CLAUDE AND MADGE HARRIS

TRANSCRIPT %u2013 CLAUDE HARRIS
[Compiled September 23rd, 2010]

Interviewee: CLAUDE HARRIS

Interviewer: Drew Ritchey

Interview Date:

Location: Boiling Springs, North Carolina

Length: Approximately 78 minutes

DREW RITCHEY: I am Andrew Ritchey and I%u2019m here interviewing Claude Harris in his home in Boiling Springs, North Carolina. If you wouldn%u2019t mind, just introduce yourself with your name and then also a place and date of birth.
CLAUDE HARRIS: I%u2019m Claude Harris and I was born in Cherokee County, South Carolina, 1922.
DR: Do you remember the date?
CH: [Pause] June the 26th, 1922. [Laughter] DR: [Laughter] All right. And we%u2019re here also with your wife? And what%u2019s your name, ma%u2019am?
MADGE HARRIS: Madge Harris.
DR: Madge Harris?
MH: Yes.
DR: And place and date of birth too?
MH: I was born here in Boiling Springs. I was born November the 12th, 1926.
DR: Thank you so much. Okay. So, Claude, how long have you lived in Cleveland County?
CH: Let%u2019s see. [Laughter] MH: Ever since we got married. [Laughter] CH: We got married in [pause]. Done forgot what year it was. What was it? %u201943?
MH: Yeah.
CH: Seemed like we was married in %u201943, I think. [Laughter] DR: That%u2019s a long time.
CH: We got married on April Fool%u2019s Day. [Laughter] That%u2019d be good news, won%u2019t it?
DR: So you came from South Carolina to Boiling Springs, then?
CH: Um-hmm.
DR: What was it like, coming to Cleveland County? How was it--was it different from--?
CH: I couldn%u2019t tell much different because I was raised on the farm, and our line was the North and South Carolina line. I was raised just a few yards from the North Carolina line, so I%u2019ve been in and out of South Carolina and North Carolina too, but I was raised almost on the line.
DR: And then you moved when you got married?
CH: Um-hmm.
DR: When you first moved to Cleveland County, you said it wasn%u2019t that different. Your wife is from the area?
MH: Um-hmm.
DR: Did you feel at home pretty quickly then?
CH: Oh, yeah. I went to high school here in Boiling Springs.
DR: What was that like?
CH: Well, I don%u2019t think there would have been any difference if I had been born in North Carolina because I was in and out of both states just about all the time, you know.
DR: Do you have any high school memories, like any fun high school memories, any favorite moments?
CH: Not as I can remember. That%u2019s been so long ago [laughter] I can%u2019t remember too much about it, really.
DR: Okay. So does anything really stand out for you from growing up? Any places or memories, growing up in the area?
CH: [Pause] I was raised on the farm, and I%u2019ve had different kinds of jobs to do, you know? Done sawmill work, cotton mill work, and wound up with Bost Bakery as a salesman for twenty-three-and-a-half years, and I retired in %u201976.
DR: What was it like working in the mills?
CH: Pretty dirty. [Laughter] The cotton mill was really dirty. You get cotton all over you, you know, and it was rough.
DR: So what did you do in the cotton mill?
CH: Doff spinning. I started out as a sweeper and worked my way up to a doffer, and worked there a few years.
DR: Did you know the people you were working with pretty well?
CH: Well, I got acquainted with them after I worked with them a while. I didn%u2019t know them until I started working in the mill.
DR: Okay. Can you tell me anything about your family from growing up?
CH: Well, my mother was born in Gaffney, South Carolina, and Daddy was born in the same place I was in Cherokee County. I don%u2019t remember the dates or anything.
MH: We%u2019ve got a calendar somewhere, don%u2019t we?
CH: I doubt it. We%u2019d never find it if it%u2019s (5:09).
MH: Okay.
DR: Did you have brothers and sisters or anything?
CH: I had one brother. He got killed in Italy during World War II.
DR: Did your family have any traditions or anything like that? You grew up on a farm; were there any sort of traditions that you celebrated?
CH: Not as I know of.
DR: You played guitar with Don Gibson. When did you first start playing music? Where were you? Do you remember anything?
CH: Well, when I was real young I bought me a guitar. One of my neighbors taught me the chords on it, and he played Hawaiian music--Rob Green--and he was [pause] he was a lot older than I was. He had been around. He had been in the Navy, I think, and he%u2019d been around quite a bit. He picked up the Hawaiian music when he was in the Navy in Hawaii, and he taught me to play the guitar with him.
DR: So you%u2019re in the South and you%u2019re learning how to play Hawaiian guitar? [Laughter] CH: [Laughter] He taught me that. He picked it up while he was in the Navy, and that%u2019s where I got started playing the steel guitar rather than rhythm guitar.
DR: Do you remember his name? Do you remember your neighbor%u2019s name?
CH: Rob Green.
DR: Rob Green. Thanks.
CH: Yeah, he%u2019s been dead now for several years, him and his wife both. He was about as old as my parents were.
DR: You said you bought it yourself; where did you get the money from?
CH: Oh, my daddy bought it. It was five dollars is what it cost. [Laughter] That%u2019s a five dollar red guitar. And I wound up backing the car over it and busting it all to pieces.
DR: How did that happen?
CH: I just put it down behind the car when I opened the car shed to back the car out, forgot about it, and went back over it. It splintered it up. [Laughter] DR: So how long had you owned it before you ran over it?
CH: I guess three or four years, maybe. I don%u2019t know, just forgot. That%u2019s been a long time.
DR: So when you first picked up the guitar, you were ten, fifteen, or what?
CH: I guess about ten or twelve, maybe along in there somewhere.
DR: So you had your neighbor teaching you Hawaiian guitar?
CH: Well, he just taught me to chord. He played the Hawaiian music. He taught me to play the rhythm guitar with him.
DR: Did you have any other teachers or influences?
CH: No, that%u2019s the only one that I%u2019ve had, I reckon.
DR: So how did you first meet Don? How did you go from playing Hawaiian guitar to--?
CH: I was working at Cleveland Sandwich Company at that time, on a sandwich route. I%u2019d go through Shelby every day, and I knew Don and the group that he played with. I%u2019d listen at them a lot on the radio, and they kept advertising for a steel player. So one day I got up the nerve to go by and talk to him. I was on my way home off of my route, and he told me to come home and get my guitar and come back over there and we%u2019d play some. I went home, checked in, and got my guitar and went back over there. He wanted me to join, and so I did. I played with them for a long time.
DR: It must have been kind of scary, going from your sandwich route to [laughter] playing for Don Gibson.
CH: Well, I never did play where--I never did make no money at it because this is all just when he first started out. In fact, Don, he was a janitor at the radio station at that time. It was in the late forties, or maybe early fifties or late forties, somewhere along in there [pause] because I had an old %u201940 Chevrolet that I had to drive. So I don%u2019t remember how many years I played with him, maybe one or two--maybe two. I don%u2019t know how long it was.
MH: Until he went to Nashville, wasn%u2019t it?
CH: Yeah, he--well, [pause] he left Shelby and went to Knoxville, Tennessee on that show. I believe they called it the Merry-Go-Round, if I ain%u2019t mistaken. It was on around twelve o%u2019clock or some time around dinner time. When he left there, that was the first step, I guess, to his big success, I guess.
DR: What was it like playing with him?
CH: Oh, he was a fine fellow. Yeah, he was nice, and we got along fine. We%u2019ve had some good times together. We made a mountain trip together one time, me and my wife and her sister. We made some pictures; we tried to find them but we couldn%u2019t find them. Ain%u2019t no telling where they are, but they%u2019re here somewhere. That%u2019s been many, many moons ago. [Laughter] DR: So, what happened on the trip?
CH: We just rode right up the mountain and just looked at the scenery, enjoyed ourselves.
DR: Do you have any other favorite memories of that time?
CH: Not as I can remember--plenty of them, I guess, but I can%u2019t think of them.
DR: Did you play some shows?
CH: I didn%u2019t with Don. I did with a group that I grew up with around here. Several friends around here, we played in a--I was in a couple of shows one time. We went and played around at the schoolhouses and different places like that.
DR: So that%u2019s after Don left for Tennessee?
CH: This was way before I ever met Don. That was back when I was just a teenager. It was a group that I played with. We had some more players, you know, and had [pause] mixed-up music, had some bluegrass in it, and then it had the Hawaiian music and had a--played, went along with it. We had a lot of fun with that.
DR: Did you have favorite styles to play in or any favorite songs that you liked playing?
CH: Well, it was mostly country, country classics or something like that. I enjoyed them very well.
DR: So you played with Don for a year or two, right?
CH: Um-hmm. I forget just how long it was.
MH: Until they went to Knoxville, I thought, wasn%u2019t it?
CH: Yeah. I forget what year it was he left.
DR: What did you do after he left?
CH: I was on the bread route for Bost Bakery. I had to give up my music %u2018cause it took all my time on the bread wagon. Well, I didn%u2019t give it up. I still played with some friends--at home, that%u2019s all--and still tinkered with it a little bit but not much. Got too old now to do any good with it.
DR: So how often were you playing?
CH: We%u2019d just get together just whenever--call one another or somehow got together and we played some.
DR: Is there anything unique about--? I mean, it%u2019s not everywhere in the world that people just kind of get together and play some music for fun with some friends. Is there anything unique about Cleveland County that allows people to do that, that sort of supports music in that sort of way?
CH: I guess that people like country music through here. They supported stuff like that pretty good, as far as I knew. I never was no real good musician. I didn%u2019t get out like the guys that was making a living doing that. We played in public places once in a while and enjoyed it.
DR: So it was for love, not for money, then?
CH: Yeah, that%u2019s right. [Laughter] Yeah, I didn%u2019t feel myself as being a musician good enough to get money for it, I just enjoyed it.
DR: You were talking you worked at the bakery, on the bread route, right?
CH: Um-hmm.
DR: What all did you do with that? What all were your responsibilities and things?
CH: Well, the first thing, I had to get the nerve to get up at three o%u2019clock in the morning. [Laughter] I had my truck at home all the time with me, and I had to get up early enough to take it to the bakery and unload it and then reload it, check up in the office, and then start out on my route. It was long hours, but I enjoyed meeting the people. We had some good customers and we all got along just fine. I made a lot of good friends on the bread route.
DR: So did you deliver to stores or to individuals?
CH: Yeah, stores, and I worked schools in Cleveland and Rutherford County. I delivered bread at Gardner-Webb College and the schools here and in Rutherford County, Mooresboro School, Ellenboro, Bostic, Sunshine, Golden Valley School, along with the grocery stores. I had about an eighty or ninety mile route, I guess, counting the whole territory that I covered every day.
DR: What sort of bread was it?
CH: Bost Bread.
MH: Worked for Bost Bakery.
CH: I%u2019m sure you%u2019re familiar with them. They%u2019re not in business any more, but they had a good product and it sold good. It sold itself, really. We didn%u2019t have to do anything except work at it to keep it fresh and do the job, and it took care of itself. Yeah, I had a good business.
DR: You were there for twenty-three years, you said?
CH: Um-hmm, twenty-three-and-a-half years. I retired in %u201976.
DR: Do you have any stories from that time? Any good memories or things?
CH: Oh, I guess if I could think of them. There%u2019s a lot of them if I could think of them. I can%u2019t think of any of them right now. I know a lot of times in the bad weather we had pretty good stories, break down or something like that, we%u2019d have to unload our broke-down truck and put it on another truck and something like that, you know. That was pretty rough in the beginning, but I hadn%u2019t been there many years %u2018til Bost got their own garage and serviceman, and they kept the trucks in good shape and got better trucks, and finally got to where that wasn%u2019t a problem. So we had good trucks and everything was fine.
DR: Did you ever get stuck in the snow or anything like that?
CH: Oh, yeah, I%u2019ve had plenty--had to be pulled out a few times.
DR: Can you tell me about one of those times?
MH: Tell him about the woman that helped you.
CH: Yeah, I got stuck up one time on a big long hill and I couldn%u2019t make the hill. I went out to this house and asked the lady could I use her telephone to call for help. If we got in any trouble, we%u2019d call and they%u2019d sent a wrecker to pull us in, or get us out or whatever. She says, %u201CWouldn%u2019t a tractor pull that thing out of the snow?%u201D I said, %u201CYou got a tractor?%u201D She said, %u201CYeah, I got a tractor.%u201D I said, %u201CWho%u2019s going to drive?%u201D She said, %u201CI%u2019ll drive it!%u201D [Laughter] We got on that tractor and went out there and she pulled me up the hill with it. [Laughter] Drug me about, I guess about--over a half a mile, I guess, %u2018til I got out of the hilly part, you know, where I could make it. [Laughter] That%u2019s one experience I%u2019ve had.
DR: That%u2019s great.
CH: There%u2019s a bunch of them, I guess, if I could just think of them.
DR: That%u2019s really funny.
CH: [Laughter] DR: So the people in Cleveland County, if you get stuck on a hill, you can count on a tractor coming out to save you?
CH: [Laughter] Yeah. Yeah, that was really luck I had to get some help that easy. But I did meet the wrecker before I got too far away, but I had done got out of my--up the hill, where I could go without having any help, but they got there to get me if they had had to, but they didn%u2019t have to.
DR: I don%u2019t mean to pry into your personal life or anything like that too much, but did you go to church or anything like that?
CH: Yeah, we belong to First Baptist here at Boiling Springs.
DR: Okay. And did you ever do music with them?
CH: No, not really. I used to a long time ago, me and some of the boys that are friends. They are dead and gone now, that we played once in a while for some of the activities that they had, but I haven%u2019t done that in a long time.
DR: What sort of activities?
CH: I don%u2019t even remember now. The first time, I remember we played on the outside. I forget, now, what it was about. It was a whole group of people that played for raising money or some kind of activity the first time I did that. And several times, we maybe just played inside during the service a time or two. I remember me and one of my friends, I believe it was a Sunday night service one time, for he%u2019s dead now. He played a harp and he was real good, and we played in the church that time and some more times I can%u2019t remember. But I%u2019ve done got too old for that sort of thing now. [Laughter] DR: So you%u2019ve been retired since %u201976, you said?
CH: %u201976.
DR: What have you been up to since then?
CH: Well, I took a course in TV servicing, and I went into the TV servicing business after I retired from the bakery. I had a heart attack in %u201983, and the doctor wouldn%u2019t let me do any heavy lifting, so I%u2019d have to get somebody to do all my lifting. That got to be a problem, so I just retired, give it up.
DR: So full retirement?
CH: [Laughter] DR: Your first retirement wasn%u2019t really a retirement.
CH: It was kind of, I have to be, I guess you could say.
DR: What sort of changes have you noticed in the area since you moved here? Has it changed much?
CH: Oh, yeah. Gardner-Webb has expanded and is still expanding, and the development areas, I guess you would call it, where they built a lot of homes and it%u2019s been built up. It%u2019s big, big change to what it used to be.
DR: You live pretty close to Gardner-Webb right now. Have you had any relationships with the university in any way? Like, have you done anything there before? Do college students stomp over your lawn ever?
CH: No, they%u2019re good to us at the college down there because they%u2019ve got a walking track they let us use. It don%u2019t cost anything to go out there and walk. It%u2019s really handy to have a good place to get out of the bad weather if you need to walk and get your exercise. It%u2019s just really good.
DR: So the university is a positive aspect of Cleveland County for you?
CH: Yeah, they let everybody that wants to, I guess, go down there and walk, and it don%u2019t cost them anything. That%u2019s a good favor for the county or anybody that wants to do that. They%u2019ve opened it up to the public to go down there and walk. Now, unless they%u2019re having some special events that are going on, they close the walking track, but they hardly ever do that. If they do, that%u2019s their business. They%u2019ve got the right to do that. [Laughter] DR: Has the area changed, I mean, other than the university much? Are the people the same?
CH: Not much, only the housing. People have built houses all around and it%u2019s a lot of difference in what they used to be outside the town. They%u2019ve still just got one stoplight. [Laughter] I think they need one or two more though, with the traffic we have through here.
DR: So where do you see Cleveland County going, and Boiling Springs going in the future? How do you think it%u2019s going to look in ten years?
CH: They%u2019re still growing, growing, just keep growing. Gardner Webb%u2019s expanding all the time. They built some nice apartment buildings down here and they%u2019ve enlarged their baseball field and built that new football stadium down there. Now, they%u2019ve put up a building with a sign that goes into the college. They haven%u2019t opened it up yet, but it%u2019s going to be nice. So they just keep going, expanding.
DR: Talking about the baseball field, were you into sports when you were a kid at all?
CH: When I was in grammar school I played on the baseball team a little bit. I never was too good at it.
DR: So what did you do when you weren%u2019t at school? Were you just working at the farm or what?
CH: Yeah, farming, yeah. I was raised on the farm and grew up on the farm [pause] %u2018til I got married. Ever since I got married and had to go get a job and go to work. I had to have a little bit of money to spend, you know.
DR: What did you farm? What did your family farm?
CH: It was over in the edge of South Carolina. Let%u2019s see how to explain that. Are you familiar with the country over there across the river in the edge of South Carolina?
DR: Not really.
CH: You know where the Duke Power plant is. Well, the farm is back this side, in the edge of South Carolina, I guess about three or four miles from the Duke Power plant, just roughly guessing, that is.
DR: Yeah. And what did you farm? What sort of crops did you grow?
CH: Cotton, corn, wheat and oats, and whatever. We didn%u2019t have a tractor; we just had mules that we worked with. We had to grow feed for them. That was about it that we grew--raised hogs and stuff like that.
DR: So did your parents sell the farm then eventually
CH: Well, my parents, when they passed away I inherited part of it. I had a cousin that owned part of it, and I sold my part after I moved to Boiling Springs. My first cousin, he still owns his part of it.
DR: I%u2019m just trying to get a sort of basic timeline of all the jobs that you%u2019ve had. So you worked at the farm, and then?
CH: Done sawmill work.
DR: And sawmill work, and then did you do the cotton mill after that?
CH: Cotton mill work, um-hmm.
DR: And then you came over to Boiling Springs.
CH: I went from the sawmill work to Cleveland Sandwich Company. I worked for them on a route and then went to Bost Bakery.
DR: And that%u2019s when you met Don Gibson, on the sandwich route?
CH: [Laughter] Yeah, um-hmm, that%u2019s right.
DR: How did you meet your wife?
CH: Her brother married a girl from over there in the community where I grew up, and they got me, one time, to bring them back home where she lived and was raised, and I met her over there. I guess that was the first time I saw her when I brought them home and she was there.
DR: Do you remember what you were thinking when you first saw her?
CH: Not really. [Laughter] That%u2019s been a long time too.
DR: What happened between first meeting her and deciding to make her your wife?
CH: We dated for about a year, didn%u2019t we?
MH: Um-hmm.
CH: About a year, I guess. We dated about a year before we got married, somewhere around that.
DR: Going back a little bit, back to the music with Don. You said you went to the mountains with him.
CH: Yeah, we took a mountain trip one time.
DR: So you were pretty all-right friends, then?
CH: Yeah, and he went with me one time on my sandwich route.
DR: He went on your sandwich route?
CH: Um-hmm, I went by his house and picked him up. I had to get up early on that job too, you know? I picked him up, and my sandwich route at that time--well, I just count from Shelby on because I had already done part of it before I got to Shelby, then I picked him up in Shelby and went to Grover, Kings Mountain, Bessemer City, Gastonia, Cramerton, Belmont, Mt. Holly, Stanley, and Dallas and back. Back then, they didn%u2019t have what you call cafeterias. They called them %u201Cdope stands%u201D back then, and they didn%u2019t have food now like they used to have.
DR: What did they used to have?
CH: Well, the sandwiches that they made, we%u2019d pack them up in boxes. We had standing orders, and we%u2019d deliver them to the cotton mills and set them off early before the first shift come. The guys that%u2019s running--they called them dope wagons--they%u2019d get the sandwiches and put them on their dope wagon and then people would eat them. It was a huge thing then, because they had about five different trucks and five different routes down here. It was a pretty big thing.
DR: So what kind of sandwiches were they?
CH: She worked there. I kindly was--I just sold them; I didn%u2019t pay much attention to them. Pimiento, ham, and stuff like that.
DR: You delivered them to all the mills and things?
MH: I just made peanut butter, put it on peanut butter crackers.
CH: There was a good variety of them. I can%u2019t remember the names of all of them now. They sold good. We%u2019d deliver them, the way I did on my route, was deliver them every morning except on Friday morning, I%u2019d stop when I got around, and I%u2019d come back and do my collecting for the whole week. That saved a lot of time having to do that every day. That way it works out pretty good.
DR: And they were called dope trucks? D-O-P-E?
CH: Huh?
DR: Like D-O-P-E, %u201Cdope%u201D?
CH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
DR: Where did that name come from?
CH: I guess %u2018cause drinks, you used to call them dopes, I guess. I don%u2019t know. I think they used to call them dopes instead of drinks. [Laughter] DR: So, Don went with you on a route one time? What did he think?
CH: He liked the sandwiches. [Laughter] He enjoyed it, I think. It was a pretty good ride, you know, all that territory, and he enjoyed his self. Ever since then, Don got a job with some furniture store over here in Shelby, working and repairing furniture. Every once in a while, I%u2019d come back by there when I was coming home, and stop and chat with him, see him every once in a while there, working. One time I think he had a job--I don%u2019t know whether they have them now or not--they used to have %u201Cpiccolos,%u201D they called them. The things the records, they put them--what is it they called them things? Big jukeboxes or something. He worked for that company one time, changing the records on them in the places where they had them. He had a job like that one time in Shelby. Seems like it was, I%u2019m not sure whether it was J&K Record Shop that had that or not. Seems like it was--in Shelby--I don%u2019t guess they%u2019re in business now. But he worked for them one time, and they would take the records, take the old records off the piccolos and put them back on, or put new ones on, rather. He did that for a while. I don%u2019t know how long he done that.
DR: So you took him on a sandwich route, you played with him for a while--did you keep in touch after he left?
CH: We saw him one time when he came back visiting one time. We passed by his house where his parents lived, where his mother lived. His daddy, I believe, was dead before I ever met him, I reckon. I%u2019m not sure. But anyhow, we stopped and chatted with him a while. We went out there one time to visit him where he had the program on the Merry Go Round. We drove out there one time when the show was on. Of course, we went to Nashville to the Grand Ole Opry after he got out there one time. We heard during our visit there that he was going to be on a special show they was having--him and Little Jimmy Dickens had a scheduled program in the Grand Ole Opry building and we went to that. We tried to get around to speak to him but all the doors were locked. It wasn%u2019t like it was on a Saturday night when they had the Grand Ole Opry. Everything was locked up and the guys said they wasn%u2019t allowed to open the doors nowhere, so we didn%u2019t get to even speak to him. We was there and watched the show, but we didn%u2019t get to see him. Saw him, but we didn%u2019t get to speak to him.
DR: So you learned to play guitar from your neighbor when you were growing up?
CH: Yeah, it was mostly just learned the chords.
DR: The chords. Have you ever taught anyone yourself? Have you ever helped--?
CH: No.
DR: Just a personal pastime?
CH: [Laughter] DR: You don%u2019t play much anymore, you said?
CH: No, I don%u2019t play with anybody any more. I just%u2026
MH: %u2026Pick here by his self [laughter]%u2026
CH: %u2026just tinker, but I can%u2019t play good enough to play with anybody any more. I got too old and can%u2019t hit the strings too good. I wouldn%u2019t want to try it with anybody now.
DR: It%u2019s still set up though.
MH: Yeah, he still uses it.
DR: Still uses it?
CH: I don%u2019t play with anybody and don%u2019t go out nowhere with it because, well, that one, I never did go out in the public with that one. But the one I had with Don, I%u2019ll show it to you if you want me to show you.
DR: Sure, yeah. Should we walk to the other room?
CH: No, I%u2019ll go get it right here. [Leaves the room] MH: Here%u2019s a picture of Don in this book.
DR: Yeah, there he is. [Looking at picture] MH: Yeah. I don%u2019t know how old that book is. We got it from up there, I guess, when we (39:43). This is the other one.
DR: So what%u2019s that?
MH: This is somebody else, wasn%u2019t it? [Pause] Ernie Price, wasn%u2019t it Ernie or something?
DR: I%u2019m not sure. So how was it? Oh, there it is. [Looking at guitar] MH: Do you know who that is? [Referring to picture] CH: Ernie Ashworth.
MH: Yeah, I thought it was.
CH: The guy that taught me how to play the guitar is the one that owned it and got this one, and when he got to where he wasn%u2019t able to play I bought it from him. That%u2019s where I got hooked up with playing steel guitar. I had it--see, it just had six strings on it to start with, and I had Ray Ledford--are you familiar with Ray Ledford?--he remodeled it for me and put this extra part here and put eight strings on it. There was just six on it. That%u2019s the one that I used most of the time. They didn%u2019t even make pedal steels then. I%u2019ve just got that one--since I had my heart attack--I just got it to fool with. But there%u2019s a big difference in that one and this one.
DR: It%u2019s a beautiful guitar.
CH: Yeah, it had a better tone than that one%u2019s got on it. It has a good tone to it.
DR: Do have any favorite memories of playing it?
CH: Well, I guess I have if I could think of them. I used to go take this one a lot to different places. This is the only one I%u2019ve ever took out in public and played, I reckon. I%u2019ve never took that one out. But there%u2019s a big difference in playing; that one%u2019s harder to play than this because you%u2019ve got two necks and got five knee levers and twenty strings on it. There%u2019s a lot more to it than there was this one. That%u2019s the reason it takes so long to learn to play one of those, there%u2019s so much to do.
DR: So the simplicity of this one still has something for you?
CH: Um-hmm. Yeah, it%u2019s [pause]. The real pickups that come on it was under here. Ray put these two on for me. He put some new ones on it, but it sounded just as good as it did with the original pickups on it.
DR: If you want to sit back down again, you can.
MH: It needs dusting.
DR: It needs dusting?
CH: Well, I didn%u2019t know I was going to get it out. I was dusting it off. [Laughter] Yeah, we used to--I don%u2019t believe I told you about the show that we used to have when (42:58) took Don over. We had a little network program. It was called, at that time, the Liberty Network. We put the show on for about an hour on Saturday nights, and Don had the first thirty minutes, and then the Sisk Quartet and some more had the other thirty minutes. We started out in the studios at WOHS every Saturday night. Mt. Mitchell, WMIT, would pick it up and spread it out over the two Carolinas and Virginia. I think they had--I forget how many stations picked it up and took it. We put it on there at the studio, and then (43:48), being the manager of the Rogers, and the Carolina, Theater, he took us up to the stage on the Carolina Theater and we started putting it on there on Saturday nights between the movies. It wasn%u2019t long until he moved us to the Rogers Theater and we put it on down there for a while. That%u2019s another experience that I had.
DR: So every Saturday night, you played with Don and the band?
CH: Yeah. [Laughter] DR: What was it like, being broadcast?
CH: Well, it was kind of nerve-wracking, you know, or I was. I%u2019d get nervous right before we%u2019d come on, but after you get started playing it%u2019d wear off.
DR: What sort of music were you playing?
CH: This steel guitar here.
DR: The steel guitar.
CH: That one.
DR: Like, country stuff or--?
CH: Um-hmm. Now, that [pause] (45:01)--Jimmy Dickens was putting on a show at one of the theaters at that time, and we%u2019d tape the program, just messing around, taping at the studios at Shelby. He borrowed Jimmy Dickens%u2019 steel player%u2019s amplifier for me to use it. [Laughter] I used it and the strangest thing happened. The record, (45:37) gave me one of the copies one time.
DR: Of you playing?
CH: That was playing over there. Some friends of mine, we used to have a radio program at Forest City, and it wound down to just two of us playing. David Lipscomb played fiddle and played bass, and I played the rhythm guitar and the steel, so we got us two recorders and we made it like four playing. We did the program like that for a while. When we quit playing--we built our house here in 1957, I believe--put them up in that closet in there in a stack, the records that we had. We taped our program--or not tape them--we recorded them on a record at the studio up there at Forest City. We left them stuck together and forgot about them when we quit playing. One day when we was cleaning out something, we found them and they was stuck together. It just ruined them.
DR: So all of your old shows, the records got stuck together.
CH: I%u2019ve got one there where I was playing with Don, and I got two songs on there that we done over there one time--and a hymn that me and Don and Pee Wee, a trio that sung together over there. I%u2019ve got them on tape. I salvaged them, but it%u2019s so scratchy you can%u2019t hardly tell what it is. I%u2019ll let you hear it if you want to hear it.
DR: That would be great, yeah. I would definitely be interested in that.
CH: I done that trying to preserve what little I had left of them.
DR: When is this from then?
CH: Now, I taped playing my steel and I%u2019d record it and play it back and play the guitar with it, and I had a little rhythm box I played with it. [Playing tape] Let%u2019s see. I%u2019ll stop it. [Pause] I have to run it on down. [Pause] DR: So who all was playing on what we just heard.
CH: Huh?
DR: Who was just playing %u201CWildwood Flower%u201D there? That was you?
CH: Yeah, that was me. I played--you said it was the %u201CWildwood Flower.%u201D You%u2019re familiar with that.
DR: Yeah.
CH: I played it on the steel and then that old jukebox I%u2019ve got over there on the--well, that%u2019s it up there on the--in there that I played the rhythm, and then I got my Martin guitar and I played with it, recorded over again. But it%u2019s not the quality that I%u2019d liked to have had, but that%u2019s about as good as I can get it. Just on a home recorder, you can%u2019t get no good recording much.
DR: I think it sounds pretty nice.
CH: [Laughter] But these records, if I can find that now. It%u2019s on towards the--. [Playing tape] I%u2019ll run that on through. [Playing tape] That%u2019s David Lipscomb. His picture%u2019s on there. That David Lipscomb on that fiddle--that%u2019s him playing the fiddle. That%u2019s just me and him. That was on our program up there, one of them. He was playing the breakdown, and I was just with the guitar and him with the fiddle on that. I salvaged that.
DR: When is that recording from?
CH: That was just me and David Lipscomb ourselves.
DR: How long ago?
CH: David died about--how long has David been dead?
MH: Several years.
CH: He%u2019s been dead several years now. That%u2019s been a long time since we taped that. I got that off them old records, you know. That one was pretty clear and I got it.
DR: So the record is from, like, the forties?
CH: And there he is on this. I%u2019ve got these two teams that%u2019s--. If you%u2019ll notice, that%u2019s before we dubbed it up at the station at Forest City. If you%u2019ll notice, you%u2019ll hear the steel and bass fiddle in there. We played the guitar and the fiddle here at home and took it up there and played the recorder and played the steel and the bass fiddle with it, and that%u2019s where that come from. You can hear the steel and bass fiddle on that. [Taped music continues to play] DR: That%u2019s quite a production.
CH: [Laughter] DR: What did people at the station think of that?
CH: We had a lot of fun with that.
DR: How long did you play at the station for?
CH: Gosh, we played up there three or four years, I guess, off and on, I guess.
DR: That was after Don?
CH: Oh, yeah. Don, he had already gone. I don%u2019t know, he might have still been here when we done part of that, I don%u2019t know. [Laughter as taped music ends] DR: Thanks for sharing that. I appreciate it.
CH: Let%u2019s see here now. [Begins playing more taped music] That%u2019s some hymns that I had done on there. [Taped music plays through 56:43] DR: Mind if I just ask you a couple more questions?
CH: Yeah, go ahead.
DR: What about the lap steel do you like? Why play slide guitar instead of anything else? What is it that you love about it?
CH: Oh, you mean this one and this one?
DR: Yeah, what do you love about the music?
CH: I%u2019ve always liked Hawaiian music. I learned that from Rob Green that started me out playing guitar behind him. Of course, that%u2019s the one that he used, and it had a good sound to it. The pedal steel, there%u2019s so much you can get on them that you can%u2019t pick out on that because you%u2019ve got your pedals and your knee levers and everything. You can get notes and things on that--whoever figured that out, I don%u2019t know. I don%u2019t understand how they ever done it, but they was pretty smart to figure all that stuff out. Have you ever been around a steel guitar much?
DR: A little bit.
CH: If you can see underneath there, you can kind of see what--.
DR: [Looking at steel guitar] Um-hmm.
CH: I need to rebuild this one. It just to where it wants to mess up and not tune like it ought to. I believe I could put the works in it if I could get them, but that%u2019s a Sho-Bud steel. They went out of business the year that I bought this one. I%u2019ve ordered some parts for it one time from Scotty%u2019s Music in St. Louis. It%u2019s the only place I could find the parts for it. I%u2019m going to have to try to find--each one of these things needs replacing under here because it%u2019s giving me so much trouble about staying in tune. I think I could do it myself. There ain%u2019t nobody around here that works on steel guitars as I know of. I think there%u2019s some places in Georgia that they--Dan Padgett took his down there and had some work done on it.
DR: Do you have any favorite songs that you like to play?
CH: Well, I don%u2019t know, just as long as they%u2019re good songs, good rhythm, I like them pretty good. I%u2019ve got to find this where I played with Don here if I can.
DR: Yeah.
CH: Yeah, I want you to hear that if I can find it. [Pause while rewinding tape] Those songs that%u2019s so bad is on the other side of that tape. This is on the--let%u2019s see where I%u2019m at now. [Plays brief part of taped song] I believe it%u2019s on the back side of it where that song is, I believe.
DR: I can let everyone back at Destination Cleveland County know that you%u2019ve got this recording, and maybe we%u2019ll send someone out later. They%u2019ll give you a call later, and come out and make a copy of it if you%u2019d be okay with that.
CH: I don%u2019t see that they%u2019d want it, would they?
DR: They might.
CH: [Laughter] DR: So I%u2019ll let them know that you have it, that it%u2019s you and Don from way back.
CH: I think this is getting close now, maybe.
DR: Oh, okay. [Taped music continues to play] CH: When this starts, try to blot out the scratches and noise, and just listen to what%u2019s going on. I haven%u2019t found it yet, but I%u2019m getting close. [Begins to play another taped song] That%u2019s me there; that ain%u2019t Don there. Here we go. [Begins to play a taped song with Don Gibson singing] That%u2019s that old steel you hear now. [Tape continues to play] Now here%u2019s where I took the old steel. [Tape plays until 1:06:05] That%u2019s something, isn%u2019t it?
DR: That%u2019s wild. So that%u2019s you%u2026
CH: %u2026That%u2019s a scratchy one, ain%u2019t it?
DR: So that%u2019s you and Don and Hal Peeler, you said?
CH: Um-hmm.
DR: Anyone else?
CH: Four of us, wasn%u2019t it?
MH: David?
CH: No, David wasn%u2019t playing on that.
MH: Okay.
CH: That was me, Don, and Hal Peeler, and [pause] Hubert Pearson.
DR: Hubert Pearson?
CH: Yeah, I think that%u2019s the four that done that one.
DR: So that was one of your, from like, a studio?
CH: Yeah, we did that over at Shelby.
DR: One of the radio shows?
CH: WOHS.
DR: Okay, so one of the Saturday night radio shows.
CH: No, we didn%u2019t do that on a Saturday night, not that one. That was just fiddling around, practicing, I reckon, when we done this.
DR: So do you remember recording this?
CH: I don%u2019t know. That would have been a good one for Don to have recorded if he had recorded that one. That was a good tune. Have you ever heard that before?
DR: No, no.
CH: I never have heard it by nobody but him. I don%u2019t know whether he wrote that one or where he got it at, but it was a good song. It had a good beat to it.
DR: So do you have any--I don%u2019t want to take too much of your time or anything like that, but do you have any other memories or thoughts about music in Cleveland County, or working on your sandwich route, or at the bakery or the cotton mill or anything like that?
CH: Not as I know of.
DR: Like anything I haven%u2019t asked about or anything that you thought that you wanted to tell me bit didn%u2019t get the chance to?
CH: I haven%u2019t thought of anything. Usually, on our jobs we had like that, we didn%u2019t have much time for the music. Most people that you was around when you was on a job wasn%u2019t too interested in music no way, you know? It%u2019s just certain people that enjoyed it. As far as I can think right now, I don%u2019t know of anything. We did have a lot of people that listened at us on the radio at the time, and enjoyed it, but that%u2019s about it, I guess. My singing--I was terrible, but we didn%u2019t have nobody else to sing--me and David, we done the best we could, but we had a lot of fun doing it. Let%u2019s see now if I can find--I want you to hear this other two songs that Don did. Have you ever heard the song %u201CBlue Bonnet Waltz%u201D?
DR: I don%u2019t know if I can place it right off the top of my head.
CH: I do remember one thing that might be of interest. The Cleveland County Fair, me and Don went over one time; there wasn%u2019t none of the boys playing with us, just me and him. We just took the steel and the guitar and put on one of the programs at the county fair. We played over there one time. Of course, it wasn%u2019t recorded or anything.
DR: You played for the fire station?
CH: No, I guess it was just--I don%u2019t know why we was over there. I don%u2019t remember, but we went over there and put the program on, just me and him. [Laughter] DR: What did everyone think?
CH: The other guys had to work. They was on a job. But I just remember one time that we went over there and put it on at the county fair one time. Another time we put it on--Johnny Brewer--you remember Brewer%u2019s Shoe Store?--he was our sponsor one time. It was down there at the station this time, and Ronnie, our son, was about five or six, seven years old at that time, and we put on a program down there. He%u2019ll probably get me for telling this, but he sung %u201CCareless Hands%u201D. Johnny Brewer had to hold him up to the mike and Don played the guitar for him. [Laughter] I thought that was funny. She (wife, Madge) was at home listening and crying when he was singing. [Laughter] DR: So you%u2019ve got one son. Do you have any other kids?
CH: No, that%u2019s the only one. He don%u2019t play music. He likes music, but he don%u2019t play.
DR: He%u2019s a singer, apparently.
CH: He played a harp a while. He done pretty good on it, but he got discouraged and quit that. He%u2019s retired now. He%u2019s done retired. Have you ever heard of Siemens Industries? He was working for them and retired. He used to have to go over to Germany. You know, that%u2019s where their headquarters were. He started out up there at Johnson City with Texas Instruments, and they sold out to Siemens. They kept him on his job and he retired from them about a year-and-a-half ago, I guess, or two years, somewhere like that.
MH: It%u2019s been a good while.
CH: He%u2019ll kill me for telling this on him, I guess. [Laughter] I thought that was funny. Let%u2019s see if I can find these other songs. [Begins playing taped music] There, that was the %u201CBlue Bonnet Waltz.%u201D
DR: Uh-huh. This is you and Don again?
CH: You can tell that%u2019s him. [Music continues to play until 1:14:08] That was just the two of us that done that one.
DR: Thank you so much for taking some time out of your afternoon for me.
CH: That%u2019s fine.
DR: I really appreciate it.
CH: I thought maybe you might be interested in the--Don--things that I%u2019ve got from him here. If I can find this other one here, it%u2019s right close to this, I think. [Begins to switch taped music on and off, looking for songs] MH: Do you live here? Oh, I already asked you that. Where do you live?
CH: Chapel Hill? The big city, huh?
DR: The big city.
CH: I%u2019ve got to tell this on you. You hear that coughing in there? [Plays taped music] One night when David was playing a program here, and taping it, she was in the kitchen, and all at once she started coughing and we still got that on there. [Laughter] [Plays more taped music] DR: A little cough there. [Laughter] That%u2019s funny.
CH: I wanted you to hear that too.
DR: Well, thanks for that. I need to take some pictures of you guys if that%u2019s okay. Is that all right by you?
CH: How about just one?
DR: [Laughter] MH: That%u2019s okay. If you think you won%u2019t break your camera. [Laughter] DR: No. So if there%u2019s anything else you want to talk about, let me know, but if not, I might run out to my car real quick and grab my camera.
CH: Okay, while you%u2019re doing that, maybe I%u2019ll find this.
DR: Okay. Well, thank you so much for talking. I%u2019m going to stop the recording now. All right? Great, thank you.

END OF INTERVIEW
Mike Hamrick, September 23rd, 2010