BILL ALLEN

TRANSCRIPT %u2013 BILL ALLEN
[Compiled April 20th, 2010]

Interviewee: BILL ALLEN

Interviewer: Tommy Forney

Interview Date: October 6th, 2008

Location: Shelby City Park, Shelby, NC

Length: Approximately 48 minutes

TOMMY FORNEY: I%u2019m going to start out by saying that this is October the 6th, 2008, and I%u2019m Tommy Forney and I%u2019m here on the Earl Scruggs Center Oral History Project, and I%u2019m talking to Mr. Bill Allen. I%u2019m going to let--Bill, you tell us your particulars to start off with.
BILL ALLEN: Well, I was born in 1937 at the mill village, the Lily Mill village down there. My dad worked there. They came in--he came down from the Scottish highlands in the mountains and married my mom from--.
TF: What was your dad%u2019s name?
BA: My dad%u2019s name was M.C. Allen, and he was born in 1892. I was born late in their life; I was the last child.
TF: How many in your family?
BA: I had four sisters and one brother, and I have one sister left and she%u2019s ninety-two years old. I%u2019m seventy-one, so I%u2019ve been around here for quite a while.
TF: Now you said from the Scottish highlands.
BA: Up--up here. His folks were from Scotland.
TF: You mean the North Carolina mountains?
BA: Yeah, but they settled up there, and my grandfather worked for George Vanderbilt. He was a tree surgeon, and he worked there and my dad was born up around there.
TF: Around the Asheville area.
BA: Yeah. So that%u2019s about as much as I know about my ancestry. I know I came from Scotland.
TF: Do you know when they came to the Lily Mill village?
BA: No, it had to be twenties or thirties.
TF: Yeah.
BA: %u2018Cause he worked there for thirty-five years.
TF: What did he do?
BA: He was just a laborer there. He--I think he ran something called %u201Cpickers,%u201D which I don%u2019t know what that is.
TF: Yeah.
BA: And raised a family. Good man. Good, religious person.
TF: Yeah. About where was the house?
BA: Almost in front of the Baptist church down there, a little small house.
TF: Lily Baptist Church?
BA: Yeah, um-hmm. And I was born in that house because in %u201937 they didn%u2019t take--regular folks didn%u2019t go to the hospital; they were born in the houses. Doctors came out and gave, you know, delivered.
TF: Yeah.
BA: So I was born in the house.
TF: And just a doctor, probably, not a midwife, but--?
BA: No, he was a real doctor, Dr. Parker. All right, I played the North Lake Club one night and he came up and introduced himself and said, %u201CWe really like your music,%u201D and I said, %u201CWell, thank you, sir.%u201D I said, %u201CI recognize you. You gave me birth in %u201937.%u201D He said, %u201CDid I deliver you?%u201D I said, %u201CYes, sir, you did.%u201D He later died, but he was a nice%u2026
TF: %u2026I think he might have delivered me.
BA: He was a nice fellow. He went into the Army after he delivered me, you know, in World War II, but he was a very nice fellow.
TF: Yeah. Well, let%u2019s see. Did we get your mother%u2019s name?
BA: Her name was Molly ( ) Allen. She was a Raines.
TF: Oh, really?
BA: Yeah. I was named after my grandfather, whose name was William Anderson Raines, I think, but they called him Billy Raines. So, my grandpa Billy Raines is where I got my name, Billy. It%u2019s not William; it%u2019s Billy.
TF: Okay. So your full name is Billy--?
BA: Billy, and my father%u2019s name was Melvin Carter Allen, and I got my grandpa and the Melvin--the %u201CM%u201D is Melvin.
TF: Okay. Billy Melvin?
BA: Um-hmm.
TF: And your mother was from here, %u2018cause I know the Raines; I know some Raines.
BA: Well, the Raines came from, I think, up around in the mountains where they came from, Tryon. I think she was maybe born there.
TF: Yeah. Well, was there--? Do you remember, was there music? Was your family musical? Was there music in the home or in the village, around, early on?
BA: No, not in the immediate family, but my dad said that one of his brothers went to California, and I had some cousins that I never met that were on radio and all that stuff, so they were musicians. But, none of my children or anybody was a musician. I have a great-nephew that%u2019s a good guitar player, but that%u2019s way down the line, you know, great-nephew.
TF: Where did you go to school?
BA: Shelby.
TF: Shelby Junior High and Shelby High School?
BA: Yeah, I went to--they called it%u2026
TF: %u2026Was it Lafayette Street Elementary?
BA: It was called South Shelby Grammar, but it was Love, I think, a Love School, but it%u2019s no longer there. It%u2019s down close to Ramblewood on that street. My dad moved from down there and bought a house up on Dodd Street there, and there%u2019s where I was really raised. In the first grade is when they moved us up there. So, that%u2019s South Shelby on 1217 Dodd Street.
TF: Yeah, I was just down there looking at Don Gibson%u2019s place where he was born on Textile and Washington Street.
BA: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know exactly where you%u2019re talking about, right beside the bypass there.
TF: Um-hmm.
BA: Yeah. Don was all over South Shelby I understand. I was too young to know him. I was just like ten or eleven when he was over at the radio station, you know, but I later played with his lead guitar player around here and he taught me a lot of guitar too. He was older.
TF: Now who was that?
BA: That was Hal Peeler. %u201CPee Wee.%u201D Hal %u201CPee Wee%u201D Peeler, a terrific guitar player.
TF: I don%u2019t think I%u2019ve been aware of that name myself.
BA: Well, that was years ago, though. He moved to Florida. I don%u2019t know, but I think he may be deceased by now probably. I lost track on him.
TF: What about Earl and any of the bluegrass guys, the Davis brothers or anybody like that?
BA: The Davis brothers I knew well. Pee Wee, the fiddle player, and Hubert, that we called %u201CTiny,%u201D yeah, we were--I was born right down there by where they were born. So, yeah, we used to play a little bit together, %u2018cause when I lived on the southern side of town, all I knew was bluegrass and what they called %u201Chillbilly%u201D music. Later, when the park opened here, I was exposed to Nat King Cole and Teresa Brewer. There%u2019s where I got my%u2026
TF: %u2026Is that right?...
BA: %u2026interest starting in pop music.
TF: Do you credit Mr. Bailey or who was bringing that music in? Was it just the other kids?
BA: Now, you%u2019re talking about the radio show, %u201CTeen Time,%u201D Teen Club?
TF: No, here at the park, how did you--? You say that you were exposed to those other types of music.
BA: When I came to swim. You know, the juke box.
TF: The juke box, yeah.
BA: When I was ten or eleven.
TF: I remember hearing %u201CAlley Oop%u201D at the pool. [Laughter] BA: Oh, yeah. Well, Nat King Cole, %u201CToo Young,%u201D oh man, I loved that song. And Teresa Brewer%u2019s %u201CNickelodeon.%u201D You know, %u201CPut Another Nickel In.%u201D And Patti Page. You%u2019d get out there, and we were used to swimming in the rivers and creeks, and we got in a clean, beautiful park out there with the clean-smelling water. But that influenced my music a whole lot.
TF: I see, yeah.
BA: Yeah.
TF: That almost connects back to, indirectly, I guess, to Don Gibson %u2018cause that jukebox must have been serviced by somebody like J&K or Bobby%u2019s Music.
BA: Probably so.
TF: He worked for J&K.
BA: Now, I have met Don a couple of times. He used to send me--I knew his half-brother, Bobby Deal. I knew him, and I would ask Bobby, you know, %u2018cause I was playing then, after he%u2019d gone on out to Memphis--I mean Knoxville.
TF: Right.
BA: He had the--on %u201CMid-Day Merry-Go-Round%u201D out there. And I knew his steel player; he was Summey Hendricks, nicknamed %u201CEagle Eye.%u201D He and I--when he%u2019d come home he would--we%u2019d get together and play, and he%u2019d come over and play on Teen Club. I remember, he showed me the first minor and %u201CI Saw Mama Kissing Santa Claus.%u201D He wanted to play it and I didn%u2019t know where that minor was. We played it in G, so it was C--C-flat minor. C-flat minor, you know, and he showed me that chord. I was just a kid, and I said, %u201CMan, yeah.%u201D I know that started me on minors there.
TF: Well, tell me about the Teen Club and how that--.
BA: When I got in junior high school in the seventh grade, they had a talent show out in the auditorium. I was scared to death. I didn%u2019t--I hadn%u2019t played in front of anyone except just neighborhood front porch picking, you know. So I got up and did a Webb Pierce song, and I was scared to death, man, all those kids out there. And I won the thing. I was so scared that I went over to the curtain and I just kind of went into a trance, and Ella Jean Rainey, the little blond-headed girl there that I went to school with. She came up and tugged and said, %u201CYou won! You won!%u201D I said, [stuttering unintelligibly]. But Bill Bailey then, was forming %u201CTeen Club Teen Time%u201D on WOHS.
TF: Oh, okay, the radio show.
BA: So he came up to me and said, %u201CI want you on my radio program,%u201D and he said, %u201CWe%u2019re going to go to Charlotte%u201D or somewhere, and I said--. You know, me being an ole, you know, ole boy down there that didn%u2019t have fifteen cents in my pocket. I said, %u201CIs it gonna cost me anything?%u201D I wanted to know if I had to have some money. He said, %u201COh, no, we%u2019re going to take you and all that. No, we want you to be on the radio show.%u201D I said, %u201CAh, good.%u201D So that got me started on the radio. Bill Bailey, he helped a lot of us, a lot of people, get interested because he was very civic-minded too.
TF: Was there a connection%u2026
BA: %u2026Like you, yeah.
TF: Was there a connection between the radio show that he had and the Teen Club? Do you know which came first?
BA: Yeah, sure was. I never much went to the dances because I lived down there and we always had front porch pickings, you know down there, as much as we could. And like I say, I was just a kid. But it was connected. It was a--that came from the Teen Club. Yeah, I was a member and had a card, but I never went to a dance or anything.
TF: Did you play by yourself to start with? %u2018Cause you ended up with these guys--.
BA: Yeah, I did, I did. Then later, Don Waldrop and Rachel Brooks and I had a--came out of that and had our own radio show. Charlie Reid sponsored us and Hugh Dover emceed.
TF: Yeah, Charlie Reid from Shelby Music Center.
BA: Yeah, he was a great friend of mine, Charlie was. I miss him really bad. But, at any rate, we had that radio program for several years, and we won--. Actually, Arthur Smith came in over here at the park. Came in--what got us started, you know, we%u2019d played together over there on %u201CTeen Club,%u201D but we entered and played %u201CAlabama Jubilee%u201D and won the Arthur Smith thing. Went down and was on black-and-white TV. They said my mother just cried when I was on TV, like it was a big deal, you know. But Rachel Brooks really, and Don Waldrop--terrific musicians. Rachel, back in the fifties, had a voice a whole lot like Karen Carpenter. And Don Waldrop was the best bass player you ever saw in your life, and he still is. I told him when we had that reunion, I said, %u201CYou ruined me for every bass player I ever played with.%u201D
TF: Did y%u2019all play together when you got back together for your reunion?
BA: Oh, yeah. We went down and played for Don%u2019s high school reunion.
TF: I wish I had known about that.
BA: Well, I didn%u2019t know you then, or you would have. But we went down and Mike Lattimore came in from Nashville. Dan Padgett.
TF: Yeah. Well, Dan went a whole different direction with--. He went back into bluegrass from that, but was playing%u2026
BA: %u2026Well, we played a lot of bluegrass when%u2026
TF: %u2026At the time?
BA: See, after the Brooks and Allen, or I think it was--. If I%u2019m not mistaken, Mike wanted me to play in the Teen Timers, which stemmed out of the Teen Club thing, Bill Bailey%u2019s thing. We were the original %u201CMike Lattimore and His Teen Timers,%u201D and we played a lot. We went down to Union Grove Fiddler%u2019s Convention, and Dan, you know what a banjo player he is.
TF: Yeah.
BA: But anyway, we went down there and they had three halls, and we came out in first place in two halls, second place in the third hall. Dan still has the blue ribbon where he--.
TF: What year was that? Do you remember?
BA: Oh, gee. Let%u2019s see, it had to be %u201954 or real close to that. It had to be there.
TF: Yeah. Well, tell me about the other guys in that band. They were all talented, weren%u2019t they?
BA: Yes.
TF: Mike, and where they are now, and that sort of thing.
BA: Well, Mike%u2019s still in Nashville. He%u2019s on a radio show out there and they have lawyers and they discuss different things, but they play music too. Mike, I think, still teaches. He has Parkinson%u2019s Disease now, so it ruined his banjo playing and his guitar playing because of his right hand doing this, you know. I%u2019m real sorry about that, %u2018cause he was a terrific banjo player. I mean, he was real smooth, a good banjo player.
TF: Yeah. Did he play the five-string Scruggs style, or how did--?
BA: Yeah, he did. Oh, yeah. In the seventies, Mike was on the Grand Ole Opry, the Opry staff band. He backed the stars. I went out there in %u201974, and he introduced me to Porter Wagoner, Roy Acuff and Hank Snow, and all the old boys that we used to listen to. But Mike was well-liked out there. He played with Stoney Cooper ( )%u2026
TF: %u2026Was he a local, Lattimore?...
BA: %u2026and George Morgan, Lorrie%u2019s dad. Excuse me.
TF: Was he a local, Lattimore?
BA: Oh, yeah, yeah. He lived out here on Bowman Street in a house on the right, you know, as you go out behind the%u2026
TF: %u2026Yeah, go right up here by the park.
BA: Yeah. We did a lot of picking over there. And we went to school--we started in junior high. We got together when I won that little talent show over there. Mike came up and introduced himself and said, %u201CI play a little guitar.%u201D He said, %u201CDo you like to ride horses?%u201D I said, %u201CI%u2019ve ridden a mule or two.%u201D He said, %u201CWell, if you%u2019ll come over and help me with my guitar a little bit, we%u2019ve got some horses.%u201D So that started a life-long friendship. We were as brothers, really, Mike and I were all through high school. Stayed in touch; we%u2019re in touch now. We stay in touch. But Don, of course, you already know his history, I%u2019m sure.
TF: A little bit. Yeah, I knew his other family out here was a little older than me, so I%u2019ve always wondered more--I%u2019d like to find out more about Don.
BA: Well, is there anything? Maybe I might know something that you might want to know.
TF: Well, tell me about what you know about his career after he left Shelby.
BA: Okay, he went to Stetson College and graduated in Florida, went into the Navy, was in the Navy band. They had a jazz band that played at the White House. Then, after the Navy, he went to Hawaii and played with a symphony orchestra there. Then, I think he played in New York for about a year, and then went to California and started doing--playing in these orchestras and bands that backed Andy Williams, Sonny and Cher. Aw, he played a lot of movie backgrounds, such as %u201CRocky,%u201D %u201CStar Trek,%u201D on and on.
TF: Didn%u2019t he play some horns, as well as bass?
BA: Played, yeah, played trombone and bass. Played string and sousaphone and tuba.
TF: Yeah.
BA: We played in the Shelby High band. You know, we played tubas, sousaphones, Don and I did. We did that, too, together when we were in school. Don now is retired and lives in Florida, and they have a terrific dance band. You know, and play the old schmaltzy stuff.
TF: Yeah.
BA: He sent me a CD and everything. So, Don%u2019s retired and lives down close to Orlando now.
TF: Well, that%u2019s great. Let%u2019s see, Mike, and Dan--we%u2019ve interviewed Dan, except that we need to find out more about this type--. He told us a lot about his--. He%u2019s got a lot to say about a lot of things %u2018cause he%u2019s done a lot.
BA: Yes, he has. He did well, and could have made it out there. I had a family, so I was doing pretty good. I was on the road for about a couple of years playing--I played with a band for five months and I got a better offer to play up in the Midwest out toward Chicago and up toward New York and down the coast as a single. I was a lounge entertainer. I sang and played my guitar five hours a night, six days a week. But, I was gone too much and I had a family, so I had to give that up %u2018cause if I hadn%u2019t, you know, they wouldn%u2019t have had a pop, and they needed one desperately. So, and I played with the Starlighters Dance Band probably twenty-something years here. We played all the clubs, Northlake, the Country Club, and the Moose and all the clubs around. Then we%u2019d go to Asheville, all these places, Charlotte.
TF: Who was the Starlighters Dance Band? Where were they out of?
BA: Here.
TF: Here?
BA: Shelby. ( ) Sisk formed it. Later, he got out of it, and I took it over for quite a while, %u2018cause I was arranging all our music anyway by then. We had a good dance band. It was very good, but some of the guys are gone on and most of them are too old to play now, including me.
TF: What were you playing?
BA: I played guitar and we had two horns, bass and drums. On the big jobs, we%u2019d hire a pianist. We had a couple of pianists we used, you know, if they wanted to ( ).
TF: Did you have a vocalist or did you sing?
BA: Ah, yeah, I did, and sometimes we%u2019d hire a female singer. Depending on what people wanted and everything.
TF: Let%u2019s see, somewhere in there, your association with Ray Ledford, how did that--?
BA: Yeah, yeah, Ray%u2026
TF: %u2026How did you meet Ray?
BA: Ray, when Charlie Reid had the store there on Warren Street and Lafayette, the first Shelby Jewelry and Loan.
TF: Um-hmm, on the corner there where the Chamber is now.
BA: Yeah, it used to be Messick%u2019s Soda Shop there. I had my first root beer. My dad took me in there when I was a kid and bought me one. Later, I saw guitars in the window, two or three, four guitars, and went in and met Charlie. So that%u2019s where that started, and Ray later became a watch--he%u2019s a watchmaker also. He was the watchmaker in there, and I went in there and Charlie said, %u201CHey, Bill, Ray plays too,%u201D so Ray and I became very good friends for a long, long, long, long time. We would play together and he%u2019d come over to my house or I%u2019d be at his house and we played a lot of custom, you know, specialized things. Like, somebody wanted an Italian dinner; Ray would get a mandolin and work out Italian songs terrific. Always one of the best musicians I ever knew.
TF: Could play just about anything, couldn%u2019t he?
BA: Yeah, and I still respect him way up there and all, but I know I had already quit playing, and I think I told you this. I had already stopped playing; I was burned out, and wanted to stay home, but he called and wanted me to play bass, and I played bass with him for five years and I got burned out again. I didn%u2019t realize that if I had told him I was going to quit, then he would be very upset, but he still is upset about it. I know we%u2019re recording this and I%u2019m sorry about that, but Ray, oh man, I%u2019ve got the most respect for him. I really do, and sorry that happened, you know.
TF: Yeah, a lot of people do.
BA: Yeah, I didn%u2019t realize that, but John told me he did the same thing to him and all. I didn%u2019t realize he was like that, see. I%u2019d never played with him in a band or anything. He%u2019d get me to come in and play with him once in a while, but I always played with the Starlighters mostly.
TF: Did y%u2019all sort of have--it sounds like they were similar bands.
BA: Yeah, pretty much.
TF: Almost like competitors, I guess, in a way.
BA: Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we were but back then there was enough jobs for everybody. Now, private clubs are a thing of the past.
TF: Yeah.
BA: As far as being strong because they--. The liquor-by-the-drink made a big difference. Back then, you couldn%u2019t--you had to belong to a private club to go out.
TF: What other people in Shelby and Cleveland County or even a little further out, but especially in this area, did you see that were brought in, maybe to the park here or the armory or to the radio station? I heard you mention on the night you played over at the theater thing that--something about Ernest Tubb, about seeing Ernest Tubb. I%u2019m not sure where that was. Maybe you played on a bill with him or something. Didn%u2019t you mention that?
BA: Ernest Tubb? No, not Ernest Tubb. It might have been--there were several others, like Lester Flatt and Earl Scruggs. I played on a bill with them and Tex Ritter, a few people like that, but I never did go too much for Nashville because I had other desires. I didn%u2019t want to play in a country band.
TF: Just wondered who you might have seen here at the park. I know they had some people here. Did Flatt and Scruggs--did they play here at the City Park?
BA: No, where we played was in, say, over in Salisbury. The very week that %u201CThe Beverly Hillbillies%u201D came on TV, it was that very week it had been on, so the crowd was just out the windows. When they hit that song, it just took the roof off the place. But we opened the show for them. I was playing--this guy, this singer wanted me to go with him and play lead for him. I did a lot of that. I was kind of a musician that somebody would call and say, %u201CHey, are you booked on a particular night?%u201D %u201CNo,%u201D and I%u2019d go with them, you know. I did a lot of that.
TF: But you don%u2019t remember anybody, like, going to the armory and seeing a big group or a big band or anything like that, or at a school auditorium? Were they bringing in acts or did you not--?
BA: Yeah, they did that, but I was always playing when they were, so I didn%u2019t. If I was off, I usually crashed. You know, I%u2019d stay home. But, oh yeah, there was a lot of people coming in and out of Shelby. I knew they were. I didn%u2019t get to see Chet Atkins %u2018til his last concert in Charlotte. My daughter and her husband said, %u201CHey, we know you always wanted to go see Chet and we%u2019re going,%u201D and Chet said, %u201CThis is my last time%u201D right before he died. I mean, that was one of my heroes. Chet, he was a fine guitar player. Hank Garland, see, these guys knew each other. Hank and Chet were very good friends.
TF: Talk a little bit about that, about Hank and how you came to know him, or how you were--when you first were aware of Hank Garland.
BA: Well, I was first aware of Hank Garland when I started playing because he was with Eddy Arnold then, and he%u2019d let Hank play an instrumental, but I loved Eddy ( ). I liked his singing, but yeah, I knew of him way back then. How I got to meet him was a friend of Hank%u2019s and mine, Buster Kendrick. He lived down in Patterson Springs; he knew Hank. Buster and I were sitting around playing one day and he said, %u201CI%u2019m going to take you down and introduce you to Hank Garland,%u201D and I said, %u201CWho?%u201D He said, %u201CHank Garland.%u201D I said, %u201CYou know Hank?%u201D and he said, %u201CSure.%u201D He said, %u201CBut, you can play with Hank. You know his stuff and all.%u201D I said, %u201CMan, will you please take me down there?%u201D Hank and I got introduced and played that night. We had a good friendship until he died; we stayed in touch. But, all the time, he lived down out north of Spartanburg in the country. You couldn%u2019t go out there unless you knew somebody. For about eight years or so, I was down there every chance I got. I loved his people. His parents, they treated me like their son. Bill Garland%u2019s the last one now, and we still stay in touch. I think so much of them.
TF: Yeah.
BA: But he helped me a lot. Even going down there, he%u2019d say, %u201CTry this,%u201D and he%u2019d show me something. You know, I wouldn%u2019t ask him anything; Buster told me not to. He said, %u201CHe%u2019s got a temper. You have to watch it.%u201D So he said, %u201CDon%u2019t ask him to show you anything,%u201D and I never did, not once. But every once in a while, I%u2019d be playing and he%u2019d say, %u201CBill, try this,%u201D and he%u2019d show me something. So I%u2019ll always cherish those things.
TF: Did you have a teacher, or how did you learn? You credit a lot of your ability to just natural ability or did you study up on your own in books? When you were learning and learning to play the jazz stuff and the extended chords and things like that, what did you turn to?
BA: That came after--see, back then, we didn%u2019t have anything but radios, [ ] machines and things like that. Didn%u2019t even have TV when I started. I mean, we just--and the guitar players then didn%u2019t have teachers. There wasn%u2019t any guitar teachers. Somebody knew something, you%u2019d go and watch them. Try to be a friend to them and let them let you sit there and watch them. Now, I had a bunch of people that were very kind to me along. My first guitar, my dad traded a Stewart Warner radio in to a guy that just came back from World War II. He had this guitar and he traded it to Dad, and the old boy showed me %u201CCowboy Jack%u201D and a few things on there. The people down there, there were two or three guys that helped me out. Then later on, there were people, there were so many, so many people that helped me. There%u2019s so many that we don%u2019t have time for me to go through that, but some of the guys like Hal Peeler I told you about, ( ) and Ray. %u2018Cause when I met Ray he was very good; he was twenty-nine years old, but he was already an extremely good guitar player, plus all the other stuff he did. So there were so many. Gene Deskin showed Mike and me a few little--these square dance licks. So that%u2019s how we did it then.
TF: Um-hmm.
BA: Just wherever we could go.
TF: Did you play anything besides bass and guitar? Did you ever play fiddle or any other instruments?
BA: No, not fiddle. I played--my dad bought me a harmonica one time and showed me a few old-fashioned songs on it, but as soon as I got that guitar, the harmonica went south.
TF: Your dad played harmonica?
BA: He played it. It was one of the sweetest sounds I ever heard, yeah. He showed me a few things.
TF: There%u2019s sort of a harmonica tradition around this area, seems like.
BA: Really?
TF: Yeah, seems like we found--several people have mentioned--.
BA: Well, I%u2019ll tell you one of the better ones. He%u2019s an old friend of mine. He%u2019s Don Camp. He%u2019s one of the best harmonica players you%u2019ll ever hear. If you ever get a chance, you%u2019ll love it. [Pause] He plays with my nephew, Brian Pearson. They play together in a band. Brian went up to--I was playing house bands up at Lake Norman there when Brian was fifteen years old and I put him up there on the stage. He was fairly good, and I brought him along. That was one of the first times I quit. I had a boy in college and I needed the money, and as soon as he graduated I burned out again and Brian took over. Man, he knew all the licks. I said, %u201COkay, you learn this,%u201D and I said, %u201CNow when we play Friday or Saturday night,%u201D I said, %u201CNow when it comes time, I want you to play that.%u201D So he would take over and you couldn%u2019t tell the difference, man. He%u2019s a terrific guitar player. But Don, and Ellis Newton was another musician that I always thought a lot of around here. He played on the road for a lot of years.
TF: What did he play?
BA: Played sax and sang. He was singing. Ah, he was a good singer. But the Frantic Six was from here and he was one of them. They had Gus Williams and Steve Anthony, and several of them I didn%u2019t know. Jimmy ( ). Gee, I don%u2019t remember the other names, but when they got good enough here, they took off and was on the road for a long time. Van Morton.
TF: What about Ned Costner? Did you ever run into Ned?
BA: I%u2019ve heard that name but I don%u2019t know him. If it%u2019s new musicians, I probably don%u2019t know them.
TF: No, he%u2019s not new. I guess you%u2019ve got a--Dan%u2019s got just a slew of photographs, memorabilia and things like that. I guess you have some of that, or did you?...
BA: %u2026There%u2019s some of it there but it%u2019s packed away, you know. It%u2019s a thing now that--at my age right now, I remember all this stuff every once in a while and I like to sit down and play, but I don%u2019t have the energy to get out there and hit it like I did. I don%u2019t.
TF: Tell me about what you like to play now. You play more acoustic? Do you do some songwriting?
BA: Oh yeah, for probably twenty-five years and there%u2019s--on the classical guitar I have, which Ray made%u2026
TF: %u2026I was going to ask you if you didn%u2019t have Ray%u2026
BA: %u2026Yeah. [ ] that happened then, and I%u2019ve been working on a new chord system. I%u2019m going to play the whole thing at the reception, the people coming in the church down there in Charlotte. I%u2019ve got it set up and it sounds really good. I%u2019m going to play the whole thing with that new system. That%u2019s the first time I%u2019ve done it in public.
TF: This is your son%u2019s wedding?
BA: Yeah. That%u2019s my last son. He%u2019s forty-three years old. I didn%u2019t think he%u2019d ever get married, but he is, and I%u2019m looking forward to--. I%u2019m going to do that for my boy, but I don%u2019t play very much any more. Out, you know. I want to spend some time with my wife %u2018cause I was gone so much, and we enjoy doing little things that other would find boring, I%u2019m sure.
TF: Well, is there any other kind of direction that we ought to take? Something we haven%u2019t covered? I was going to ask you about the radio, back to the radio for a minute, and that was WOHS.
BA: OHS, yes, yes.
TF: Who do you remember in the radio station? Do you remember any of the folks that were running the station or old deejays?
BA: Bob Wallace managed it and Don McLean was announcer. Hugh Dover was the guy I knew best. Larry Hughes passed away too. Pat Patterson was the engineer and he was some kind of character, and I think he%u2019s gone too. See, I was a young guy and all these older friends I have. I don%u2019t have many more, you know. But that%u2019s--Jay Carroll, Spencer--he was an announcer there, and more, but I don%u2019t remember any of those names, I don%u2019t guess.
TF: Were there recordings made of much of that? Do you have any recordings of any of the shows?
BA: No, sir, I don%u2019t. They didn%u2019t do stuff like that too much. You had to do it live.
TF: Do you remember Alicia Bridges when she had a show there?
BA: Yeah, yeah. One time when she was going to high school, we hired her and she sang. We were going to do--we were older guys playing, and they hired us to do a prom. We hired Alicia and she came in and did that prom with us while she was a student. I knew her then. I don%u2019t know her since she got--. I%u2019d really hate it if she didn%u2019t stay in that thing because she had some kind of sound there. She was a nice girl. I just hate she didn%u2019t stay in the business %u2018cause I thought she had made it when she had that big hit.
TF: I think that was kind of a surprise hit. It wasn%u2019t even really the type of music that she had done.
BA: No, when she came out with it, I said, %u201CMy gosh! That%u2019s not the way I remember her.%u201D
TF: We%u2019re hoping maybe to talk to her sometime if we can get up with her. Well, anything else you want to say about--maybe even something that%u2019s not musical, but anything else about growing up in Shelby or being around the mill village? What did you do work-wise? Did you ever work in the mill?
BA: Yeah, yeah. I%u2019ve worked a lot of different jobs. I hate to go there, but until around the early seventies, all I could think about was music. When I came in off the road, I had to change all that, and I played around here, but I eventually just got out of it. But I enjoyed it. I mean, I have good memories and I met a lot of good people and everything. I%u2019ve taught guitar. I wanted a Gibson, so I taught a bunch of little boys around here.
TF: That%u2019s when you bought your Gibson guitar?
BA: Yeah, that %u201964 Gibson that you saw over there.
TF: Where did you live then when you were teaching?
BA: Oh, out on West Warren Street there.
TF: I thought you told me that. Which house was it? Do you remember the number?
BA: I don%u2019t remember the number, but it was the big--it was Doc Peeler%u2019s big old house out there, right beside the Harris-Teeter which later became the ABC store maybe. There%u2019s an apartment house there now. They tore it down.
TF: Okay, that house is gone.
BA: Yeah, it%u2019s gone, but we lived there for about five years. Then I bought one over in Eastside over there, and we stayed there for about seventeen years. Sounds like a lot of years there, doesn%u2019t it?
TF: And you live in Cherryville now. Is that right?
BA: Yeah, yeah. We%u2019ve been over there about twenty years. We have a few acres over there and dogs, cats, just enjoy a laid-back life.
TF: Sounds good. Anything else?
BA: There%u2019s probably more, but you%u2019ll have to ask, you know, if there%u2019s anything. But I do, I mean, I remember a lot. Seems like yesterday, but I remember when they built the bypass. Rode a bike on the dirt road and all and played on the bridges down there. And the park--oh, there%u2019s so many good memories there of us playing. Jerry Hill, the lifeguard, I remember him. He had a big old chest; he looked like Tarzan. That was a good thing. Whoever had that idea to bring this to pass did a lot of good for Shelby.
TF: I guess you remember the first opening of the park that we just celebrated?
BA: Oh, yeah, sure. Yeah, that%u2019s a long time ago. See, it was sixty years, right?
TF: That%u2019s right.
BA: See, I%u2019m seventy-one, so when they really opened it I was eleven years old. Eleven%u2019s real young, but I still have vivid memories of the music. The music coming out over that water was really something. You know, it just came right out, and I remember those songs.
TF: Did you ever travel on the train from Shelby? Did you ever go anywhere on the train or do you remember anything about the activity around the depots?
BA: No, I didn%u2019t. I remember talking about, but I%u2026
TF: %u2026The era was kind of coming to a close, I guess, in those days.
BA: Well, it was coming, but we never did have any reason to ride the train or anything. But I remember the train, sure.
TF: Steam ( ).
BA: Steam locomotives, yeah. The Southern--.
TF: Because it came right through South Shelby.
BA: It went down through there. Yeah. It went right--and that%u2019s the one I remember the most.
TF: How about the circus train? Do you remember the circus train?
BA: Oh, yeah. We went up there every year to watch them unload, yeah.
TF: It came right through town there, I guess, right through your neighborhood.
BA: It stopped down there [pause]%u2026
TF: %u2026Below J&K on%u2026
BA: %u2026yeah, right, yeah. I bought a lot of records from J&K too. Those people, they were really nice.
TF: Do you remember the hotel that was there. I believe there was a hotel right near there, the Southern Hotel?
BA: No, I don%u2019t remember.
TF: Or the passenger depot that%u2019s not there any more? You know, the freight depot is there. Do you remember the passenger depot? I%u2019m trying to figure out ( ).
BA: Well, I remember the depots there and the train stopping, but then we were just riding bikes, so we didn%u2019t pay a lot of attention. I wish I could--.
TF: You talked about the bluegrass and the--I guess in those days it wasn%u2019t split off into so many different types. There was just music, but do you remember blues musicians or African-Americans in the area that might have played particularly?
BA: I don%u2019t remember their names, but they came into Charlie%u2019s store and they taught me a few licks, yeah. I mean, I%u2019d watch them play and I learned some good old stuff [pause] from anybody that I could. These guys would, I learned, they would get Coke bottles, tops, sand them and everything and have them on their finger and play slide, you know, plus their E, and they could play slide and they could do it real well. They had all kinds of songs. They%u2019d write and everything, but they just walked the street with their guitars, you know.
TF: What about fiddlers or old-time music, sort of pre-bluegrass? Did you ever hear any clawhammer-type banjo and that sort of thing?
BA: Oh, yeah, there were several people around then. I don%u2019t remember their names.
TF: That was pretty common?
BA: Yeah, that was, %u2018til Earl came out with that three thing, that was--that, and tenor banjo, was what you heard. And the old clawhammer style, that was it. But Earl changed the whole world when he%u2026
TF: %u2026He did.
BA: My sister knew Earl, my older sister. They both worked at the Lily Mill together. He%u2019d bring his guitar and they would sing on their breaks. My sister would sing with him. She%u2019d tell me and I%u2019d say, %u201COh, okay.%u201D I mean, I was pretty young then and I didn%u2019t think too much about it.
TF: Well, he wasn%u2019t famous then, was he?
BA: No, ( ).
TF: Was he famous around here?
BA: He quit there and went out and made it. I remember them, Lester Flatt and Earl. All of them people would tell me after I moved away from down there. I lived in South Shelby and they would tell me at school, %u201CHey, we saw Earl and Lester coming through in a big old Cadillac down at the Lily Mill.%u201D I guess he wanted to see what it was like down there, but I guess no matter how high you go, you always remember where you came from. I met him once and he was a very humble type guy. He didn%u2019t act like he was the greatest or anything, though he was. I mean, he was the man. But he was just as humble when he%u2019d speak to you, and unassuming. He didn%u2019t put on any airs. Lester told us about him working in the mill too. He worked in a mill before he came into the music thing.
TF: Is that right?
BA: A lot of people did. That was about what we had, just the common fellows, you know. I hate to see textiles get out because it was such a great thing for this area.
TF: Yes, it%u2019s amazing to think about how many mills there were and how many were employed by some of the larger ones. Most of them had several hundred.
BA: Big. Cleveland Cloth.
TF: Yeah.
BA: J.P. Stevens. That was a big, good company there. Then the Dovers, boy, they had a nice deal. But I hope you can get something out of this, Tommy.
TF: Oh, this is great. I guess we%u2019ll wind things up. We%u2019ve probably taken about enough of your time for right now. You%u2019ve got other things to do, so I%u2019ll go ahead and turn this off and we might talk later, so--.
BA: Fine. That%u2019ll be fine.

END OF INTERVIEW
Mike Hamrick, April 20th, 2009