to work. And some of them, I have no%u2014I don%u2019t have a clue. I know%u2026
RH: %u2026A few of them still work at Pittsburgh, just a very few.
BH: Yeah, a few of them still do. A young man that just bought some property just right here, up from us%u2014he and his wife%u2014the people that owned it died and he bought it. They work at the Wal-Mart distribution center. They both work there. But there%u2019s nothing here.
JC: Do you have hopes for the future?
BH: The hope that I can see that%u2014we%u2019re going to get a lake up here. Has anybody mentioned that to you?
JC: Huh-uh.
BH: Yeah, it%u2019s in the last stages of the environmental%u2014you%u2019ve read about it, I%u2019m sure, haven%u2019t you?
BB: Yeah, I%u2019ve read about them discussing it, but they%u2014it is a ( ) deal?
BH: It is going to happen. They%u2019re in the last%u2014they%u2019ve already%u2014I understand some property has already been%u2026
BB: %u2026Oh, OK%u2026
BH: %u2026bought up, is what we%u2019ve been told.
BB: Is it going to be near the?...
BH: %u2026It%u2019s just a mile from us up the road%u2026
BB: %u2026right up past the%u2026
BH: %u2026Yeah.
JC: Is it going to be supply for Shelby?
BH: No. We have a water plant just about a mile up the road, and it furnishes all of Cleveland County except Shelby. It started out the Lawndale Water Plant, or Upper Cleveland Water Plant is what it started out. But, it has branched--it furnishes water all the way south%u2014north, south, east and west now.
RH: Our son-in-law lives out from Earl and he gets his water from here.
BH: Yeah.
JC: Wow.
BH: Well, Betsy and Mark get it, too. They live between Cherryville and Kings Mountain. But they%u2019re%u2014our other daughter, but they%u2019re in Cleveland County and they get this water.
BB: I get it up at the homeplace in Cliffside. After several years, there were so many up there that wanted it. They had come around in %u201985%u2014it doesn%u2019t seem like it%u2019s been that long. They came around and wanted to know%u2014my brother was living there at the time, and still living there. There was a fifty-dollar deposit back then, and they would guarantee you that you would get water to the meter. Now, from the meter to the house%u2026
BH: %u2026Yeah, you have to do your own.
BB: You have to do your own, but they said it wouldn%u2019t cost any more. It was a matter of when it was approved and they brought it in, and they brought it in. My sister was living there after my brother died about %u201995 or %u201996, maybe%u2014they ran the water. It didn%u2019t cost me another penny except to run it to the house.
BH: You paid the fifty dollars. Another thing%u2014we%u2019re on the first phase of sewer here. Have you been told that?
JC: Huh-uh.
BH: Badly, badly needed. One of the things that%u2019s been so hard on this town%u2014there%u2019s some businesses across the river, the laundromat, the fire department, the town hall, and about a half a dozen houses that was on that mill sewer. The town has maintained that sewer at a big, big expense. It%u2019s just about broke the town up. How much is it, Richard, a month for sewer? Two thousand dollars a month, or three? It%u2019s a big amount.
JC: Is it because it%u2019s so old?
BH: No, it%u2019s not that old. It%u2019s just to get somebody to do it%u2014to hire somebody to come in. It has to be tested daily, you see.
JC: Right.
BH: So, they got a grant%u2014about a million dollars. The first phase of the sewer is supposed to be completed next month, and it will get all these people off of that mill sewer that they have maintained.
JC: Put them on county?
BH: Put them on the town. They%u2019re getting it from Shelby. It will be Shelby.
JC: Right.
BH: Yeah.
JC: Instead of splitting them off and having to pay for this, and working with that, as well%u2014consolidating it all down.
BH: Well, it%u2019s Shelby sewer. It already came to Burns School, so they%u2019ve run it from Burns School and they%u2019re having to come across the river with it. So this will help them because they will pay their sewer bill to Shelby, just like we pay our gas bill to Shelby. We have city gas, but it%u2019s Shelby.
JC: But, it will free up money for the town.
BH: It will free the town of their expense, and then we%u2019ll be able to branch out with that sewer as money comes available. Like the Laundromat over there%u2014it had been for sale for a long time. Who wanted it, with the sewer system conditions like they were? But once that sewer line got%u2014they knew it was going to happen%u2014it sold. These houses%u2014some of the houses were mill-owned, and all the rest of the houses had their own sewer system, as they put in bathrooms and stuff. But, some of these were mill-owned houses that were still on it.
BB: How many houses do you say were on it?
BH: About six.
BB: Six? Wonder why the others didn%u2019t get on it at some point in time?
BH: I don%u2019t know. I don%u2019t know. I%u2019m sure this is something the mill handled.
BB: Because that was actually the area for the village, right?
BH: Uh-huh, yeah.
BB: On that side of the river.
BH: Um-hmm. Yeah. You know, I don%u2019t know of anything else%u2026
RH: %u2026All of them had re-done their houses and they put in septic tanks.
BH: Yeah, if they had room. Now, I think these that are hooked up%u2014there%u2019s not room for a septic tank.
JC: OK. So, they went ahead and%u2026
BH: %u2026Uh-huh, they hooked up to the mill--.
JC: What are plans? I mean, just curious about the town and economic development for the future, and possible, like cafes and stuff, and maybe, like the mill taking advantage of the river and other%u2026
BH: %u2026You know what? That is one thing I have always%u2014I have said this so many times, that I%u2019m not a smart person, but it seems that this river running right through town could be utilized for something to make the town grow. And the mill, you see, that%u2019s why the mill built there, because it%u2019s right on the river.
JC: Right.
BH: It seems to me that somewhere that%u2014that could be--.
JC: A lot of places%u2014I%u2019m just thinking%u2014a lot of the mills%u2014Alamance County, Orange County, have been turned into condos. Durham, and the old tobacco warehouses, and tobacco factories there, have all been turned into businesses and stuff like that. I was just curious as to how%u2026
BH: %u2026We have been told that there have been people that%u2019s tried to buy that, and offered a million dollars, and they%u2019re wanting two. But, they%u2019ve been offered a million. They went in there%u2014these people%u2014I don%u2019t know if you know--. Richard can tell you more about this. There were Mexicans that came in and bought it the last time.
BB: Oh, really?
JC: I heard this; maybe you%u2019ve mentioned it. But I don%u2019t know%u2026
BH: %u2026And got all of this grant money and tax breaks, and all this stuff. Probably didn%u2019t have to spend anything when they came in here and did it, and stayed a while and shut it down, and they have stripped that mill of everything and sold it off.
JC: All the wood?
BH: All the plumbing and everything. It%u2019s stripped down. What all have they taken out, Richard?
RH: Everything they are--it%u2019s nothing but just the walls.
JC: They took the flooring, I%u2019m sure.
RH: Yeah, the floors, walls, that%u2019s--. Took all the machinery out. I don%u2019t know what they done with it.
BH: Sold the machinery.
BB: What was the last year that plant ran? Did the plant run after they bought it?
BH: Yeah, it did run a while. Now they were the second people after the Schencks. The first people%u2014he was a%u2014they were out of Spartanburg.
BB: Montgomery.
BH: Montgomery, uh-huh. Now he was a big, big, big-time operator. He%u2019s the one that built the new part where my daddy%u2019s store used to sit. He got the state%u2014and he maybe paid to get that road changed. I believe he said he would, didn%u2019t he?
RH: Yeah.
BH: He%u2019d pay for it himself to get%u2014he would accomplish whatever he wanted to accomplish. He got that road changed and tore that store building down to build a new part of the mill. Then, I think he sort of spent all his money, too!
JC: Which is the case that seems to be repeated.
RH: I think the same thing happened over there that happened at Carolina Freight. When the old man died, and the young boys didn%u2019t want it, they just sold it out and got rid of it.
BB: The old%u2014the original village%u2014I want to be sure I understand this right. The houses and the plant, and where your dad%u2019s store was%u2014that was primarily the mill property?
BH: Uh-huh.
BB: Anything on this side of the river%u2026
BH: %u2026Was not%u2026
BB: %u2026even though there%u2019s a couple of the houses that look like mill houses%u2026
BH: %u2026They were not%u2026
BB: %u2026they were not mill houses. You know the ones I%u2019m talking about, right close to the bridge?
BH: Yeah, yeah. No they were not.
BB: They were not?
JC: So they were rental houses?
BH: No, they%u2014no, people owned them. Yeah, people owned them.
BB: They just built them the style of the houses that were across the river .
BH: Yeah. But, no%u2014they did not any%u2014nothing on this%u2026
BB: %u2026None of those over there--. So, really, the mill property was just on the river west, or whatever.
BH: Right. And, another sad thing%u2014the Schencks were really good to this town. They were%u2014you%u2019ve probably heard that.
JC: Over and over, and it%u2019s genuine.
BH: They were really, really good to this town. The Schenks that are living still are%u2014our museum, they support it big-time. They built a Boy Scout hut that%u2019s right%u2014you know where Jim lived%u2014right behind Jim, down the hill.
BB: OK.
BH: It%u2019s a Boy Scout hut. We had a big Boy Scout troop. They still used it until these people sold out. Then, they had all the power turned off. They had the water cut off and the power turned off; pipes froze and burst. It%u2019s just%u2014that%u2019s been a sad thing, to see that Boy Scout hut--.
BB: You know, it makes you wonder if they had done that to the plant%u2014stripping it out, and they%u2019re apparently not coming around any more%u2014it makes you wonder if they%u2019re paying taxes. Somebody needs to be paying taxes on that property.
BH: We checked into that one time, and at the time we checked, we%u2014our historical society really wanted to try to acquire that Boy Scout hut and that property. But we were just hitting our heads against a brick wall. At that time, the taxes were being paid. I don%u2019t know about now. I don%u2019t know.
JC: It just sounds like--it%u2019s frustrating to hear. I%u2019ve heard this repeated over and over and over, not just in Lawndale, but in Shelby and other places, that these plants are emptied out; they%u2019re sold, they%u2019re discarded, and they%u2019re just sitting there. People mourn them, in a way.
BH: It%u2019s like Dover%u2014I would never have thought%u2014would you have ever thought Dover would have closed up?
RH: Eastside%u2014Eastside is the same way.
BB: I figured we would have textile plants forever.
BH: I know.
BB: You see, I worked at one forty-five years.
BH: Where did you work?
BB: Cone, at Cliffside.
BH: Cone?
BB: Uh-huh, and I would have at least %u2026
BH: %u2026But they%u2019re gone. They%u2019re gone.
JC: Everywhere%u2014I mean, there%u2019s a few here and there that we%u2019ve heard about that are making specialty stuff. But, the sad thing to me%u2014the job%u2019s already gone, but the buildings are still there and it%u2019s almost like they taunt you.
BH: Richard, he%u2019ll pass%u2014I tell him he better quit saying this, or not say it to anybody except me. He%u2019ll say, %u201CI%u2019d just like to throw a bomb on that mill and just blow it up.%u201D He can%u2019t stand to see it standing there like that.
RH: It%u2019s falling in%u2014you just as well throw one.
BH: But Richard, you better be careful who you say that to because if that happens, somebody%u2019s going to point a finger at you.
JC: And this one closed in 2002?
BH: I%u2019m not%u2014if you say so%u2014I don%u2019t know.
JC: Wasn%u2019t it recent? This was one of the more recent closures.
BH: Right, yeah. Probably six years.
JC: If that%u2019s the case, then the building is probably in still fairly decent shape compared to some of these that closed in the eighties.
BH: Right. Oh, yeah.
JC: So, something could be done. This is a nice little town. I ride through it%u2014I%u2019ve been in a lot of little towns, especially if this lake is going to come%u2026
BH: %u2026Yeah, well it%u2019s going to come.
JC: It could become a place where%u2014with nice shops, shopping along the river, condos, stuff for people%u2014almost like a place for people to come and relax.
BH: Yeah, it could be, and I think the lake%u2014I think the sewer and the lake are the things that%u2014and I%u2019m not sure that we%u2019ll live to see the lake because that%u2019s a slow go. You don%u2019t just build a lake, and I don%u2019t know that it will happen in our lifetime, but I think sewer and the lake is our only hope. Oh, it%u2019s so different%u2014now Richard was mayor for nineteen years. He had all sorts of support back then, didn%u2019t you? It%u2019s getting hard now to even get people to run for the town board.
JC: Does the town%u2014I%u2019m assuming that it%u2019s aging fast%u2014a lot of folks in town?
BH: Oh yeah, and already, it%u2019s changing. It was, at one time, a retirement town.
JC: Right.
BH: But, so many have died out, and new ownerships have come in. These people, not even the churches, they really are not interested in even getting involved in the church. Or they already have a church in Shelby that they%u2019re going to continue to go to.
JC: Are the churches here still fairly vibrant?
BH: Not as vibrant. Not as vibrant.
JC: Right. Do they help to support anything in town, in church?
BH: The churches, the Lawndale Methodist and the Baptist sponsor the Boy Scout troops jointly. One meets at one church%u2014there are two groups, and one meets at one church and the other group meets at the other church.
BB: So, they%u2019re sponsoring the troops?
BH: Uh-huh, they sponsor the Boy Scout troop.
RH: One thing that hurts a little town like Lawndale%u2014we don%u2019t take in enough revenue to have a town manager. Shelby, Kings Mountain, Boiling Springs do. They pay nearly a hundred thousand dollars per year for one man. He%u2019s going to look after%u2014he%u2019s going to have to look after Shelby, Kings Mountain, or Boiling Springs. If you don%u2019t, you ain%u2019t%u2014he ain%u2019t going to have a job. If we%u2019d get in as a whole%u2014the whole county as a whole, and have one county manager look after the whole county, towns and all, I think we could prosper all over the whole district.
JC: Could three or four of these smaller towns, like Polkville or%u2014I%u2019m not familiar with all the%u2026
BH: %u2026Casar and Fallston%u2026
JC: %u2026Casar or Fallston, yeah%u2014pool their resources and get a manager to manage all those other towns?
BH: I don%u2019t know. Is Lawndale the only%u2014do any of the rest of them have a tax base?
RH: We%u2019re the only one.
BH: The only one that has a tax base.
JC: Yeah. Is there police here?
BH: Did, but they couldn%u2019t afford him; they had to let it go. They always had a policeman. This thing with the sewer%u2014it%u2019s just eat the--. When Richard left the mayor%u2019s office, how much money did you have in the--?
RH: We had over a million dollars.
JC: In the account?
RH: It%u2019s about all gone now.
BH: In escrow, and it%u2019s about all gone now.
JC: So there is a tax base here though?
BH: Yeah, there is a tax base.
JC: So they%u2019ve got money coming in.
BH: Yeah, they%u2019ve got it coming in with the water, but they%u2019re spending more than they%u2019re taking in.
RH: See, the mill closed.
BH: Yeah, the mill took a big bunch. That took a lot of it.
RH: They were paying about three-fourths of the tax.
JC: Why doesn%u2019t the town just levy a huge tax on the mill and tell the people they%u2019re selling it? Hey, look, we%u2019ve got the tax on you; sell it to us.
BH: Maybe, eventually it will happen.
JC: Seize it. The town could seize the mill or something.
BH: We were told that Wal-Mart tried to buy it for a storage%u2026
JC: %u2026a warehouse%u2026
BH: %u2026a warehouse, and the reason that it appealed to them was the high ceilings that they needed%u2026
BB: %u2026to store a lot in there.
BH: Uh-huh, and offered them a million dollars, and they wouldn%u2019t take it%u2014wanted two million.
JC: Well, they said that Double Shoals is up for sale for four hundred and some thousand dollars, and it%u2019s been closed for twenty years? It seems a little excessive, honestly%u2026
BH: %u2026Yeah, it does%u2026
JC: %u2026for something that%u2019s been closed that long.
BH: Yeah, but it%u2019s on the river, too.
JC: It%u2019s on the river. It%u2019s a beautiful spot%u2014it would be great condos or things like that. I think that it%u2019s Preservation North Carolina that has that up for sale.
BH: Yeah, they do.
JC: I just keep thinking there%u2019s a lot in this county that%u2019s beautiful and got a lot of history.
BH: Well, I hope eventually that things will change, turn around, but I can see the lake. I can see the lake would bring Lawndale to life, because it%u2019s just going to come within a mile, or not even a mile, is it, Richard? It%u2019s just going to come within a mile, or not even a mile is it, Richard? It%u2019s no more%u2014where the lake%u2019s going to come is no more than a half a mile up the road, is it?
RH: Something like that.
BB: Is it close to where Madge Keeter lives up somewhere in that area?
BH: Uh-huh, yeah, yeah, it is, and back this way.
BB: So, it would be filled by the river?
BH: The lake would. The lake would come right in there, right behind Madge. It would.
JC: Oceanfront property, or lakefront property, instantly.
RH: The big lake would cover a lot of Madge%u2019s property.
BH: Um-hmm, yeah, it would.
RH: And our son-in-law owns some where you turn down to Madge and them on the right. They bought a farm in there.
BB: I guess Madge and Bob probably own several acres in there. Is that where they came from originally, in that area or--?
BH: Madge did%u2014her dad owned that land.
BB: OK.
BH: She got%u2014she inherited that. She was an only child. And Bob%u2014where did Bob come from? Kings Mountain, Grover--?
RH: Grover.
BH: OK, yeah.
RH: He%u2019s Hoyt Keeter%u2019s brother%u2019s boy%u2014his daddy was.
BH: Yeah.
RH: Bob%u2019s daddy and Hoyt Keeter are brothers. [pause] Me and Keeter carried the mail together. He carried one route and I carried the other one.
BB: Is that right?
RH: Yeah, at the post office.
BB: I was trying to think of%u2014in the days, even before our time, was pretty much the only thing you needed out of Shelby was hospital services, or what would the folks have gone to Shelby for on Hunt%u2019s bus?
BH: I used to ride his bus some. Now, we had vehicles. Daddy had a car and a truck both%u2014a truck for the store and we had a car. We%u2019d go to Shelby in the car, but sometimes some of my friends and I would go on the bus; we%u2019d go to the movies or maybe just shopping.
RH: The Webb and the Carolina (theaters in Shelby)--.
BH: Yeah, we%u2019d%u2014or shopping, but I guess that%u2019s pretty much what most people would go for, maybe to shop uptown Shelby. We didn%u2019t have all the things here that you can find at the stores in Shelby. We%u2019re limited.
BB: What would a trip%u2014what would frequency be for trips into Shelby?
BH: We%u2019ve got that up at the museum%u2014seems like it was a quarter, or something like that.
BB: No, I mean frequency%u2014how often%u2026
BH: %u2026Oh, the frequent--. Oh, there was a schedule. He ran several times a day, and then he branched out and he had a schedule of what time he%u2019d leave and what time you could come back. You had a choice of when you wanted to go. Then he branched out%u2014he started sending a bus up around Casar and Fallston.
RH: He carried the mail to the post office up there.
BH: Yeah, he carried%u2014that%u2019s right.
RH: Belwood and Casar both%u2014he made rounds and he had passengers too.
BH: Their mail to the post office would go on that, and he would pick up passengers.
JC: The perfect business. Go ahead, go ahead.
BB: Let me expand on that and ask how often would a person need to go to Shelby?
BH: Oh, you didn%u2019t have to%u2014you might want to go, but you didn%u2019t have to go very often.
BB: Maybe once a month?
BH: Yeah. I can%u2019t speak for anybody except myself. I really don%u2019t know that, but there%u2019s a lot of people rode his bus. A lot of people rode his bus. They caught the bus right there at my daddy%u2019s store. That%u2019s where he would stop to pick up passengers.
JC: He had one bus, or two buses?
BH: I think he got more than one.
JC: So, we%u2019re talking about a town of, during this time, of how many people, do you think? Five hundred, a thousand? Was kids and people%u2014everybody, I guess %u2018cause--?
BH: Until that bus they rode the train%u2014you know about the train?
JC: The dummy.
BH: Yeah, they%u2019d ride the train. I never did ride that. I never was on it. But, there was a lot of people that rode that bus, and he probably had more trips on Saturday or something. I can remember, there was a late show on Saturday night, and you could catch the bus and go to that late show on Saturday night%u2014to Shelby and then bring you back home.
JC: I keep thinking, why wouldn%u2019t anybody come to work here? I mean, why farm when you could come here? You got a house; you got a bus trip to Shelby; you got everything you need in town. I see why people are so happy.
BH: OK, but let me tell you something else. At one time, the farmers looked down on Lawndale people because they were %u201Cmill trash.%u201D Am I right, Richard?
RH: Cotton mill, yeah.
BH: Cotton mill--. Cotton mill, and then, when the boll weevil hit, the farmers started coming and working in the mill!
JC: Then they were mill [laughed]--.
BH: It really changed, but at one time they really did look down on people that worked in the mill. They thought they were a class above them. Now, I said a little bit ago that the Lawndale people--I didn%u2019t feel any class. I didn%u2019t feel like there was any distinction whatsoever, and I guess it never dawned on me that probably we had more than the mill people. You know, the people that worked in the mill. But it never%u2014I didn%u2019t know it then. You know, it never--.
JC: You didn%u2019t think about it.
BH: It didn%u2019t make any difference. It didn%u2019t make any difference. We were just all, like I said, one big happy family.
JC: %u2018Cause you went to school with them; you went to church with them; it was everything that was connected together.
BH: Yeah, we did.
BB: Let me ask this%u2014in Cleveland County we have had, in the heyday, a lot of big farmers. Now, was it those type people that looked down on %u201Cmill trash,%u201D and not the actual people that worked on the farms? In other words, the Spanglers, the Kistlers%u2014they had a lot of property, as I recall.
BH: But it wasn%u2019t just the big farmers was it, Richard? It wasn%u2019t just those big, big farmers, %u2018cause I%u2014I mean, it was people like Johnny Elmore and%u2014of course, Johnny went to work for the mill, too. He was a foreman over there. But, I think some of the average size people thought they were just a little%u2026
BB: %u2026Oh, really?...
BH: %u2026yeah, a little bit above the--.
JC: Mr. Blanton said something that I thought was kind of funny. He said that whenever the farm kids, I think was at school or something%u2014talking about eating sandwiches--. He said the mill kids would have bologna on white bread%u2026
BH: %u2026And they%u2019d have sweet potatoes%u2026
JC: %u2026and the farm kids would have%u2026
BH: %u2026ham biscuits%u2026
JC: %u2026ham biscuits, and he%u2019s like, they would switch. He%u2019s like, %u201CI wanted their ham and they wanted my bologna.%u201D
BH: Right [all laughed].
JC: So, it seems, in some ways, there%u2019s envy on both sides.
BH: Now, on the kids, maybe.
JC: Right.
BH: The kids, probably more so.
JC: I mean, to me the country cooking is good, but the bologna is too. Nowadays, for me bologna and ham are about the same%u2014they%u2019re both country.
BH: Yeah.
JC: In some ways, bologna is kind of %u201Ccity%u201D back in the day.
RH: Charlie Yelton lived right beside of us%u2014he built a brick house%u2026
BH: %u2026Richard was raised just right out the road here, on this side of the river.
JC: OK.
BH: Yeah, he was raised on this side of the river.
RH: So, Charlie Yelton, back then, owned about three thousand acres of land%u2026
BH: %u2026He was one of those big-time farmers%u2026
RH: %u2026big-time farmer. Daddy run his tenants, and he charged until they picked their cotton and he paid them. So, what Yelton done, instead of%u2014he%u2019d pay them for their part of the cotton, and he was putting it on the market%u2026
BH: %u2026Future%u2026
RH: %u2026future markets, and then when it went bankrupt%u2014the whole country did%u2014he lost everything he had. His children had to bury him. He didn%u2019t have enough money%u2014lost all that big house.
BH: He owned the property--he lived down here where the Methodist church is. That was the property that this Mr. Yelton owned right here in town, but he owned all this farm land. Richard has told me they had a maid, and they%u2019d holler and say, %u201CJulia, the dishes are ready,%u201D and they were next door, just right next door to them and they%u2019d hear that.
JC: So they went from ear to ear overnight.
BH: The Depression ruined it. The Depression ruined it.
RH: They had a well with an electric pump, and we had to draw our water out of the well%u2014windlass [laughed] (A windlass is an ancient mechanism that could be used to raise water from a well).
JC: So, what did his kids do after they lost the money? You said he died. When did he pass?
BH: Were they all grown when that happened? Was his family grown?
RH: Yeah, they was all grown.
JC: They was all grown?
RH: Yeah. Paris Yelton%u2014he was Paris%u2019 uncle%u2014Paris owned%u2014his daddy owned some land out from Lawndale, too.
JC: Did he lose all his?
RH: So Paris bought some of the land, too, over there. That%u2019s when Lutz-Yelton went in together and formed the Lutz-Yelton tractor place there in Shelby. They got in the International tractor (business) and got rich.
BH: But, now, his daddy run a little store over here, too%u2014in town, but the Depression put him under.
RH: Yeah.
BH: But, now, Daddy survived the Depression. He was in the store. I think he went in the store in the late twenties or thirty, somewhere around there. Twenty-nine or thirty is when he went in%u2014my dad went in the business.
JC: Was it because he was diversified, do you think?
BH: I don%u2019t know. I have no idea.
JC: He didn%u2019t have all his eggs in one basket.
BH: I was just a kid and it didn%u2019t matter to me%u2014at that time, I don%u2019t know.
BB: I can tell you one thing%u2014being as good to people as he was.
JC: Yeah.
BH: Yeah, probably, %u2018cause he was. He was good to them.
RH: Well, when I first started in the service station I run a lot of farmers%u2014fixing their tires and stuff on their stuff, and I had to borrow money from the bank until the fall of the year. They got Bob Burns, I mean big-time farmer%u2014Roby Brackett%u2014I had to borrow money to get by. Of course, they paid me at the end of the year. I mean, most of the time, they%u2019d pay me.
BH: He ran a service station for a long time.
JC: Farming money is seasonal money, though. So you had to live with their season.
RH: Yeah.
JC: You couldn%u2019t%u2026
BH: %u2026And he was furnishing them gas and everything too, you see.
RH: I was furnishing everything.
RH: Did they realize how much you were eating of the costs while they were not paying you?
BH: I doubt if they did. They didn%u2019t realize what a strain it was putting on you, did they?
RH: No, huh-uh. No, they didn%u2019t realize it. But Roby Brackett always tell he had a mail route and he was a big-time cattle farmer, too. But he%u2019d always tell me, %u201CNow, if you need the money, let me know and I%u2019ll pay.%u201D But I never did dun him. I could have, and he would have paid me, but I never did, so--. I was just proud enough to%u2014try to be proud enough not to dun him. [Telephone rang and Mrs. Hord answered, so there was a phone conversation while the interview continued]. Of course, back then there was a lot of hard%u2014people didn%u2019t have no money back then. You see, Daddy worked the company store ten hours a day for a dollar a day. That%u2019s still hard for me to believe that today. That was about nineteen, I don%u2019t know, somewhere between ninety-five--. I believe he said he was twenty years old, and he was born in 1895. Anyway, it was about%u2026
JC: %u20261915?
RH: Yeah, somewhere around 1915-16. Twelve hours a day--that%u2019s hard for me to believe%u2014six days a week. Of course, he worked on the farm all his life. I guess a dollar a day with cash money at the end of the week--.
JC: That was--. Yeah, that was pretty good, because a lot of times farmers didn%u2019t have cause to have a lot of money, at times.
RH: Of course, I know when I went to work in the mill at forty cents an hour%u2014I know that first paycheck, I was awful happy [laughed].
JC: Thought you had something then, didn%u2019t you?
RH: 1942, and I thought I was the richest man in Lawndale [laughed].
BB: Did you work at the plant here?
RH: Yes. What we did%u2014I was going to school--that was during the war and they was short of help. I would get out of school%u2014they%u2019d let us work from three %u2018til eleven. The shift was two %u2018til ten, and they%u2019d let us come in at three and work %u2018til eleven. While we were going to school, I worked in the mill.
BB: Was there a good many of you that did that?
RH: Yeah. I done that the last year I was in high school.
JC: Is it because they didn%u2019t have as many people because the men were gone?
RH: That%u2019s right. And when I worked, the three boys that had to go%u2014( ) Costner%u2019s boy, Fred Dayberry and a Buff boy%u2014all three boys that worked right beside of me got killed in World War II.
BB: Is that right?
RH: Doffed spinning right beside of them.
BB: How long did you work in the mill?
RH: Two years.
BB: Two years?
RH: Yeah.
JC: Sounds like you had a lot of different jobs over the years%u2014running a service station, you delivered%u2014did you deliver mail as well?
RH: Yeah.
JC: And what else?
RH: I run it for twenty-five years, and then Jim Southard said%u2014Ed and Bob Keeter--all three of them traded with me. [Mrs. Hord offered something to drink]. You see, I serviced all three routes%u2014their cars, kept them up. Jim Southard, he couldn%u2019t get a substitute at that time, so he was off every other Saturday. He wanted me to go ahead and take the route for him. At that time, business was sort of slow, so I did. So, his route got big enough that I was carrying it every Saturday. Then, my business got good and I told Jim, %u201CJim, I%u2019ve just got to quit this mail route.%u201D He said, %u201CI%u2019ll tell you what. I%u2019m fixing to put in for retirement. You%u2019ll be eligible for the job if you want it.%u201D I didn%u2019t have no health insurance, no retirement or nothing, so I decided%u2014I told Betty, %u201CI%u2019m going to take it.%u201D She said, %u201CWell, you%u2019ve been in this service station all your life. Are you going to quit?%u201D I said, %u201CWell, one thing about it, I%u2019m going to make more money. I%u2019m going to get two weeks%u2019 paid vacation.%u201D [All laughed].
BB: Probably never had took a vacation.
RH: That%u2019s right%u2014never had. So, I put in for it, and Mr. Morehead signed and got everything fixed up, and so I took the route over. I carried it %u2018til I retired twenty and a half years, so--.
JC: Wow. And that helps, because with government and pensions and stuff, instead of working at the service station, you wouldn%u2019t have had except what you put away, I guess.
RH: Right, and it wasn%u2019t too long after that, she had cancer%u2014spent two weeks at Duke Hospital%u2014it paid every penny of it. I don%u2019t know how much it would have been, but if I had the service station, I would have been busted.
JC: It happened at the right time.
RH: Everything just happened at the right time.
JC: So, what was it like with sports in the community? Leisure, entertainment%u2014things like that--. Did you have a lot to do?
RH: Not too much when I come up%u2014most of the time we%u2019d catch Hunt%u2019s bus and go to Shelby to a movie. Back when I was single, %u2018cause it was a quarter to ride down there and back, and a quarter to get in the Webb Theater [laughed].
JC: Might as well go down there than to stay around here.
RH: That%u2019s right. Yeah. We had them continued things on westerns, you know [laughed].
BB: Go every week so you wouldn%u2019t miss one.
RH: Go every week so we wouldn%u2019t miss nothing.
JC: [Laughed].
RH: And then, after we got up ( ), we%u2019d go down to the pool room and shoot pool on Saturday. Of course, we could always drink beer back then. [Mrs. Hord came back into the room, offered Mr. Hord a drink and brought drinks to others].
JC: Sounds like%u2014I don%u2019t know%u2014I%u2019ve been hearing a lot, %u2018cause I%u2019ve been here for what%u2014how long have I been here now?
BB: Six months, I believe [joked].
JC: [Laughed].
BB: No, you came in on Thursday, didn%u2019t you, or Friday?
JC: I guess I came in on that Friday, yeah.
BB: A week ago.
JC: It%u2019s been about ten days or so.
BH: Ten days is all you%u2019ve been here, is it?
JC: That%u2019s all I%u2019ve been here, but in that time%u2014I mean, I know the story in some ways because my family has a similar story. My mama%u2019s family%u2014they were sharecroppers. They left sharecropping because they didn%u2019t want that system no more, and they went into the mills in Laurinburg. My daddy%u2019s family%u2014they were farmers. They went%u2014they didn%u2019t have mills where they lived because they were farther east%u2014but they went into plant work and other stuff like that. It%u2019s a similar story.
BH: You know, some of the sharecroppers weren%u2019t treated well, either.
JC: Well, my family weren%u2019t at all [laughed].
BH: They were not. They were not, but now my daddy was really good to his sharecroppers. He just treated them like family. He got out and worked%u2014after he got into farming, he spent a lot of time away from the store %u2018cause that%u2019s what he loved to do. He really loved to get out on the tractor and work. They were just his friends. You remember Montaque, Richard. He took care of Daddy after he got%u2014he died with cancer in %u201963. Montaque, that lived there--big old black guy, and he took care of him. He could just pick him up and lift him, and put him in the bed. We didn%u2019t have hospice then. Everything was different.
JC: Everything is different, and in some ways%u2026
BH: %u2026Oh yeah, and it will continue to change.
JC: Yes, it%u2019s going to keep changing.
BH: Yeah.
JC: Part of this has been about textiles, but what%u2019s been exciting, I think today, is bringing that story forward. We%u2019ve talked a lot about how%u2014you know, what has changed, what has happened, how%u2019s the community adapted to it? Seems like the whole county it%u2019s happened to.
BH: How is all of this verbal stuff that you%u2019re collecting%u2014how is it going to be used? Do you--?
JC: I know that part of it is to help create a museum, to flesh out the story of the county, twentieth century-wise. How important was textiles to the community? Other areas they%u2019re going to talk about. Plus, they%u2019re going to take oral histories and put them in a listening room where people can go, and in fifty years, great-great grandparent%u2019s kids, who heard my great-great grandmother or grandfather actually spoke to some folks in Cleveland County one time. They can go in and hear their words, and hear a little bit%u2014not everything, but at least a little bit of what%u2026
BH: %u2026What they said%u2026
JC: %u2026of what they had to say, and what folks%u2014even not their family%u2014had to say about living in Cleveland County. This area is textiles, mill villages, mill communities%u2026
BH: %u2026And you know, another big, big change%u2014the little grocery stores don%u2019t have a chance now. They just can%u2019t survive. The chain stores, they can%u2019t compete with their prices. We have a little grocery store across over here on the other side of town, just going out of town. But honestly, you pay twice as much. Now I go over there and get something if I run out of it, but I just couldn%u2019t afford to buy my groceries%u2014all my groceries over there. I wish it wasn%u2019t like that, but it is. It%u2019s because--I have been told that some of these little independent stores, they go to Wal-Mart and get some of their stuff.
BB: Oh, yeah.
JC: Sometimes that%u2019s cheaper. Mama used to run a small convenience store, and she would go to Sam%u2019s Club, which was like a Wal-Mart thing%u2026
BH: %u2026Yeah, to stock up%u2026
JC: %u2026to buy some certain things because it was cheaper than getting it from her distributor%u2026
BH: %u2026Yeah, yeah%u2026
JC: %u2026because the distributor%u2019s prices are so expensive.
BH: Well, I have heard of%u2014I%u2019ve never seen them, but I%u2019ve heard people tell me they have seen them there buying stuff.
BB: Are we still recording?
JC: We have been, yeah. I can cut it off if you want to. [The recorder was not turned off, but as Mr. Biggerstaff stated, the following statements did not pertain to the interview. The remainder of the recording dealt with the proliferation of drug stores in towns similar to (and smaller than) Shelby, and the rapid increase in the cost of medicine].
END OF INTERVIEW

Transcribed by: Mike Hamrick
Date: May 27th, 2009