CORINE CABANISS

TRANSCRIPT %u2013 CORINE CABANISS
[Compiled October 6th, 2010]

Interviewee: CORINE CABANISS

Interviewer: Dwana Waugh

Interview Date: August 7th, 2010

Location: Shelby, North Carolina

Length: Approximately 64 minutes

DWANA WAUGH: Today is August 7th, 2010. This is Dwana Waugh at Mrs. Corine Cabaniss%u2019 house in Shelby, North Carolina. I am interviewing Mrs. Corine Cabaniss, and can you say when you were born and where you were born?
CORINE CABANISS: I was born May the 6th, 1916 in Boiling Springs, North Carolina.
DW: Could you just talk a little bit about your family when you were growing up?
CC: When I was a very small girl, my parents passed away when I was around seven years old. My mother died first, and then about a year after Mother died, my father died. There were four of us children left. There were six in all, but there were only four left because I had two sisters that passed away. My grandmother, Shirley McAfee and her husband, Chester, they raised us from that time on. So we still grew up in Boiling Springs on a farm. And at eighteen, when I was eighteen years old, of course I married. I married (1:23) Roberts at that time, but he%u2019s passed away. Then I married again, to Paul Cabaniss.
DW: Okay. And could you talk just a little bit about what it was like growing up on a farm? [Laughter] What was life like, a typical day?
CC: Well, life was kind of rough. My grandfather and grandmother owned a one-horse farm. Of course, we raised our hogs, our chickens and so forth, everything on the farm. It was pretty rough. Of course, we picked cotton. I was a three hundred, four hundred-pound picker, cotton picker. [Laughter] We took care of our farm, and also we had to take care of other people%u2019s farms too, because as small as our farm was, we could take care of everybody else%u2019s too, pick cotton for everybody. Then when we would go to school, we only had a six--when we went to school, then we only had six months%u2019 school. We%u2019d have to stay out of school in order to take care of the farms (2:38) for the other people. My grandmother took in washings all the time.
DW: So washing and farming?
CC: Yeah, washing and--. And the school--as I say, we went to school. The first school building we went to, we just had one stove to heat. They called it a pot-bellied stove. We didn%u2019t have coal at that time; we had wood. The boys would have to cut wood to keep the fire burning for us or it would be cold. Then that was a punishment too. Then we had to carry our lunch to school. Of course, what we carried was molasses and cold butter to lunch. They didn%u2019t have any lunch in school at that time. We walked about two miles to school every day and back. Let%u2019s see what else. I married when I was eighteen, and of course they had built a Rosenwald school at that time. I guess you%u2019ve heard of those Rosenwald schools. They were trying to add grades to them. At first, it only went to the sixth grade, and then they started adding one grade per year, like the seventh grade, and the eighth grade, and on like that. I think I started in the eighth grade when I got married. When we finished our seventh grade, we would have to come to Shelby to the Cleveland High School here in Shelby to give a speech. If we were eligible to give speeches, that%u2019s where we graduated from was Shelby High. Not Shelby High, Cleveland High, that was the black school.
DW: To give a speech when you--?
CC: We%u2019d have to give speeches; that was our graduation. We had our graduation over in Shelby. We didn%u2019t have any high schools around in Boiling Springs, if you can understand what I%u2019m saying.
DW: Yeah, I think. So when you finished eighth grade you would go to Cleveland?
CC: Seventh.
DW: You would go to Cleveland School.
CC: We come to Cleveland to graduate.
DW: To graduate, and then each student gave a speech?
CC: No, you%u2019d have to learn a speech, and if you were eligible, if your grades were well enough to get to give a speech.
DW: Okay. Did I hear you say your lunch was molasses and cold butter?
CC: Well, it was cold when we got to school. [Laughter] It was cold! You%u2019d have to bite into it. But that%u2019s the only lunch we had. That%u2019s the only lunch that we had; we had to carry it from home. Okay, bread, that%u2019s what it is, yeah.
DW: You said you picked three hundred to four hundred pounds of cotton? How young were you when you first started?
CC: Oh, picking cotton?
DW: Yes, ma%u2019am.
CC: When I was about four years old, my father was living at that time, and he would carry us to the field and make us pick cotton at that time--four years old. And then, of course, when he passed away, we went to our grandparents. I had one sister older than me. My others were under, and one brother, and they were all younger than me.
DW: Wow.
CC: And I have one sister living now. She%u2019s in California, but she%u2019s in a nursing home. She is ninety-one years old.
DW: When you were younger, do you remember having any dreams of what you wanted to be when you got older?
CC: I always said I wanted to work in a store where you could get clothes, and the Lord just gave me that. He did. I think of that quite often. I always said to myself, I want to work in a store where I can have clothes. Somehow or another, it ran that--well, the way it run, the way it happened--let%u2019s see, are we leaving the farm now? [Laughter] DW: We can get off the farm. [Laughter] CC: Well, we can get back to the farm. When I first married we had a farm. My husband and I, Royster Roberts, we had a farm. When we got married, we lived in a one-room house. One room, kitchen on this end and the bed on that end, outdoor toilets.
DW: Okay.
CC: I tell you, I came up poor. I mean, just a little one-room house, and we didn%u2019t have much to eat. We ate Irish potatoes every day for lunch, [laughter] until we could get away from that farm. We lived up near Cliffside then. We stayed on the farm about four years after I married.
DW: Now you say you got married at the end of seventh grade?
CC: Yeah, I quit school. I got married after school.
DW: Okay. Did you live close to your grandparents?
CC: No, we lived up near Cliffside. Well, it was about three miles or four away from my grandparents, but the only way we could get there, we had to walk. We didn%u2019t have any cars or anything. I think the first car we had, my grandfather bought a Ford, 1924 or something like that, a Ford. I%u2019m jumping back and forth, right?
DW: No.
CC: We kept the Ford, but after Royster and I married, we didn%u2019t have a car. We had to walk everywhere. Then, we decided we wanted to start working out to make some money, so he started working for O.E. Ford here in Shelby, a lumber company. I started working for Cohen%u2019s; that was 1938. I think I was about twenty-two years old.
DW: Were these typical jobs that blacks could have at the time?
CC: Were they what now?
DW: Were these typical jobs, to work for a clothing company or for a lumber company at the time in the late thirties?
CC: Were they typical?
DW: Typical jobs for blacks?
CC: Well, now, I wasn%u2019t working in the store then, no.
DW: Oh, oh.
CC: But now, that was a job he could work at because it was a lumber company.
DW: Oh, okay.
CC: No, it was a long time, yeah.
DW: Oh, okay, I see.
CC: No, we%u2019ll have to get back to that too, I guess, but I started working for Cohen%u2019s--we were making three-dollars-and-a-half per week--one week, seven days, and the other week, six days. We had to stay on the--they called it %u201Cstaying on the lot,%u201D because you had a child, and I was to take care of the baby. We had to sleep there, the weekend, on to the weekend.
DW: Was that considered good pay, for $3.50 a week? [Laughter] CC: Well, at that time I thought everybody was getting--it was 1938--that was all they were getting, three-dollars-and-a-half per week. And of course, we had as much money then as I have now, I guess. There was two girls working there. Of course, one girl was the cook, and I had to take care of the baby and take care of the house. So I worked there a good while, and then I got a raise to five dollars. I thought I was really making some money. But I worked for them for--I worked at the home for twenty years, and then they moved to Charlotte and he gave me a job at the store. That was right around the early sixties. At the store at that time, integration wasn%u2019t in. You know, you had your black water and your white water, so I was there as a receiving clerk downstairs at the store the first month there. Then after they moved to Charlotte and he moved me upstairs and I was made a clerk at the store.
DW: Okay. If I could go back just a little bit, so when you were working for them, how did you come to get the job to work for them?
CC: They had an ad in the paper, and I had a friend that we all lived close together on the farm, so we said we were going to decide we%u2019re going to go to get--somehow or other, I don%u2019t know how we got to town, but we did come to town and they hired us at that time.
DW: Okay.
CC: I got hired right away.
DW: Okay.
CC: After I left the farm we got hired.
DW: And she became the cook?
CC: Years after that. No, no, the other girl didn%u2019t get a job with me. That was just we both came to hunt a job. [Laughter] See, they were Orthodox Jews, so they cooked differently. Everything was different.
DW: That was pretty unusual. There doesn%u2019t seem to be a lot of Jewish families in%u2026
CC: %u2026There%u2019s none in Shelby now. There used to be about three, three families, something like that, Rosenwald%u2019s Jewelry Store and the Cohen%u2019s store.
DW: What store did the Cohen family own?
CC: It%u2019s uptown. It%u2019s a store up there now. I think the bank owns a lot of that. I think the bank owns most of that, First National Bank, I think. I think they own that store. There%u2019s not a store in there anyway.
DW: Oh, okay. Was it named after the Cohens?
CC: It was Cohen%u2019s store.
DW: Okay. And they sold clothes?
CC: Clothing.
DW: So what was a typical day like, working for the family? You had mentioned you worked seven days one week and then six days the next week?
CC: Yeah, well, you had a half a day off, and then, see, I%u2019d have to work every other Sunday. That%u2019s what it was, every other Sunday.
DW: [Laughter] CC: [Laughter] DW: Was that common? If you did this kind of work, was that common that you would work that kind of a schedule, or was this a little more extreme, in terms of how long you had to work?
CC: What do you mean, the hours that you put in per day?
DW: Yes, ma%u2019am.
CC: You put in ten to twelve hours per day, because in the evening they were going to go to the movies or wherever they went. I had to stay there and take care of their baby, so it was ten or sometimes twelve hours a day. Then of course, they had the Passover, and they had that there and we would work to two or three o%u2019clock in the mornings, all night. But that%u2019s just once a year, you know.
DW: Did you like working and doing that kind of work?
CC: I liked the work because I had to have--I%u2019m going to tell you--that was a school for me. I learned so much, and I tell them now, today--there%u2019s no one living but Anita, the baby girl, that%u2019s the one I raised. But it was like a school; they taught me so much. They really taught me so much. They taught me how to talk. Of course, I%u2019ve gone back off my talk now, but it was schooling. They taught me how to set tables. You see, I just came from a farm; I wasn%u2019t knowing about anything. They taught me how to dress and everything. I mean, it was really a school, it really was. After I was there about two years I had an appendix problem, so I told the doctor, %u201CWell, let me go on to the hospital and have my appendix removed,%u201D so I did. So that way, it made me stronger. Otherwise, I was afraid it might burst on me. I traveled with them quite a bit, to New York, to Florida, all up and down the coast, I traveled with them--with the baby. Now, in traveling--I don%u2019t know whether this is interesting or not--it was just a strange thing; it was before integration. We would go to New York for Passover, and we%u2019d stop at a service station, you know, like a restroom. Or they would come out--now this was going north--they would come out and say, %u201CWe%u2019ve got a restroom for the baby, but we don%u2019t have one for you.%u201D I mean, they%u2019d tell you that right to your face. And then, when we%u2019d travel to Florida, we%u2019d stop at one and they%u2019d have a sign in there: %u201CNo Jews and Dogs Allowed.%u201D So we were traveling one time on the train, and the baby--I sat with the family and with the baby--some lady sitting back behind us, she didn%u2019t like it. She went and told the conductor, so I had to get up from there and move to the back. You know, the trains had a black section, and I had to get up--made me get up and move to the back.
DW: And leave the baby there?
CC: Yeah. At least I didn%u2019t have to take care of the baby. Ooh, I tell you, it hasn%u2019t been easy. [Laughter] When I was working at the store, of course they%u2019re gone from the store now, but people would come in there and I%u2019d say, %u201CCan I help you?%u201D %u201CNo, you can%u2019t help me! Who ever heard of such a thing?%u201D But you know, you have to smile and laugh; you get places like that. Then they moved to Florida and they moved to Charlotte, and then after moving to Charlotte, Mr. Cohen got very sick. Now this is just telling his story, and he passed away in Florida. I didn%u2019t move with them to Charlotte though. I would go back and forth to help them clean up, but I didn%u2019t move with them, and that%u2019s when he gave me the job at the store.
DW: Oh, okay, right before when he was sick.
CC: Yeah.
DW: Now did they just have the one daughter?
CC: No, they had three children. They had two daughters and a son. The son died about three years ago. The older daughter has been dead a good while. So they have the baby girl--she%u2019s in Charlotte now, Anita. She calls me and checks on me all the time.
DW: Oh, that%u2019s nice. So they obviously really liked having you there.
CC: Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, you had to be. Well, %u201Con the lot%u201D was a trend at that time for all the whites. The maids had to stay on the lot. They called it on the lot because they had houses built out there for them to be on the lot. They had to stay on the lot.
DW: Oh, so you had--?
CC: We had a place where, I mean if I could, I could drive you out to pass right by the house.
DW: And so was that for all--was the house for everybody, every maid to live there?
CC: For the two of us that worked there.
DW: Oh, for each home.
CC: Yeah. They had a house on the outside.
DW: Yeah, I was going to ask you, what was that like being married and being with that family so long.
CC: Oh, that was my downfall. My first husband and I, we separated because it was not good.
DW: Yeah, I can%u2019t imagine being away.
CC: It was not good at all. But he passed away. I mean, I was married when he passed away and he was married too. He married the second time and so did I, but he%u2019s dead now too, but it wasn%u2019t good. I would tell anybody, don%u2019t stay away no week at a time, sometimes more than a week. And when we would travel, you see, I%u2019d be gone nearly two weeks because they%u2019d stay in New York two weeks, or if they go to Florida, they want you to go with them and stay two weeks. So it was not good, not at all.
DW: Yeah. So did you have any involvement with their store and helping to clean up at the store, or was it just solely in their house?
CC: No, no. I never had to clean. I was their shipping and receiving clerk. Another lady was down there. After then, I came upstairs and worked on the floor, so I didn%u2019t have to do any cleaning. Then, after he died, I was over the children%u2019s department, but the store closed. It didn%u2019t last long after Mr. Cohen died. It didn%u2019t last long. So everybody tells me I close all the stores, because that store closed in %u201972, 1972. Then I got a job at King%u2019s store. I worked at the store thirteen years; I worked at the house twenty years. I worked at the store thirteen years [pause] and then I worked at the house twenty years. So I went to work at King%u2019s. I worked at King%u2019s store for eleven years--it closed. [Laughter] DW: [Laughter] CC: I worked at Rose%u2019s ten years and they closed. [Laughter] All three of the stores closed. [Laughter] DW: Seeing a pattern come out. [Laughter] CC: So I said I%u2019d better leave Goodwill before they close. [Laughter] DW: [Laughter] CC: So I retired from Goodwill two years ago.
DW: So when the Cohen family moved to Charlotte and they left the store, and you started as a receiving clerk--let me back up a little bit--what did the Cohen%u2019s store look like inside? Was it in downtown Shelby?
CC: Yeah. It had the ladies%u2019 side, like, one side for the ladies and one side for the children and one side for the men, and then they had a shoe department.
DW: Okay.
CC: They had the upstairs--they had the upstairs store for the men%u2019s work clothes and things of that sort. Then they had women%u2019s alteration--they had an alteration place upstairs too, and they had a storage place upstairs. It was a pretty nice store, big store.
DW: Were blacks allowed to go to the store, shop at the store before, when it was still segregated?
CC: Oh, yeah, they could go shop, but they had little ol%u2019 cubbyholes. They had those cubbyholes. I didn%u2019t like that. I was there and there wasn%u2019t nothing I could do about it, but after integration came, they cut that cubbyhole out and they took out those black water tanks and those white water tanks. They were all in the store too. I mean, because that was the way it was, so, couldn%u2019t do about it. But he took it out.
DW: Now, the cubbyhole, was it just downstairs?
CC: No, it was there with the clothing. They had a place for the white ladies and a place for the black ladies.
DW: Okay.
CC: And they had it the same way with the restrooms: one for the whites and one for the blacks.
DW: So if you were a black woman, and a white woman was in the store, you could try on the same clothes, same--?
CC: Yeah, you could try on the same clothes. You didn%u2019t have to separate--.
DW: But you would try them on in different places?
CC: Yeah, you%u2019d have to go in the little hole to try on in different places, yeah. Oh, and (24:02) worked there. (24:04) when he was going to Shelby High. He went to Shelby High. He was working there for a while.
DW: So blacks were allowed to go anywhere in the store, upstairs, downstairs?
CC: Oh, yeah. It wasn%u2019t closed off. They was welcomed there as far as that part is concerned. And another thing: Mr. Cohen made sure that they treated the blacks right. I was going to get some pictures for (24:33). [Looking for pictures] He really wanted them to do something like that. I want to show you this in a minute.
DW: Okay.
CC: No, I%u2019m going to show it to you if you just go on and ask the question.
DW: Okay.
CC: I%u2019ll show it to him in a little bit.
DW: Yeah, I was curious to find out how you perceived how the Cohens were treated by blacks and by whites.
CC: Well, the whites didn%u2019t care for them, you know. They always come in, they would raise Cain and, %u201CLet%u2019s jew %u2018em down,%u201D and this, that, and the other, they didn%u2019t care. But Mr. Cohen did more for those people here, white people and black, than anybody. He bought a whole volume of books for the Jewish and gave it to Gardner-Webb College. He did a lot, but they didn%u2019t appreciate it after he did it. %u201CWe sure miss Cohen%u2019s,%u201D but he treated them all alike. Then somebody would come in and curse him out, and then before they left, he%u2019d have them (25:32) selling them a suit. [Laughter] DW: That%u2019s the way to do it. [Laughter] CC: So after then, getting back to then, I got a lot of awards. You know, I got some awards. Do you want that?
DW: Yes, ma%u2019am.
CC: Let%u2019s see.
DW: Now this was after you had been working there for a while?
CC: I didn%u2019t get awards from them. Well, I got awards, but I got awards for the work that I did in the community.
DW: Oh, okay.
CC: I got a whole lot of them.
DW: Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, let me ask you this before we go into the--I do want to talk about your awards--so, when you became a receiving clerk, what kind of duties did you have as a receiving clerk at Cohen%u2019s store?
CC: Merchandise would come in the back and we%u2019d have to accept it and sign for it. Then we%u2019d take it downstairs and we%u2019d start working on it, putting price tags on it and bring it upstairs.
DW: Okay. And how many receiving clerks?
CC: There was just two of us. There was a white lady and she was very nice. She taught me and we worked together. Then we had one boy there to do the hard work, the things of that sort, a black boy.
DW: To do the lifting and things like that.
CC: Yeah, he did, yeah.
DW: Okay. I%u2019ve heard so many different stories. I guess when stores were still segregated--. Let me scratch that.
CC: No, you ask me any question. If I can answer it I will.
DW: Okay. Did you deal with many of the other stores in the area, in the downtown area around Cohen%u2019s?
CC: Did I work at any of them?
DW: Well, shopping.
CC: Oh, yeah. There was a Hudson%u2019s there, and then there was A.V. Wray%u2019s right next to it. We had some nice stores, and Belk%u2019s and Penney%u2019s. They were all uptown at that time. Yeah, we shopped at any of the stores.
DW: And were blacks treated any differently in one of the stores over the other?
CC: Not that I know of. Eventually, Hudson%u2019s hired a black clerk. Eventually.
DW: But this was long after you%u2019d been working at Cohen%u2019s?
CC: Yeah, a year or so. Well, after, especially after integration came, they hired them a little later. The lady was working there anyway because she was cleaning and things of that sort. She was working there anyway so they hired her. [Interruption] So they were very nice.
DW: Now this was in a different--this was in Charlotte, but I had interviewed a woman before who was one of the first black saleswomen in a store. She was talking about there being some tension sometimes between the maids in the store and being a salesperson.
CC: Oh, that, I didn%u2019t pay it no attention. If they didn%u2019t want me to (28:41) I just went on about my business. You know, they%u2019d snap: %u201CNo, I don%u2019t want you to wait on me,%u201D just like that, but I just went on about my business. It didn%u2019t bother me.
DW: Yeah, just not wait on them at all.
CC: That%u2019s right. In fact, if they didn%u2019t want me, I didn%u2019t want to either. [Laughter] I always just smiled and go right on and get better that way. No need to start no argument. In fact, the clerks that worked there, they were worse than the people that wanted you to wait on them. They didn%u2019t want me working. They didn%u2019t. Ooh, they was mad! But Mr. Cohen, working with a Jew, I tell you, if he likes you, he likes you. Some of the salesmen would come in to sell things, and this is my (29:26), this is my--. And oh, he%u2019d get so mad. Now, one thing I would get onto him about, if they said it: if I heard the word %u201Cnigger,%u201D I%u2019d jump right on them. I bawled out one of those white clerks over there one day. It%u2019s something I ain%u2019t never said in my life: I said, %u201CKiss my ass and lick it until it turns red!%u201D
DW: [Laughter] CC: I don%u2019t know where that came from. I don%u2019t know where that came from. [Laughter] DW: [Laughter] I%u2019m sorry. [Laughter] CC: [Laughter] DW: Well, I guess that--they knew--.
CC: Here come Mr. (30:15), %u201CWhat%u2019s the matter?%u201D I said, %u201CI%u2019m just going to teach these people how to say a word.%u201D [Laughter] DW: I guess they straightened up after that.
CC: Yeah, they did, they did. Boy, if they wanted to say anything, they kept their mouth shut until they got somewhere I wouldn%u2019t hear them. I did that in every store that I went, and when I hear that word, I%u2019d go to the boss. I%u2019d say, %u201CYou can throw me out of the store or you can keep me here,%u201D but I said, %u201Cnigger is my fighting word.%u201D I said that at King%u2019s and I told them at Rose%u2019s. They said, %u201CWe don%u2019t blame you. We don%u2019t want to blame you.%u201D [Laughter] DW: [Laughter] CC: I don%u2019t know where that came from. [Laughter] DW: Well! [Laughter] CC: %u201CWell, I ain%u2019t! That%u2019s all she can say: I ain%u2019t!%u201D [Laughter] DW: [Laughter] I%u2019m sorry. Oh, I%u2019ll pull myself together here. [Laughter] So you had moved from being a receiving clerk, and then%u2026
CC: %u2026Up to a clerk%u2026
DW: %u2026eventually got a clerk position.
CC: Sales person or whatever you want to write.
DW: Now your pay, I assume, had increased?
CC: You know, I%u2019ve been trying to think what I got. I don%u2019t know what they paid us at that time, but it was cheap. [Laughter] Nobody made any money at that time. In the early sixties, it wasn%u2019t--. But I don%u2019t have the least idea of what I was getting. I%u2019ve been trying to think and think. I don%u2019t know whether it was six or seven dollars a week or what it was. I can%u2019t think. Because I know when the last time I worked at the house, it was five dollars a week, so it must have been six or seven dollars a week or something, or so much an hour, I don%u2019t know. You%u2019d get paid by the hour at the store.
DW: Yeah. Do you remember if you got paid more as a clerk than as a receiving clerk?
CC: No, it was the same thing.
DW: You had said the store ended up closing, so when after he died--?
CC: Well, his son took it over, and you know these young people. Well, he wanted to set up a different type of selling. You had a big board and you had to put everything on it and all like that. They didn%u2019t like it, you know. And then he put me over the children%u2019s department, the head of the children%u2019s department.
DW: Could you talk just a little bit about the way sales were done before the son took over? Was each person in charge of each department, or you were in charge of any department?
CC: Yeah, they still had the same departments, but it just was down. And then he couldn%u2019t get any merchandise. I don%u2019t know whether Mr. Cohen owed these companies a lot or what. He couldn%u2019t get the merchandise. In fact, he took me with him to help to pick out merchandise for the children in Charlotte, but it never came. He couldn%u2019t get it, so undoubtedly, Mr. Cohen must have owed a lot or something, I don%u2019t know, so the store finally closed.
DW: Oh. And you were saying that they had a different kind of selling technique. How was it different than before? You had mentioned something about a board?
CC: Yeah, it was set up like the stores are nowadays. When Mr. Cohen used to sell things he had an office upstairs, and the ladies upstairs took care of everything. But he had a big board where you put down everything, and it was complicated to me. Then you had to go to each item in the store and put it on the board via numbers and everything, so it was different.
DW: Yeah, a lot more detail.
CC: Yeah, sales went down, so it closed. He couldn%u2019t get the merchandise.
DW: Okay. And so then, before the store closed, had you lined up the job with King%u2019s, or--?
CC: No, I left Cohen%u2019s store and where did I go to? I went to a mill. They were hiring in Kings Mountain, and I stayed there about eight months. They were making undershirts, I think men%u2019s undershirts. You had to do so much--what do they call it? You had to do so much per day, and two of us had to work together. We were stretching, one on that end and one on this end. When the end of the day come, I was worn out. I didn%u2019t stay there long. After I left there, I got a job at Sears in Gastonia. I stayed there about eight months, and then I got a job at King%u2019s and I stayed there ten years.
DW: So this was in the early seventies by this point, by the time you went to--.
CC: Yeah, between %u201970 and %u201980. It was after, I guess, about %u201975 or somewhere along there, after Cohen%u2019s store closed.
DW: When you went to the mill, was that--let me ask the question this way--how had job opportunities changed for blacks?
CC: Well, I think everybody could work there, because there was a lot of them there. I think they called it the Oxford Mill or something in Kings Mountain. I don%u2019t think it%u2019s there now.
DW: Was it more blacks that you worked with there, making the undershirts?
CC: Yeah, there was quite a few. Blacks and whites, they were kind of mixed up. There was integration anyway at that time, so there were several blacks there.
DW: I want to ask you about benefits. Were there any health benefits or things of that nature?
CC: No, not at these places. Now, Rose%u2019s--King%u2019s and Rose%u2019s--but Cohen%u2019s and the mill didn%u2019t have them. Our mills could have had it, you know, but I wasn%u2019t there long enough to get them. I%u2019m not a mill person. But King%u2019s had it and Rose%u2019s had it.
DW: When you said you had your appendix out, working with the Cohen%u2019s, if you got sick or anything, did they cover your time off?
CC: No, you didn%u2019t have--huh-uh.
DW: So you just had to work while you were sick?
CC: Yeah, but if I had, I might have been worse off, so I had to take off because I had to stay out about six weeks. At that time, they didn%u2019t pay you when you was off. [Laughter] DW: That%u2019s tough living. [Laughter] Yeah. So how did you come to hear about the job at King%u2019s store?
CC: I think it was an ad in the paper at King%u2019s store.
DW: And you said they had the benefits where you could--some health benefits and things?
CC: Yeah, they had benefits there.
DW: What kind of work did you end up doing there?
CC: I was working in the men%u2019s department.
DW: By this point, did you have a preference over any of the jobs that you had?
CC: Well, the girl, the white girl and I, we took care of the men%u2019s department, so when she quit, I got the job of taking care of it. I was over the men%u2019s department.
DW: Okay.
CC: I was the boss. [Laughter] DW: So this was the best job of all the jobs?
CC: Yeah, I enjoyed that, but it didn%u2019t last long. I don%u2019t know the heads of the King%u2019s store that was run in Shelby, but the man came in and he went to the manager, he took all the keys and changed the locks on the door the same day, and none of us could get in and out, the manager or nobody else. [Laughter] And then we started getting ready to close the store.
DW: So you didn%u2019t have too much notice about having to get another job?
CC: They didn%u2019t have any notice at that time, because this man just came in and locked all the doors and changed the locks.
DW: And that was that.
CC: That was it. That was it. So that was that.
DW: And so, from there, you ended up at Rose%u2019s?
CC: From King%u2019s, let%u2019s see, where did I go from King%u2019s? King%u2019s, that%u2019s when I went to the mill--no, wait a minute, wait a minute--no, I went from King%u2019s to Rose%u2019s.
DW: How did you learn of a job there?
CC: Well, there was a P.H. Rose uptown. I went there first. There was a P.H. Rose. It wasn%u2019t the big Rose%u2019s; it was P.H. Rose, and I went there for part-time because I had a friend that worked there, and so he hired me right around Christmas time to help there. I worked downstairs at that P.H. Rose, and then they started laying off after that. I had a friend that had--they had a lunch counter there, and I would help at the lunch counter. Then I had a white friend there, and she told me I can get a job out at Rose%u2019s, the big Rose%u2019s, so she worked me in out there at another Rose%u2019s. That%u2019s how I got out there.
DW: How did you like working the lunch counter?
CC: Oh, I liked it. They%u2019d tip; they%u2019d leave you a nickel or a dime on the table. [Laughter] I liked that pretty good. [Laughter] DW: When you moved to the bigger Rose%u2019s store, did they have a lunch counter?
CC: They didn%u2019t have one, no.
DW: Did you go back to working in the men%u2019s department?
CC: Really, at the big Rose%u2019s you worked anywhere, most anywhere, wherever they needed you most. I was more or less over the domestic department, but if they needed me back in another department, I%u2019d have to go there and get on a register. I had to work on the registers too.
DW: You had mentioned that you had awards.
CC: Yeah, I got several awards. I got an award from the--let%u2019s see, my first award I got was from the Negro Woman%u2019s Club here in Shelby. You kept it a year. You got a big trophy about that high. That%u2019s for what I did here in Shelby, so I kept it a year. I was working at Cohen%u2019s at that time. Mr. Cohen thought that was the greatest thing. Oh, he just smiled. He would tell everybody about it. I kept that a year. Then the next award I got--well, I got several from my church. Then the Senior Center here in Shelby, the Senior Citizens Center, they had tested out people that wanted to be on the Christmas parade. No, they always had a--now wait, let me get it straight. They had a program every day in May. They had a program, a talent show, and the one that did the best talent, of course, they would choose them. They had this talent show and I sang a song of %u201CSometimes I Feel Like a Motherless Child,%u201D and those people was tore up when it turned out that I won that night. I won that song that night. Then I got that award. That%u2019s that high thing right there. The thing that%u2019s standing up. [Showing award] Then I had to ride in the Christmas parade.
DW: Oh. [Laughter] Now was the Christmas parade in downtown Shelby?
CC: Here, yeah. So I got that award there and I was very proud, very proud of it. [Laughter] Then I got several awards from church. I got an award from Rose%u2019s store. I got an award from the district. I got one for the associate of the month, and then I got one for the district.
DW: Oh, okay.
CC: And I got an award from the NAACP for being in it fifty years. And I got an award from Shiloh Church. It%u2019s kind of dirty, ain%u2019t it? This is the one from Senior Citizens. That was 1984. And then I got an award for being Sunday School Superintendent at church for thirteen years. Then I was superintendent again and I got it for three years. This was for my NAACP.
DW: Nice. Okay.
CC: That%u2019s one of them, and the other one is for being in it for fifty years; I got two from the NAACP.
DW: Okay, okay, that%u2019s a lot of awards there. [Interruption] I had actually paused the recorder for a second because the mike failed, but I%u2019m just saying what you just showed were all your awards from Rose%u2019s and from your church and from the NAACP and--.
CC: Senior Citizens.
DW: Senior Citizens Center. [Pause] Oh, wow! And this is Goodwill? [Looking at an award] CC: Uh-huh.
DW: So, just so people know why this silence, we%u2019re looking at a newspaper article called %u201CGood With Your Hands.%u201D
CC: Oh, there%u2019s a lot of them that remember it even now. They say, %u201CDidn%u2019t we see you in the paper a few months ago?%u201D It%u2019s been about three, been, yeah, been four years now. The gift of giving.
DW: That%u2019s nice. So you had mentioned with one of your awards that you had a lire--maybe not a lifetime achievement--but that you had been in the NAACP for a long time.
CC: Fifty years.
DW: How did you come to get involved with the NAACP?
CC: I joined in the NAACP when I first came to Shelby. It wasn%u2019t but a dollar then; now it%u2019s thirty dollars per year. [Laughter] That%u2019s how I got involved. Then I worked in it. I was a membership secretary for a long time. You can turn that over too. There%u2019s some more stuff in there.
DW: Oh, okay.
CC: This is a lot of writing: I was the oldest Goodwill employee.
DW: Wow.
CC: All over the nation.
DW: You?
CC: The oldest one.
DW: Ninety? [Laughter] CC: [Laughter] DW: So what made you decide that you wanted to keep working?
CC: Well, I just like to work. I would have been working now, but my body tells me to come out, so that%u2019s why I had to come out of working. [Laughter] Yes, sir.
DW: Nice, yeah.
CC: This was my birthday when I had my birthday.
DW: That%u2019s nice.
CC: I think that%u2019s my going-away party. It might be another birthday. This is what they wrote.
DW: How nice.
CC: All this is Goodwill.
DW: Okay. And how did you end up coming to work at Goodwill?
CC: Oh, this is when Ronald carried me to Charleston for my ninetieth birthday; he carried me there. When I was drawing--you know how you can draw when you%u2019re out of work? [Laughter] As old as I was, I went down there and I was drawing, drawing unemployment, so the man was there. I was eighty or eighty-two or something like that when I was drawing unemployment, and the lady said, %u201CThere%u2019s a man here from Goodwill that%u2019s wanting to hire somebody,%u201D and says, %u201CHe may hire you. Just go back there and sign up.%u201D I went back there and he hired me then. He hired me right away. I was eighty-something years old.
DW: That%u2019s amazing.
CC: It is. I was surprised. That%u2019s how I got there, and they didn%u2019t want me to leave when I left two years ago. I said, %u201CYou know I can%u2019t keep up with these young people around here.%u201D They said, %u201CWell, you%u2019re running rings around them now.%u201D I said, %u201CYeah, but I feel it too.%u201D [Laughter] I was in the hanging department, you know, in the receiving department where you had to hang clothes.
DW: Okay.
CC: Ronald, you heard a lot you didn%u2019t know about me didn%u2019t you? [Laughter] Especially when I was on the farm around.
DW: You had said before how hard it was when you were working with the Cohens, to be married and working away, being married and working away from home for such a long period of time.
CC: Oh, yeah. Yeah, that%u2019s not good.
DW: When you got married again, were you already working at the store?
CC: Yeah, I was working at Cohen%u2019s then, I think. Yeah, I was working at Cohen%u2019s and then at the store.
DW: Okay.
CC: But I moved to town, so I was living here in town then.
DW: Oh, okay, so you didn%u2019t have to live on the houses over there.
CC: I didn%u2019t have to live out at Boiling Springs.
DW: So the Cohen family lived in Boiling Springs?
CC: No, they lived out at Cleveland Springs, going toward Charlotte, the Cleveland Springs.
DW: Oh, okay.
CC: It%u2019s about two miles from here.
DW: Okay, okay. Headed going west on 74?
CC: Right, it%u2019s on the old 74. There are two 74s. [Laughter] DW: Okay. Cleveland Springs?
CC: Cleveland Springs, um-hmm.
DW: So you had talked about when you joined the NAACP, when you came to town. Were you involved in any other kind of organizations?
CC: Not really. Not really any other organizations. I just did a lot of church work and worked with the young people and community work like that. Not really. I didn%u2019t have the time because I was working. I didn%u2019t have the time. [Laughter] DW: Well, I hear you%u2019re very busy, a busy lady.
CC: Yeah, I%u2019ve been very busy, very busy.
DW: I guess I%u2019ll ask you, just having lived in Shelby for so long, what have you seen that has changed? What have you seen that%u2019s changed a lot since--?
CC: In Shelby?
DW: Yes, ma%u2019am.
CC: Well, first of all, the whole thing is there%u2019s no shopping center, there%u2019s no stores, no good stores in Shelby. Everything is eating joints, all up and down the street, all up and down the street is eating joints, all around in Shelby. So we don%u2019t have any good stores in Shelby now, because Belk%u2019s moved out to the mall. Well, Belk%u2019s is not no good out there, and Penney%u2019s moved from there to Gastonia, so Belk%u2019s and Sears are the biggest stores that we have here. That%u2019s out at the mall. All these others are just little, you know, these little corner stores. There%u2019s nothing in Shelby.
DW: Do you remember when Cleveland Mall was built? Was that when downtown started to die out?
CC: Yeah, that%u2019s when it kind of died out, because when Cleveland Mall was built, Belk%u2019s moved over there and so did J.C. Penney%u2019s.
DW: Did you ever want to work for either of those stores?
CC: No, I didn%u2019t ever work for them. A lot of people thought I worked for Belk%u2019s, but I didn%u2019t.
DW: Did you want to?
CC: Not really, not really. You know, these chain stores, they have such complications, you know? And I%u2019m not good with paperwork. So now, I can%u2019t work with them anyway, not with registers, because I don%u2019t know nothing about these computers, not one thing, so I couldn%u2019t work at them anyway. [Laughter] DW: Yeah. I guess it sounds like you think it%u2019s kind of bad that there%u2019s so many restaurants popping up in downtown and not as many stores. Why do you think it%u2019s not the best thing for that to be?
CC: I think we need some nice stores in Shelby, we really do. See, the theater is just now opening up. There was no theater in Shelby until just recently. The theater just opened up again. There used to be three theaters in Shelby. But you know the one that%u2019s opened up, you mentioned when you came in? That%u2019s the only one. I haven%u2019t even been down there either. See, when I was a little girl, Shelby was so crowded that when I first started working at Cohen%u2019s, you couldn%u2019t walk up and down the street there would be so many people shopping, shopping, shopping. Christmas time, you just couldn%u2019t--you%u2019d just have to push yourself. You can look at one end to the other now. You don%u2019t see nothing. [Laughter] Nothing.
DW: So you think having more clothing stores or big anchor stores would help bring more people back?
CC: Yeah, they would. But see, we%u2019d have to go, like, I have to go to Gastonia, but since I%u2019ve become of age, I don%u2019t like to go down there by myself. I don%u2019t like to travel by myself now on the highway. I get somebody to go with me. But there%u2019s no decent stores around here. None at all, men nor women%u2019s. We used to have a nice men%u2019s store. We used to have a real expensive ladies%u2019 stores, and none of that is here, nothing. And what the clothes they%u2019re making now is for young people, not for older people. Can%u2019t find nothing decent to wear. [Laughter] But it%u2019s just so much a great change. There%u2019s nothing to pull you here, nothing to pull you. No mills here, no jobs here. See, all the mills are closed around here. PPG is way out of town, and then there%u2019s another mill way down in the southern part, so there%u2019s nothing here, nothing in Shelby but eating joints. That%u2019s just about all there is. I bet there%u2019s a hundred eating joints all the way around the downtown.
DW: Did you ever think about leaving Cleveland County, leaving Shelby?
CC: No, I%u2019ve never been nowhere else. [Laughter] Not now! [Laughter] If I was younger, I would love to live in Florida--Miami. Other than that, no.
DW: Oh, really?
CC: I have a nephew that lives in Florida. You might have heard of him, Mel Phillips?
DW: Oh, yeah.
CC: That%u2019s my nephew. That%u2019s my sister%u2019s son.
DW: Oh, wow, yeah.
CC: Yeah, he%u2019s retired now. Oh, in fact, they retired him. You know, when they change coaches, they change them all. But it%u2019s time; he%u2019s about sixty-seven, sixty-five, something like that. Yeah, that%u2019s my nephew.
DW: Okay, okay.
CC: So they always gave me a trip every year to the Bahamas. I told them this year, I%u2019m staying home because I%u2019m not going anywhere. I said, %u201CI%u2019m getting too old to try to keep up with you all.%u201D [Laughter] DW: When you traveled with the Cohens, did that ever make you feel like you wanted to live somewhere else?
CC: I still love Florida. We would go to Florida in the wintertime, and go to New York in the summer. Go to New York in the spring, for Passover; go to Myrtle Beach in the summer. But I love Florida. But it was so funny when we went to Florida. It was before integration, and we stayed at one hotel, got the bed fixed up. The baby and I slept in one room. The maids down there were all white. One of the maids got to complaining to the boss that she wasn%u2019t going to make up my bed and clean up my room, so they had to move. Ain%u2019t that a shame? I could do my own bed; they didn%u2019t have to do it. [Laughter] I had to move.
DW: Wow.
CC: I tell you, it was something, but you have to put up with it. I mean, that was their rules.
DW: Yeah, it seems like it was harsher in%u2026
CC: %u2026It was because they were Jews.
DW: Yeah. One of the last things I ask is, if someone were to come to this interview twenty-five, fifty years from now, what would you want them to know about you or your life, or Cleveland County?
CC: [Laughter] I don%u2019t know. I wouldn%u2019t mind them knowing nothing about my life, but I couldn%u2019t say much about Cleveland County except what I%u2019ve already said. They can see how it%u2019s come out, which is a different place than what it used to be, a whole lot different.
DW: Do you like living here now?
CC: Yeah, I like it. I guess I%u2019ve never lived nowhere else, I have to like it. I like it living here, and I like this little spot here. It%u2019s just quiet; I don%u2019t have no problems. Yeah, I like Cleveland County. I don%u2019t want to go back on a farm, now.
DW: [Laughter] CC: No, not me. No more farms, ooh! You just don%u2019t know how hard that was. Ooh! Making molasses and shucking corn and cutting wheat--hard work, hard work.
DW: Did you raise your own animals too?
CC: We did when we was on the farm. Yeah, chickens and cows and pigs and mules. [Laughter] DW: Yeah, I can%u2026
CC: %u2026It was hard work, hard work%u2026
DW: %u2026I can believe it.
CC: We raised everything, like your cane, you know, you%u2019ve got to cut the cane down and the molasses mill would come around and they%u2019d hook the horses up, and they%u2019d go round and around. You don%u2019t know nothing about that. [Laughter] DW: So you didn%u2019t even really need to go to the store to get sugar or anything?
CC: The only thing we%u2019d have to get at the store would be sugar--anybody that dipped snuff--I didn%u2019t dip it--salt, pepper, and little stuff like that. Really didn%u2019t need that much money on the farm, you really didn%u2019t. We never was hungry. We had our own fruit trees--apple trees, pear trees. [Laughter] DW: Well, I%u2019ll ask this last question. When you moved to Shelby in the early fifties or late forties, was it about that time?
CC: When what?
DW: When you moved to Shelby.
CC: Oh, it was %u201938.
DW: In 1938?
CC: No, I didn%u2019t move when I first worked. I didn%u2019t move at that time. I probably didn%u2019t move to Shelby, probably was in the forties.
DW: Okay. You had talked before about the names of the neighborhoods in Shelby, so this is the Freeman community? Were you really aware of where you were moving and you knew you wanted to move into a certain community?
CC: Yeah, I was aware because when I first moved to Shelby I lived near my own church, right there, right in front of his grandparents, just another block over.
DW: Shiloh Baptist.
CC: Yeah, that%u2019s the old Shiloh now. The new Shiloh is over here.
DW: Did that change when they restructured the neighborhoods?
CC: No, it didn%u2019t really. We just wanted to build a new church, and one of the white people gave us the land. He gave the land for the parsonage, and he told us he would pay--we%u2019d pay--how did that go? Anyway, he%u2019d pay two-thirds and we%u2019d pay one-third of the land for the church, and that%u2019s how we got our church.
DW: Okay.
CC: Because that was his land, and he did it in honor of a lady that raised--she was a black lady and she raised him, but she worked for him all of her life, and they gave it in honor of her, Mary Weathers.
DW: Okay, sounds familiar. And I guess the last thing I%u2019ll ask you, is there anything else you would want to add that I didn%u2019t ask?
CC: I don%u2019t think so. I think I about got everything. [Laughter] I think when I got to talking, I got more than I thought I had. I mean, the things that you needed. Of course, you don%u2019t need the things like people giving awards for--you don%u2019t need all of that stuff.
DW: Oh, no, that%u2019s fine.
CC: Hmm?
DW: Oh, you%u2019re talking about awards?
CC: You don%u2019t need all that?
DW: Like the awards you got?
CC: Um-hmm.
DW: Oh, well that%u2019s, yeah, well, I think we talked a bit about that, but maybe not.
CC: You talked a bit about it, but no %u201Cwhy?%u201D [Laughter] DW: Oh.
CC: Did I cover it? Okay. [Laughter] DW: Well, thank you for doing this. I appreciate it.
CC: Well, I%u2019ve enjoyed it myself, because I talked about some things I had even forgotten about. [Laughter]

END OF INTERVIEW
Mike Hamrick, October 6th, 2010