CHRIS CANOUTAS

TRANSCRIPT %u2013 CHRIS CANOUTAS
[Compiled September 6th, 2010]

Interviewee: CHRIS CANOUTAS

Interviewer: Rob Stephens

Interview Date: August 5th, 2010

Location: Shelby, North Carolina

Length: Approximately 35 minutes

ROB STEPHENS: If we could start out, you can just say your full name, your date of birth, and where we are right now.
CHRIS CANOUTAS: Chris Canoutas; March 30th, 1972; Shelby, North Carolina; Pleasant City Wood-Fired Grill.
RS: Great. [Begins filling out life history form] Is it Christopher?
CC: No, just Chris.
RS: Okay, and do you have a middle name?
CC: Nickolas.
RS: Okay. Is that Greek?
CC: Yes.
RS: [Gives more information and asks questions for life history form] Were you born here?
CC: Yes.
RS: Are you married?
CC: Yes.
RS: What%u2019s your wife%u2019s name?
CC: Nancy.
RS: Nancy Canoutas?
CC: Yes.
RS: All right. Do you have children?
CC: Yes, two girls.
RS: Okay, and could I get that now?
CC: Isabella and Alexi.
RS: What years were they born?
CC: Isabella is 11-7-01, November 7th, 2001; and Alexi is January 28th, 2006.
RS: Oh, wow. Congratulations. I%u2019ve got a nephew just about that age. And did you go to Shelby High or Crest?
CC: I did--Shelby High--graduated in 1990.
RS: And did you go off to college?
CC: East Carolina University, 1995.
RS: Did you do any other programs after that?
CC: No.
RS: And your occupational? Where you have worked since %u201995?
CC: All of them? [Laughter] RS: Is there a ton of them?
CC: There%u2019s quite a few, man.
RS: Let%u2019s just fudge a little bit--your major ones, maybe one or two.
CC: All right--manager of the Shelby Caf?.
RS: When were you there?
CC: %u201995 to %u201997. Lafayette Street Grill and Pub owner--1997-2001.
RS: That%u2019s Lafayette?
CC: Lafayette, just like the street.
RS: [Confirms spelling] CC: Then I moved to Raleigh and became a mortgage broker for about five years.
RS: And then did you come back here?
CC: Then I was the GM of Bricks in Chapel Hill for two years.
RS: Oh, really?
CC: Yes, from 2006 to 2008, and then Pleasant City Wood-Fired Grill owner, 2008 to current.
RS: Did you start this?
CC: Yes.
RS: Great.
CC: I%u2019d say I%u2019ve got quite a few there. [Laughter] RS: Great.
CC: I%u2019m well-rounded. [Laughter] RS: Yes, exactly, exactly. [Pause] So this is Rob Stephens interviewing Chris Canoutas. Today is August 5th, 2010. We are in Shelby, North Carolina, and I think I%u2019ve said everything I need to say.
CC: Okay.
RS: Oh, Pleasant City Wood-Fired Grill. Chris, oftentimes I just start off with this question, and I%u2019m going to try to move this because I see where it might go pretty quick, but I sometimes like to have people at least spend a little bit of time with their history a little bit further back, so I ask people, maybe you could tell me about your grandparents? You can start on your father%u2019s side or your mother%u2019s side.
CC: Okay. My father%u2019s side emigrated from Greece in the 1930s, I believe. My grandfather came over here. He started off as a bartender in New York, of all things. Okay, and then his family decided to move down South, and in North Carolina, and at the time, Shelby was the place to be. I mean, they had all the manufacturing plants. My grandfather started a restaurant in Shelby called Sanitary Lunch. That is currently where Joe%u2019s Place is, right down the road here. That%u2019s where I started Lafayette Street Grill and Pub in 1997. My father, my grandmother, and his three sisters came over six years later, and moved to Shelby.
RS: So they came straight here?
CC: They came straight here. My father worked with my grandfather at the Sanitary Lunch until they decided to sell it in the early sixties to own and operate the Shelby Caf? with my two uncles. Okay, so we have a lot of history on Lafayette Street.
RS: Yeah, I wouldn%u2019t have known that, but Emily (Epley) just told me about Shelby Caf?, actually.
CC: So, my grandfather owned Sanitary Lunch, my grandfather retires, sells that, goes to Shelby Caf?, okay? My dad and my two uncles, which was his brother-in-laws, ran the Shelby Caf? until we sold it in 1996. So, for thirty-six years, they ran it.
RS: Wow. I had my first livermush there.
CC: Yeah, you got to have livermush. [Laughter] So, basically, I grew up at the caf?, you know, literally. I mean, I grew up--I remember washing dishes, working with my dad since I was twelve years old, so that%u2019s how I actually got started into it. I have an older brother and older sister that didn%u2019t really like to hang out there, but I, for some reason, did. I just ended up engulfed in the whole restaurant industry. So, I%u2019d go away to college, went to East Carolina, graduated high school, worked in the caf? until I graduated high school, went off to college to East Carolina, came back in %u201995. I helped my dad manage it for a couple of years until he wanted to retire, and I didn%u2019t really want it at the time--stupid decision at the time, but I was young--live and learn. So I wanted to go do my own thing, so what I did was, I went back to my grandfather%u2019s building, which was across the street where I said they started the Sanitary Lunch, and in that same exact building my grandfather started the Sanitary Lunch, I started Lafayette Street Grill and Pub. So my dad sold his dad%u2019s business to go across the street to start the Shelby Caf?; we sold the Shelby Caf? and I went back across the street to open up Lafayette Street Grill and Pub. So with that, after that, I ran that successfully, pretty well for four years, and my wife and I decided to have a family, so I had to sell it, move to Raleigh to see what I could get out in Raleigh with my degree. So, I became a mortgage broker for five years, and five years of doing that, I just never really left the--I didn%u2019t really ever feel comfortable doing that, so I wanted to get back in the restaurant industry, along with the fact that the mortgage industry was crashing at the time. I thought it was a good time to get back into the hospitality industry and the restaurant industry, so I found a job as a GM of Bricks Wood-Fired Pizza in Chapel Hill. After working there for a couple of years, I came home one--you know, brought the kids home to see the grandparents. My father and I ride around downtown, like we usually do, just goofing off, and I saw where Ichabod%u2019s had burned down, which is where we are now; this used to be Ichabod%u2019s Eatery. My dad saw a big sign in the window. My dad was friends with the guy that owns the building, the family, the Ruckers, and at the time, I didn%u2019t know if I was interested in this building or really wanted to do anything or move back here at the time, because I was pretty happy in Chapel Hill working. But my dad said, %u201CJust call and see what the opportunity is,%u201D so I did. Will Rucker and I, the family that owns the building, hit it off so well, and I came up with a little bit of ideas of all my backgrounds, along with Bricks and Lafayette Street and wherever I%u2019ve worked in the past, and try to mold it all together. I came up with a menu and a situation for him and he loved it, and six months later we moved back to Shelby. So, here we are two years later. So that%u2019s an interesting story.
RS: Oh, yeah, definitely. And your mother%u2019s side of the family?
CC: My mother%u2019s side of the family is entirely in Greece still.
RS: Still?
CC: Still, to this day.
RS: Okay. And either of your--you say your father, is he still--?
CC: My father passed away last November the 10th.
RS: I%u2019m sorry to hear that. And what about your mother?
CC: My mother still lives here in Shelby.
RS: Okay. Do you all keep connections with her Greek family?
CC: Absolutely.
RS: Oh, they%u2019re all Greek, I guess, but the Greeks in Greece?
CC: Yeah, absolutely. My brother went this summer. I%u2019m planning to go next summer, hopefully, if I can get out of here for a couple of weeks. But yeah, we do, we keep in contact with everyone. My aunt was over after my father passed away, and she stayed for three or four months with my mother, so we keep in contact. We%u2019re still pretty close.
RS: So when people think about your father as the owner of Shelby (Caf?), what do you think people--what do you think his legacy is as the owner of Shelby?
CC: His legacy from working at the Shelby Caf? is--he was just a people person. Everybody knew him wherever you went; he would know them because he%u2019s been in business here for thirty-five years, which is incredible To keep one restaurant running for thirty-five years is amazing. I hope I%u2019m here in thirty-five years, you know? So, he knew everybody. Him, along with my uncles, the Shelby Caf? is just a staple in this town. I mean, it is down--if one restaurant is uptown Shelby, it%u2019s Shelby Caf?. It%u2019s been here from the 1920s before my dad bought it, so there was another Greek family, the Nicopoulos family, that owned that, so it%u2019s been here forever. Everybody knew he was a hard worker because he put in the hours. I didn%u2019t see him much when I was little, but when I grew up I understood why. He put us all through college: me, my brother and sister. He worked hard, so his legacy is probably a really hardworking guy and a good guy.
RS: And was your mother very involved with the caf??
CC: After we left for college, yes, she started working a little bit. But when we were all growing up, she was always a stay-at-home mother with us.
RS: And what about the Greek community in Shelby or in Cleveland County? I can%u2019t imagine that it%u2019s huge.
CC: It%u2019s not. It%u2019s not that big. Growing up here, I had two sets of--two families that were all our cousins, and they all worked at the caf?, so we all would go to the caf?. It was just like we lived right next to each other, so we had our little community, and at the time that was it.
RS: Oh, really?
CC: There%u2019s not really a big Greek community here, but there is a few now. We went to church every Sunday in Charlotte. We used to drive to the Greek Orthodox Church in Charlotte, so the Greek influence, growing up here, was right around in our family, hanging out with our cousins.
RS: What did it mean to you or your family to have that church in Charlotte?
CC: Oh, it meant a lot. I think my dad and my grandfather helped build it, volunteered to help build it, so it meant a lot. It was able to keep our Greek Orthodox. Without the church around, how would I know where we came from religion-wise? So my parents drove us; back then, there wasn%u2019t an 85 bypass, so it would take us an hour and fifteen minutes to get to Charlotte, but we went all the time, so he instilled that %u201Cthis is where we%u2019re from,%u201D and try to keep it in us.
RS: That%u2019s great. Were there many similar businessmen like your father at the church?
CC: Oh, yeah, all of them. Yeah, all Greek people are in restaurants, I guess. [Laughter] A lot of them.
RS: A lot of my friends growing up in Winston-Salem that were Greek, they--.
CC: They have restaurants too? Yeah.
RS: Great restaurants.
CC: Yeah, yeah. There%u2019s a big Greek community in Winston-Salem.
RS: Yeah, I love going to the festival. It%u2019s awesome.
CC: Oh, yeah.
RS: Such good food.
CC: Oh, yeah.
RS: Terrible parking.
CC: Terrible parking to go through it. That%u2019s right.
RS: Was there any sort of business--like, did your father do business with any of the other people through the church, or was it more just social?
CC: It was more social. All the business was here in Shelby; all those guys lived in Charlotte. There was only three of us that drove every Sunday to Charlotte, so it was all local. My dad did all the business with everybody around here, tried to keep everything within Cleveland County. You try to do all your business in Cleveland County because that%u2019s who%u2019s going to be your business. In the age of the internet now, that%u2019s hard to do, but I still think about every time he says that, to try and keep the business in here. You know, if somebody%u2019s got a piece of equipment that I can buy here, I will.
RS: Well, that%u2019s fantastic.
CC: Yeah.
RS: Did you or your father or your grandfather ever talk about, well, initially, with your grandfather coming here, having any sort of resistance from the local white Protestant--? Or, maybe a little stand-offish?
CC: I%u2019m not real sure about my grandfather; I knew my dad didn%u2019t. My dad, I mean, he came over when he was fourteen, so he was young. He went to Shelby High too, and he sort of grew up here, but to be even sure, you know, my grandfather passed away in the early sixties before I was born, so I never really had any of those conversations about that with my dad, so I%u2019m not real sure. I%u2019m not real sure, but I know that my grandfather did a really good business, and some of his customers still come in here today and say how they used to love going down there.
RS: Oh, wow.
CC: So, I mean, that%u2019s pretty neat.
RS: Yeah, definitely. And this all might be irrelevant questions, but did your grandfather or your father ever talk about interacting with mill-town folks?
CC: Oh, all the time. I mean, Shelby was the epitome of a mill town. We had Doran Mills; we had all kinds of different mills. Even up to in the eighties, they were still all going. It was in the nineties when they all started going overseas or to Mexico, and everything just shut down. So my uncle used to open up the Shelby Caf? at two-thirty in the morning to get the people that were getting ready to go in first shift and getting the people that get off third shift. You know, it was important. I don%u2019t understand why we just didn%u2019t keep it open twenty-four hours a day, because we would be full of policemen at three o%u2019clock in the morning, and then the third shift would come off, and everybody would know everybody because that%u2019s where they came to eat after work. You know, if the third shift was over, then they would come into the caf? and eat before they went home and went to bed. So my Uncle Bill used to be at the caf?, with doors unlocked, at two-thirty in the morning. So, yeah, all the interaction, everything went around the guys that were working at the mills, their timetables, so we could feed them. They understood the mill workers, absolutely.
RS: Yeah, probably good business sense.
CC: Yeah.
RS: Did you go to high school with some mill-working families, or were they mostly phased out?
CC: Gosh, you know, that--I was in high school from %u201987 to %u201990, so your--probably a few. Not that I really knew at the time in high school; I didn%u2019t really know. But I%u2019m still--there was a few, yeah, that were engineers and stuff like that in Doran Mills or whatever it was at the time--Kosa mills or whatever it was at the time. Yeah, so I mean, I remember growing up with them.
RS: And I know you probably talk about the economic impact of the mills closing, but in addition to the economic, have you seen the cultural-social impact of the mills being closed in the nineties?
CC: When the mills closed in the nineties, our unemployment rate went through the roof. I think people started moving. I know they work out of town.
RS: Did you say employment or unemployment?
CC: Our unemployment skyrocketed.
RS: Yeah, yeah.
CC: Our unemployment skyrocketed because you%u2019re talking hundreds of jobs, and that%u2019s really important to a little town like this. You know, it%u2019s funny that we%u2019re saying that. Back then, people were going out of town; I think they were driving wherever just to work. I know, several of my friends that I graduated college wanted to come back here, but you couldn%u2019t find the work. You had to drive to Charlotte; you had to drive to Spartanburg; you had to drive to Greenville, South Carolina, just to work. When we sold the Lafayette Street Grill and Pub in 2001, that%u2019s what made us move to Raleigh, because the job opportunities here were not good. Not good. But with that being said, it%u2019s actually coming back around to where now we just landed our first big plant again, Clearwater Paper, that%u2019s going to employ four hundred people. That will be huge; it%u2019s huge to this county, along with a couple of other deals that I hope are working right now. We need those type of jobs.
RS: Was Shelby Caf? an integrated or segregated caf??
CC: Back in the sixties?
RS: Um-hmm.
CC: Oh, yeah, it was segregated.
RS: Were you born when--?
CC: %u201972, so no, it was integrated after that.
RS: Do you remember some of your father%u2019s stories?
CC: Oh, yeah.
RS: What were some of his experiences with integration?
CC: That all the cooks had to stay in the kitchen. They couldn%u2019t come out of the kitchen doors. They ate back there, everything. I remember him telling me about that, and some of the customers would get mad if they saw any black guy, African-American guy walking down, going out the front door. Back then, yeah, I remember him telling me stories about it.
RS: Did he tell you about the time when it started--was it a situation where black folks could get food in the back?
CC: See, I%u2019m not real sure because he never really told me about that. I think they did that. They possibly did serve them out of the back. I remember him telling a few stories a long time ago, but I don%u2019t remember him saying that much about it.
RS: Did he tell you about when it did integrate? Was it just kind of an easy transition or was there--?
CC: He didn%u2019t really go into detail about the transition. I never really asked him, growing up. I didn%u2019t really get into that with him, to be honest with you, so I don%u2019t really know the exact history of when he integrated or if he fed people out the back. I do remember the kitchen being in the back, and him saying how the cooks that were African-American couldn%u2019t come out of the front.
RS: Interesting, but hopefully, we%u2019ll find out more--I%u2019m sure they have already--about if there were sit-ins and stuff here. My interviews in Chapel Hill are mainly around that--African-American community issues.
CC: Oh, really?
RS: One person got peed on by a woman.
CC: Oh, my gosh.
RS: It was ugly there.
CC: Yeah, I%u2019ll bet.
RS: [Pause] Oh, yeah, you%u2019re under the category of--not to categorize you, but--of 21st Century, so kind of moving forward in Cleveland County, one of the questions is what the impact of Latino immigration here in Shelby and Cleveland County has been? You made me think of it because of the African-American workers in the kitchen were often--I know in Chapel Hill, it%u2019s almost all Latino now.
CC: When I moved here to Shelby, it%u2019s the first time I%u2019ve ever, since leaving Shelby, been in the kitchen where there were no Latinos. There were none. They were either African-American or just Caucasian. This is the first time, and I went around to a lot of kitchens and it was the same way, so I don%u2019t know if the Latino population now--I%u2019ve got a couple of Latino guys that work in the kitchen for me, but there%u2019s not many Latinos around that I%u2019ve personally seen come through these doors looking for work. Now, there%u2019s plenty in the fields--you know, picking strawberries at Spake%u2019s Strawberries, or blueberries or whatever they%u2019re picking or this and that, but I have not seen a lot of people. Right now, I think I have three Latinos and it%u2019s the most I%u2019ve ever had in two years. As in Chapel Hill--as in Chapel Hill when I worked for two years, I had one guy that knew English--everybody was Latino.
RS: Yeah.
CC: Everybody, I mean everybody.
RS: That%u2019s really interesting; I had no idea it was like that.
CC: Yeah, it%u2019s not that big of a Latino population here, that I know of, looking for work in the restaurant industry. Because, compared to Chapel Hill, Raleigh, the entire--everybody%u2019s--all kitchens are Latino.
RS: Wow, I didn%u2019t expect that, but that%u2019s--.
CC: So, Latino in this industry has definitely impacted it. The whole kitchen staff, they%u2019ve taken over. They have taken over.
RS: But not in Shelby?
CC: Not here as much, and I don%u2019t know.
RS: It%u2019s just a little mind-boggling.
CC: I know, I just, like, for the first two years, I%u2019m like, %u201CWhere%u2019s all the Latino guys?%u201D I mean, where are they working? You know what I mean? Because I could not find any. I mean, I could not find any.
RS: Wow. This might be a little of a generic question, but what do think has been the best and worst thing that%u2019s changed over the years since your dad was running--or when your granddad was running the Sanitary Lunch?
CC: The best thing that%u2019s changed is probably when they allowed us to serve alcohol in 1992?
RS: What?
CC: They allowed us to serve--we were a dry county until 1992.
RS: Oh, wow.
CC: So you couldn%u2019t go to a restaurant and buy a beer until 1992 in Shelby, North Carolina, so that changed everything.
RS: I bet it did.
CC: That brought us decent restaurants; that brought us more restaurants out on the highway. All those restaurants, if alcohol by the drink didn%u2019t pass, there would be no Applebee%u2019s; there would be no Ruby Tuesday%u2019s; there would be no--. You know, there would be none of those--Fatz--you know, none of those chain restaurants would be here.
RS: Do you know any of the context or did people just kind of just realize that for the economy%u2019s sake, you have to do it?
CC: Yeah, I think people just realized it%u2019s time to move forward for the economy%u2019s sake to bring some stuff to Shelby. If you want people to move here and work here and live here, you%u2019re going to need this sort of thing.
RS: %u201992, wow.
CC: Because 1992, I would not have even thought about coming back here after college, because there was absolutely nothing to do.
RS: And so what do you think the worst thing is that%u2019s changed since your grandfather started his business or ran his business?
CC: I wish we could become another--we used to be a great mill town, manufacturing town. I wish that could happen again. I think it%u2019s on the way back. Hopefully, they will choose Cleveland County because we have plenty of room for them, you know, our unemployment rate. We just need jobs here. We used to have them here, and if you go back and you look at all the old pictures of this and that, you can see where downtown is absolutely packed with people. I think more jobs will bring more independent businesses to uptown, and the trickle-down effect of those will happen. You know, if you have a job and you want to move here and you%u2019re making a decent salary, then you might want to buy a house. You might want to fix up that house, so that will help the mortgage brokers, help the contractors, and put money in those guys%u2019 pockets, which trickle down to people just coming out and spending money. It just helps the economy in the county as a whole, and that%u2019s what we need. The loss of all those jobs was tremendous. I mean, it killed us. All those plants shutting down, you%u2019re talking about hundreds of people losing their work, so right now, what%u2019s our biggest employer is the hospital and school system.
RS: That%u2019s true in a lot of places, I bet.
CC: Yeah, so we need other avenues of income here. When I heard the Clearwater Paper plant was coming, I was thrilled.
RS: Yeah, that%u2019s exciting.
CC: That%u2019s what we need. It%u2019s the trickle-down effect; we need that stuff.
RS: We just got Caterpillar in Winston-Salem to open up an almost five-hundred-million dollar plant.
CC: Oh, really?
RS: Yeah, and then they%u2019re expanding into Cary or something. And did you have much interaction with the--because there%u2019s that Shelby political power--people, you know, all these powerful politicians came from Shelby, and senators and governors and all that?
CC: Did I have any interaction? No.
RS: Okay. I think, probably by the time you were around, it was more%u2026
CC: %u2026Earlier%u2026
RS: %u2026mid-century and earlier. Second-to-last question: What do you think and what do you want--you kind of talked about this already--for Shelby or the Shelby that your daughters will grow up in, in something like ten, fifteen, twenty years? What%u2019s best-case scenario? What%u2019s a worst-case scenario?
CC: Best-case scenario is more plants like Clearwater Paper will come in. People will come to this town. People will make a good living in this town; therefore, having more independent businesses come uptown to open up, okay? My vision of uptown is to be the central business district. You know, the highway is for people going through, in and out from Charlotte to Asheville, okay? But I want the people of Shelby who work and live here to utilize downtown as the central business district, whether it%u2019s to come out to eat, buy clothes, get your insurance, do whatever, whether it%u2019s go shopping or whatever. With more jobs, like I say, with the Clearwater Paper plant, then more people will come into Shelby and it will build it up, so the more opportunity when my daughters graduate college, they have a chance to come back. Now, the worst-case scenario is nothing is going to happen; it%u2019s going to stay like it is, and when my daughters graduate college, there will be no reason to come back. I had one good reason to come back here, and that was an opportunity to go in business for myself and that%u2019s why I did it. That%u2019s probably the only reason I would have done it. I%u2019d probably still be in Raleigh because I know I couldn%u2019t have just come back and found a job, or I would have had to commute to Charlotte or somewhere else to do that. So, that%u2019s the best-case scenario it is, that%u2019s there%u2019s plenty of jobs to give someone fifteen years down the road like my daughters when they graduate from Carolina or wherever%u2026
RS: %u2026Amen [laughter]%u2026
CC: %u2026to come back here and find a good-paying job, and live here and raise a family here, because it is a great place to raise a family. It is a great place. You know, the one thing Shelby has is a great school system. I%u2019m glad I%u2019m out of Raleigh%u2019s school system, so glad I%u2019m out of there. Thank God that I don%u2019t live in Charlotte and have to go to public school in Charlotte or send my kids to public school in Charlotte. Shelby%u2019s public school system is great. You know, I grew up here; my daughters are doing really well in it, so that%u2019s the best-case scenario, and the worst-case, nothing happens and nobody ever comes here, and it%u2019s just going to stay as it is. We need more stuff to come here.
RS: The last question is usually is there anything that I didn%u2019t ask or that you would want to talk about that you think would be important? Just so that you know, this is going to be at the Earl Scruggs Center. That%u2019s what they interview for, so excerpts of this may be used there in the exhibit. There%u2019s going to be a 21st Century room where people like you and other business owners--. Like, I%u2019m interviewing the owners of the Indian restaurant tomorrow, so that%u2019s where new people coming in--. I also interviewed Earl Scruggs%u2019 sister-in-law, who%u2019s eighty-five, so I%u2019m not entirely sure of the category. But anything that you think people at the Earl Scruggs Center would want to know or that you think that I kind of left out of this?
CC: I%u2019m not sure of what they want to know. I mean, I%u2019ll be honest with you. I%u2019m not sure that people that are going to see that theme, whether they are going to be looking for--.
RS: Well, you%u2019ve already done a pitch, I guess a pitch, for Shelby.
CC: Yeah, I%u2019m definitely pitching Shelby, you know? I want this place to stay the same, but I want it to have a lot of stuff inside of it--somewhere for people to work, people to shop. Yeah, I want everybody downtown; that would be great. I%u2019m not just saying that just to benefit my business, which it would, but just growing up here--man, I grew up here, right on this road, up and down--Shelby Caf?, Lafayette Street, here. So I%u2019ve been in three locations right here on this same strip of road. So yeah, I want more jobs to come into Shelby. I want everybody in Shelby to have a good-paying job. It%u2019s like the trickle-down effect so we can just boost our economy because I think it%u2019s a great place. I think our city council is headed in the right direction. There%u2019s great people on that council right now, with wide-open minds, willing to listen to whatever, and that%u2019s a good thing. That%u2019s a good thing, and that%u2019s come a long way.
RS: Okay.
CC: That%u2019s come a long way.
RS: Okay. Well, great.
CC: I mean, that%u2019s about it though.
RS: Well, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.
CC: No problem, man. No problem. I hope I helped you out.
RS: Oh, you certainly did. You certainly did, and they definitely said you%u2019d be an excellent person to talk to, and that%u2019s been true.

END OF INTERVIEW
Transcribed by Mike Hamrick, September 6th, 2010
Edited by Pat Watson, April 23rd, 2011
Sound Quality: Good