DEBBIE BRIDGES WEBB

TRANSCRIPT %u2013 DEBBIE BRIDGES WEBB
[Compiled August 31st, 2010]

Interviewees: DEBBIE BRIDGES WEBB, NATALIE RAMSEY (DAUGHTER)

Interviewer: Rob Stephens

Interview Date: August 6th, 2010

Location: Red Bridges Barbecue Lodge, Shelby, NC

Length: Approximately 58 minutes

ROB STEPHENS: If you could say your name, your birth date, and where we are right now?
DEBBIE BRIDGES WEBB: Debbie Bridges Webb, 11-9-54, and we%u2019re at Red Bridges Barbecue Lodge in Shelby, North Carolina.
RS: [Pause] So, Bridges?
DW: Red Bridges.
RS: So Red Bridges is the whole last name?
NATALIE RAMSEY: Red Bridges Barbecue Lodge.
RS: Oh no, this is your name?
DW: My name is Debbie Bridges Webb.
RS: Okay. [Pause] [Brief discussion of information on life history form] And then were you born here in Shelby?
DW: Actually, I was born in Kershaw, South Carolina. [Discussion on how to spell Kershaw] RS: And are you married?
DW: No, divorced.
RS: Do you have children?
DW: Natalie Webb.
NR: Natalie Ramsey
DW: Excuse me--Natalie Ramsey.
RS: And what year were you born?
NR: 1981.
RS: Do you have any other children?
DW: And Chase Webb.
NR: He was born in 1985.
DW: K-E-R-S-H-A-W.
NR: You are smart, mom.
RS: And did you go to high school here?
DW: Um-hmm. Shelby.
RS: And what year?
DW: %u201973 is when I graduated.
RS: And did you do any other school?
DW: Oh, I did some business over at Cleveland Tech.
RS: Is that what Cleveland Community--?
NR: Cleveland Community.
DW: No, it was Cleveland Tech then.
NR: Cleveland Tech was twenty years ago.
DW: My mom told me that I could learn more out here than I could learn in any college.
RS: Wow, I bet that%u2019s right. The school of Red Bridges?
NR: Yeah, there you go.
RS: So you%u2019ve been working here ever since?
DW: Ever since.
RS: Okay.
DW: It%u2019s the only job I%u2019ve ever had.
RS: Do you have a title here?
DW: I%u2019m president now.
RS: Okay. [Telephone ringing] DW: They%u2019ll get it up front.
RS: One way I like to start these interviews, and kick me out, or I guess the accountant will kick us out.
DW: If he gets here, yeah, he will.
RS: I%u2019m paying attention, but sometimes I%u2019ll be looking at that (recorder), but it might be looking like I%u2019m not a good listener. If you could start out maybe telling me a little bit about your grandparents?
DW: My parents?
RS: Do you know anything about your%u2026?
DW: %u2026My grandparents?
RS: Yeah.
DW: Mother%u2019s side, no. I just have a couple of pictures when I was a baby and she was holding me, because she died before I was a year old. My father%u2019s lived across the street here, where the mall is. They lived in a white farmhouse with the barn, the creek, and everything else behind. There was a putt-putt and a go-cart track, so I went across the tracks, across the highway and played over there; that was my stomping ground as I grew up. Then the mall came in and bought the property. My grandmother and my grandfather never worked as far as I know. I%u2019m assuming they did the farm land. They were older, so they were retired. I remember my grandmother as always cooking in the kitchen and my grandfather always sitting out on the front porch.
RS: And how old were you when they--?
DW: I lost my father when I was eleven and I lost my grandmother when I was [pause] I would say maybe ten, eleven? And then my grandfather, I didn%u2019t lose until I was about thirteen or fourteen.
RS: Okay, so is there any specific memory of experiences with your grandparents out on the farm or playing putt-putt with them?
DW: No, they pretty much stayed at the house. They farmed a lot. You know--gardening. They had a barn that had a few animals. They had a billy goat. I remember more of my aunts and my uncles as far as memories. I remember making mud pies. I%u2019d always go to the kitchen and she would give me pots and pans to go out and make mud pies with my cousins when they%u2019d come up. I spent the night with them; they had their own little room with their little pot and everything in there back in the old days. I always stayed and slept with my aunt, because my aunt and uncle lived with them. That was my father%u2019s mother and father.
RS: And were they church-goers?
DW: [Pause] Yes, Elizabeth--Elizabeth Church--my grandmother more than my grandfather. She went a lot with my aunt.
RS: So is that something important in their lives? Is that something they talked about or just something they did routinely?
DW: They pretty much did routinely, but I remember them sitting down and reading out of the bible than I do anything. You know, they sat down--that was a lot what my grandfather did on the porch, and my grandmother always sat in the kitchen at the table with a fan and the bible on the table.
RS: Was this something that they tried to instill in you, or did they bring you along?
DW: I did go with them some, but I was a Presbyterian. That%u2019s where my mother would always--she worked every day five days. Well, back then it was six days a week, and she would have Glenn Poston and Don Poston always take me to church and pick me up, even when I was little and ruffled, with little ruffled panties showing out from underneath my dress tail, so I remember that. That%u2019s one of my childhood memories I remember.
RS: And who are the Postons?
DW: They were just friends. They were just friends that helped out in the restaurant.
RS: Okay.
DW: Did a lot of running and carrying me, I guess, where I needed to go while mom worked.
RS: So could you tell me a little bit about your parents and how this restaurant got going?
DW: My mom and dad started the business in 1946. They actually went to Dedmon%u2019s up on 18. It was called Dedmon%u2019s Barbecue. They stayed up there until 1947. You%u2019re looking at me funny.
NR: I%u2019m just thinking because they moved right beside Arnold%u2019s.
DW: That was after they were%u2026
NR: %u2026And then, we opened here in 1953.
DW: So, 1946.
RS: Could you say it just so they know--could you say who else is in the room?
NR: I%u2019m Debbie%u2019s daughter, Natalie Ramsey [laughter].
DW: [Laughter] The country bumpkins [laughter].
DW: In 1946, they started up at Dedmon%u2019s. Actually, I%u2019ve got one match cover book because I never knew they had those. I had two or three people that were fighting against each other on Ebay trying to get them for me. But, in 1946 they opened up. Stamey%u2019s, out of Lexington--the father used to have a wagon up here on the court square. He taught my father and Alston%u2019s father how to cook barbecue, and then he went to Lexington. I%u2019m assuming Stamey%u2019s is still there with the sons or grandsons running it now. In 1947, they went to Arnold%u2019s parking lot, which used to be a little restaurant with a sawdust floor. In 1953, everybody told them they were crazy for moving this far out, which, we%u2019re in the city limit now, but when they moved out here, they closed the one on 18 up. They kept the one uptown for about a year or so, but since 1953 this is where we%u2019ve been. We%u2019ve burnt twice: one time was to smoke damage; the second time, it gutted the whole place, so mom started over twice. I%u2019m the second generation. This is the third generation, and that precious little boy right there is the fourth generation.
RS: All right.
DW: He%u2019s Parker Ramsey.
RS: Okay.
DW: We%u2019ve been in several books, magazines, newspapers; that%u2019s what%u2019s all over the walls outside. Like I said, I lost my father in 1966, and my mom was the backbone of this business up until 1980--no, 1990. Then we lost her in 2008 at ninety-one.
RS: There%u2019s something about Shelby--I%u2019ve been here for a week and met more ninety-year-olds and hundred-year-olds that anywhere else, it just seems like. People just live long here.
DW: We have customers that when they come in here, they have to have a certain booth because either they had their first date there or somebody asked somebody to marry them up under the trees out here, when we had curb service. I mean, there%u2019s so many memories that people still come in and tell me about, which I really enjoy listening to. There%u2019s new ones all the time.
NR: Like yesterday.
DW: Like yesterday.
RS: What was that?
NR: A lady had called, and what was her name? I can%u2019t even remember, but she said that she used to work here years and years and years ago--that my mamaw%u2026
DW: %u2026Gail--Gail somebody%u2026
NR: %u2026hired her because she was going to--what was it? She was going to be a%u2026
DW: %u2026She was a missionary%u2026
NR: %u2026missionary, and she said she hired her just to sit out there and pray, just to see people--let her see--. Well, I don%u2019t know what I%u2019m trying to say.
DW: Let her see that the employees here were Christian people.
NR: That were Christian and, you know, that we were godly people around here.
DW: [Laughter] NR: So, my mamaw hired somebody to sit out there and pray, just to let them know that we%u2019re a Christian restaurant.
RS: That%u2019s good PR.
NR: And that%u2019s my mamaw there. [Looking at photo] She was a character.
DW: She really was.
NR: She was. She worked twelve-hour days every day. Every day. I don%u2019t see how she does it. Six hours, my feet are hurting, and she never complained.
DW: She got robbed back--I was, like, eighteen years old, so--. But they tore ligaments in her leg and stuff, and she had to have surgery.
RS: From the robbery?
DW: From the robbery. But instead of going home, we put a stool up here at the register and propped her leg up--she didn%u2019t believe in being out. She always said, %u201CIf you die, make sure the funeral is going to be on a Monday or Tuesday when we%u2019re closed,%u201D so bless her heart, she died on a Friday, but we waited and had her funeral on a Monday.
NR: She would have been mad.
DW: She really would have. She was a tough businesswoman but she had a heart of gold.
NR: If you ever had a problem, she would help you. It didn%u2019t matter; she would help you no matter what. It did not matter what. She would always just come and help you.
RS: Did she ever tell you all why she started this restaurant or what the inspiration was?
DW: My father was a cook in the war, and I think that was kind of his dream.
RS: Okay.
DW: When they came into it, you know--. My mother and my father%u2019s family--my father%u2019s family had a lot of land, but my mother%u2019s family was very poor, so she really, really made a heritage, you know? And hopefully, my children will take over, which I have confidence that they will, and they%u2019re in here working now, and hopefully, the fourth generation will, too.
RS: Was your mother%u2019s family in Cleveland County?
DW: Mother%u2019s family was from Kershaw, from where I was adopted in Kershaw.
RS: Okay. And then she moved up here when she met your father, or did they--?
DW: They went on a blind date; that is the way my mother and father met. She had moved up here, and she worked at Lily Mill. That was her first job there, and that%u2019s where she worked until after the war. Then, when Daddy came home, that%u2019s when the Stamey%u2019s was leaving, and that%u2019s what he did--cook--so he was going into the barbecue business. And nothing has changed: I%u2019ve not changed the way we cook it; I%u2019ve not changed the sauce, and I%u2019ve not changed the slaw; I%u2019ve not changed the hushpuppies. Now, ingredients--people change, companies change and I can%u2019t do anything about it, but it makes a difference. It makes a big difference.
RS: I can%u2019t wait to try it.
DW: Good! [Laughter] RS: Is this your dad? [Looking at photo] DW: That%u2019s my father. That%u2019s my father. And out front--I don%u2019t know if you noticed, but the big picture of the restaurant--?
RS: I just walked right in and%u2026
DW: %u2026Okay, it was made from a postcard, actually that postcard right there on that decoupage. A customer brought me this huge print, and I had it framed, and then I put Father and Mother on each side of it, so, and then the rest of it is articles from newspapers and pictures of my family.
RS: And my precious baby, Parker.
DW: And last year we started selling--my father and mother were good friends with Billy and Ruth Graham.
RS: Oh. Oh, wow.
DW: This was his favorite barbecue place to eat.
RS: Oh, wow.
DW: And there%u2019s a picture out there of my father and Ruth and Billy. But now, we take--I took fifty pounds of barbecue--and they sell it down there at the library. That was Billy Graham%u2019s favorite; they try to keep his favorites and her favorites, and that was one thing they put in there--our barbecue.
RS: Wow. So, did you say every week?
DW: Every week.
NR: Sometimes twice a week.
RS: Oh, wow. I still haven%u2019t gone there to see it yet.
DW: That is an awesome place.
NR: Oh, it%u2019s beautiful. You definitely need to go.
RS: Okay.
DW: You do.
RS: Great. And so, I%u2019ve heard there was a book that was put out, a big old book about barbecue in North Carolina.
DW: I%u2019ve got a whole stack of books in there.
NR: We%u2019ve probably been in over twenty books, and we%u2019ve got them all back here.
RS: But one of my friends did a review of it, and he said the person didn%u2019t talk enough about how the connection between tobacco farming and barbecue, and do you know anything about that? Because I think the barbecue used to be cooked in the tobacco barns and was done seasonally.
DW: Now you%u2019re getting way before my time [laughter].
RS: Okay. You know, I don%u2019t know anything about it. This is just a thing I%u2019ve read.
NR: But we still pit-cook our barbecue, that, most people don%u2019t do any more.
RS: And could you explain to me that process?
NR: You go right ahead, darling. You can deal with everything.
DW: Would you like to go out there and see that process? You can after this.
RS: After this, and I%u2019ll record it too.
DW: Actually, if you%u2019ll go look out back, we have a woodpile out there that%u2019s probably as long as the restaurant. We used to use only hickory, but it%u2019s hard to get only hickory, so we use hickory and oak. We use shoulders, not butts, and we get our meat from Courier%u2019s, from out in--gosh, where is it? It%u2019s on the other side of Charlotte, but anyway, my meat cookers come in about eight o%u2019clock, nine o%u2019clock; they burn the pits off; they start a fire so they can get the ashes; and then they take the shoulders, and they lay them with the skin down so it drains and it holds the juice. After they put them on the pits, then they take the hot coals with a shovel, and spread the coals underneath the meat. They do that process and they turn them about every thirty, forty-five minutes and just keep doing that process for six, seven, eight hours. It used to be shoulders were five and six pounds--now, shoulders are anywhere from fifteen to twenty pounds. So after they get through cooking their shoulders and their day%u2019s over, they put them on a cooker out here that keeps them warm until we get here, and keeps them warm all day long for us to serve.
RS: Okay.
DW: I do not use a machine to cut my meat; I%u2019ve got one man that stands back there sometimes all day long; he never gets a break cutting meat.
RS: Wow.
DW: The most shoulders I%u2019ve ever cut and cooked in one day--I think we did seventy, which I said we would never do again, because I mean we were all dragging out here, so our max is usually sixty shoulders.
RS: Sixty shoulders? Okay.
DW: For a day.
RS: And how many sandwiches would that make? Is that a tough question?
DW: Hold that thought.
NR: Naman, he%u2019s been here--the guy that cuts meat--.
DW: We do it (21:24), or we didn%u2019t do it, but I don%u2019t know if you%u2019re familiar with Jim Early; he has started the North Carolina Barbecue Society%u2026
RS: %u2026Okay, yeah, but I%u2019ve seen his name, yeah.
DW: Okay, he had a boot camp two weekends ago in Asheville, and that%u2019s why I%u2019ve got this information.
NR: He figured out how many sandwiches this kind of shoulder would make. You know, it was neat.
RS: A boot camp. All right.
DW: It%u2019s a boot camp; it%u2019s where you go and learn the heritage. And this is our pit master--he%u2019s retired now, so we%u2019ve got a new one.
RS: His name is--?
DW: His name is Phillip Schenck.
RS: Okay.
DW: He figured if we cook a hundred-and-ninety to two-hundred-and-twenty pork shoulders per week, fifty weeks per year for thirty years--the math: twenty-plus pork shoulders per week, times fifty weeks per year, times thirty years is three-hundred-thousand pork shoulders times fourteen pounds per shoulder is 4,200,000 pounds of pork, give-or-take a sandwich.
RS: [Laughter] So that%u2019s how much--?
DW: That%u2019s for thirty years.
RS: For thirty years. You%u2019ve been here double that.
DW: We%u2019ve been here for--sixty-four years?
NR: Yes.
DW: Sixty-four years.
RS: Wow! That%u2019s incredible. That%u2019s a lot of pig.
NR: That%u2019s a lot of barbecue.
DW: Actually, we just bought a new book. Down here at Tractor Supply, they told it they were going to put it back for us that has the U.S.--Michael and Jane Stern--was one of the first books we were ever in, but it%u2019s got us in there too.
RS: Okay.
NR: But it%u2019s a magazine.
DW: It%u2019s a mag%u2026well, a magazine
NR: It%u2019s a barbecue magazine.
RS: Okay.
DW: U.S. Barbecue.
RS: And I noticed the pit master is African-American, so has there always been African-American workers here, or has it just been give-or-take?
DW: No, actually, Donny Church used to cook here, and he was a white guy.
RS: Okay.
DW: But that%u2019s the only white guy I%u2019ve ever known to cook.
RS: To be a pit master?
DW: To be a pit master.
RS: Would you say in this area there%u2019s about an even split of African-American and white, or is it mostly African-American, mostly white?
DW: Mostly African-American.
RS: Okay, that%u2019s something I didn%u2019t know.
DW: Mostly African--I mean, I%u2019ve never thought of it that way. Now, in here [looking at book] you have Bill Easton, and in this book you have a lot of--I don%u2019t think any of them are--. That%u2019s Jim Early. This is all kind of cooking-- this is ribs; this is chicken; this is not just pork.
RS: Okay.
DW: You know, this is all of the cooking. But for me, and what I have observed through the years, most of them are African-Americans, yes.
RS: Did your dad--was he a pit master or did he have another pit master?
DW: No, my dad, he did a lot of catering. I%u2019m talking ten thousand people that they would feed in three shifts, like in these big mills. They would go in and they would feed them all: first, second, and third shift. I think ten thousand people is the most that I, [silverware clanging] when I look back, because I%u2019ve still got these. You know, mother did not throw anything away, and I%u2019m still going through her house and I%u2019m finding receipts and catering jobs. I think it was, like, three dollars a plate back years and years ago. But he fed a lot of people in Gastonia; he did a lot of political parties back then. But that%u2019s something my dad always said: %u201CYou don%u2019t talk politics and you don%u2019t talk religion at the counter.%u201D He said, %u201CIf you%u2019re talking to a Republican, you%u2019re a Republican. If you%u2019re talking to a Democrat, you%u2019re a Democrat,%u201D and he said, %u201CYou%u2019re not going to make your customers mad.%u201D
RS: That%u2019s right.
DW: And I see that; I do.
RS: Okay. Now, was he involved in politics outside of the--?
DW: I was kind of young, so I really don%u2019t remember that part.
RS: Okay, and your mother?
DW: No.
RS: Yeah. I know the museum would be probably interested in taking a look at some of those artifacts in the files if you%u2019re interested at all, to have them kind of available to the community. They have a good system, I think, so I%u2019ll mention it to them if you don%u2019t mind.
DW: Gardner-Webb%u2019s got a lot. I%u2019ve not been able to go through all of them, but I have went and looked up some really specific dates, and I have found things that I have copied.
RS: Okay.
DW: Yes, but that%u2019s probably going to be your best place to go because they%u2019ve got them all.
RS: Great. So I know pit masters--when did the restaurant integrate, assuming it wasn%u2019t integrated before?
DW: I can remember, but I could not give you a date.
RS: No, I don%u2019t care about the date, really, but more about how it was.
DW: And we still have them that come through the back door.
RS: People just don%u2019t--?
DW: They just don%u2019t, and I try to get them to come through the front door, but they all come through the back door and put their orders in. I don%u2019t know if you%u2019ve ever heard of barbecue skins%u2026
RS: %u2026I know of pork rinds, but%u2026
DW: %u2026Okay, well, it%u2019s about the same thing, sort of. What it is, is when you cut a shoulder you have the skin part, and we just pop it off and we put in a bag. I sell them for six dollars a bag--a dollar a pound is what it comes out to, and I can%u2019t keep them. Now, a lot of people feed them to their hunting dogs because it makes them have a sheen--and good for their coat, but people put them in green beans--they just fry them out. Not very good for you--for your health, but dip them in some barbecue sauce--mmm! They%u2019re really good.
RS: Okay. I might have to. Do you have some here?
DW: I don%u2019t have them on the menu, but I can fix you some.
RS: That would be great.
DW: Yes, I can.
RS: That would be great. So were you alive--well, I guess you were--when you integrated?
DW: I was. I was actually in grammar school, because I remember the schools. When my mother died, she told me: %u201CI%u2019m leaving you twenty-something children to take care of,%u201D and she said, %u201Chalf of them%u2019s black and half of them%u2019s white.%u201D I really didn%u2019t understand what she meant by that until after I had been in here working for about a month or two, and then I realized these people depend on me, and I%u2019m here for them. Just like Natalie said, Mother was there for you, and you know, they%u2019re my children, you know? I take care of them, but they%u2019re my family also. That%u2019s what%u2019s made this business so successful. It%u2019s not just my mother or my father, but it%u2019s everybody that%u2019s worked here because we work as a team and we%u2019re a family. You know, something happens to one, everybody gets involved in it.
RS: This might be a vague question, but what are some of the most interesting stories that you have about working here or (29:45) here--things that happened? I know you talked about the fires, but--?
DW: But I don%u2019t remember that much about the integration. I remember it, but I guess it was just an easy thing that happened, and we went into it without any, you know--.
RS: So you don%u2019t remember any sort of tension around it or questions being asked?
DW: No.
RS: But before that, how did it work?
DW: They would come in the back door and get their orders and leave.
RS: Okay. So they would just come back there and they wait and--?
DW: Um-hmm.
RS: Okay, but at the same time there was still--were there black workers?
DW: Oh, yeah. Always.
RS: Always.
DW: Always. We%u2019ve always been pretty much half-and-half.
RS: And were they generally in the kitchen or were there some that were servers?
DW: They%u2019ve always been in the kitchen or--here in the last ten years, I guess, maybe fifteen years, we%u2019ve had them in the sandwich department, but that%u2019s just--it just never has presented itself. My waitresses, and I don%u2019t mean this ugly, but you have to die, just about, to get a waitress job out here. I had one lady that worked for me for thirty-something years, and her niece is out here now, working for me. My other waitresses, I think the least one is Trish, and I really don%u2019t know how long Trish has been here. She%u2019s probably been here--and I waited a long time to get her from the Winter House. It actually had to close down for me to get her, and it just all worked out. But the most interesting?
RS: It doesn%u2019t have to be the %u201Cmost,%u201D you know, just--.
DW: Yeah, we%u2019ve had quite a few. Mickey Rooney%u2019s been in here--he come through the door--he was the first customer here; he was in Charlotte and he came down and came in. We%u2019ve got a whole thing of pictures of him. I mean, he was just wonderful. You know, he%u2019s a little, short man and my mother was a little, short lady. We let him eat, and he came in and he came back here; he talked to everybody; it was wonderful. One of the soap opera stars come in. A lot of people--Charlie Daniels Band--I didn%u2019t even know until the other day, they were in here. A lot of you older race car drivers have been in here. [Pause] I can%u2019t think of the soap opera%u2019s name. Andy McDowell, she comes in here now. She%u2019ll come in and get to-go orders a lot of times, and she came in and brought somebody and ate at the counter a couple of months ago. I could go on and on; I really could.
RS: I%u2019m always curious to ask: what%u2019s your opinion or your thoughts on the western versus eastern barbecue in North Carolina?
DW: I think it%u2019s all what you grew up with. You know, you%u2019ve got your mustard-base; you%u2019ve got your vinegar-base. Ours is a vinegar base, but it%u2019s not--a lot of it%u2019s like water. Ours isn%u2019t; we cook it. We%u2019ve got two big, huge pots back there; we cook the sauce on every day except on the weekends. I don%u2019t think we%u2019re doing it on the weekends now unless we get behind. If we get behind, because we ship sauce everywhere.
RS: Oh, yeah.
DW: People will call us and ask us. Barbecue, I would love to ship, but it%u2019s so expensive. You pay three times what you pay for the meat, and I don%u2019t think that%u2019s fair. But if they want it, I will do it.
RS: It%u2019s a lot to ask.
DW: It is. There%u2019s a lot of memories out here, but right now they%u2019re just not coming to my mind right now.
RS: Oh, that%u2019s okay.
DW: I remember, as a child I used to sit out here on the freezer. I used to torment the curb boys to death. I mean, I tormented them to death. I look back now and I can see that. I%u2019ve just got a lot of good memories out here with a lot of people.
RS: So what do you think is the best thing and the worst thing that has over the--I guess you%u2019ve been around for a half-century, so--that%u2019s happened over the past forty years?
DW: The worst thing?
RS: Um-hmm.
DW: I lost my mom. That was probably one of the hardest things I%u2019ve ever done. I really, really miss her. And the best thing is [pause] probably Billy Graham calling and wanting to sell our barbecue down there. That makes me really proud to know that this is one of his favorite places, because I highly, highly respect that man. You know, I think he%u2019s one of the really, really good Christians left in this world that doesn%u2019t have a lot of baggage behind him. I think my mom and my dad and I both learned a lot from him.
RS: And as far as Shelby goes, as the community, you could take that question there as well, as far as the best thing that%u2019s changed and the worst thing that%u2019s changed.
DW: The best thing, I guess, is seeing customers that have come in here and watched little kids grow up and then they come in here and they have little kids, and hopefully, that they will grow up. That%u2019s a very good thing. We used to have two ladies that come in here every day at eleven o%u2019clock, bless her heart. One%u2019s deceased now and the other one is in really bad health, with Alzheimer%u2019s. But every day, eleven o%u2019clock, they had to have their--and if they didn%u2019t get their table they were real upset, so we just to where we put their drinks on their table before they opened the doors.
RS: [Laughter] DW: Had the same thing every single day for years.
RS: What did they have?
DW: She had a cheeseburger--not barbecue, but a cheeseburger; and Mary always had a small sliced tray.
RS: Okay. That%u2019s always neat.
DW: And we still have people that come in here every week. They had the gun show up here and I had one guy that he come in here three times last week. He said, %u201CI%u2019ve been here three days in a row,%u201D and he said, %u201Cand I%u2019m still not tired of it.%u201D I said, %u201CWell, good, good.%u201D And I think the most confused thing is our barbecue slaw because a lot of articles, when you read them, and the last one says it%u2019s %u201Cinfused with barbecue sauce%u201D; we don%u2019t put barbecue sauce in our slaw at all. Everybody thinks we have barbecue sauce, but we don%u2019t in our slaw. My son makes the slaw, but he doesn%u2019t eat it; so for once, it%u2019s consistent because he does the same thing every time, but he doesn%u2019t eat it.
RS: So if you were going to correct them, how is the slaw made?
DW: Well, the red is ketchup, but everybody thinks it%u2019s barbecue sauce but it%u2019s not--it%u2019s ketchup.
RS: Do people usually do the barbecue sauce?
DW: I think there are a lot of barbecues that do use the barbecue sauce in their slaw, but we don%u2019t. I try to tell people when they%u2019re interviewing me, but for some reason, it gets that barbecue sauce every single time.
RS: Well, I%u2019m not going to write an article, so your points will speak for itself.
DW: [Laughter] RS: So unless they are confused by that--. So did either of your children go away or have they been in Shelby all the time?
DW: They%u2019ve been here the whole time. Now, Natalie went to Appalachian and she did go to Charlotte, but that was not her cup of tea.
RS: So what do you think made her come back?
DW: Natalie can%u2019t be away from Mama.
RS: Okay.
DW: She%u2019s just right around the block from me now, and my son--he just came straight into the business.
RS: Okay, great. So, 21st Century is the next thing that we%u2019re trying to get folks to talk about what--honestly, there are a few different ways, maybe. How do you think Shelby will look in twenty years? Best case scenario, worst case scenario--what do you think is the future for Shelby or Cleveland County wider?
DW: I don%u2019t know if I want to say this [laughter].
RS: You can always pause it if you want.
DW: Shelby has given away a lot of its heritage, and it%u2019s giving a lot of--example: the Hamfest.
RS: Can you tell me what that is?
DW: That is your CB radios. Do you know what CB radios are?
RS: Is it old--? What?
DW: No, it%u2019s not old; truck drivers, they have a handle; they have a name. I%u2019ve never been into that, but that%u2019s what it is; it%u2019s the Hamfest that the Cleveland County Fairgrounds has had for years. One of the biggest weeks of the year for me out here, and they gave it away. They let Gaston County have it. Don%u2019t ask me why, but you just don%u2019t give money like that--you don%u2019t give things that bring money into the county away like that.
RS: It makes no sense.
DW: It makes no sense whatsoever. The Cleveland County Fairground has been there for years and years and years. It%u2019s slowly going away. For what reasons? There%u2019s probably a lot of reasons, but I%u2019m not going to say those reasons because I don%u2019t--I%u2019m just not going to say them.
RS: That%u2019s fine.
DW: But I see that hurting the county, I really do. The county is growing; a lot of people are coming here, the %u201CCity of Pleasant Living,%u201D which is on the sign as you come in.
RS: The City of Pleasant Living?
DW: The City of Pleasant Living. It is a very quiet, quiet county. It%u2019s starting to get a lot louder than it used to be, but I still see Cleveland County as being--it%u2019s a beautiful county. I went to Chicago and stayed for about a month, back in my young, young days. Kind of a wild child for a very short time, but when I come back, I really appreciated Cleveland County--the way it looks, the heritage here. You know, the memories. I hope they don%u2019t give any more of our heritage away. The chamber does a wonderful job on trying to get businesses here, but they need to keep what we have. They don%u2019t need to let it go somewhere else.
RS: If you were to be talking to a young person who%u2019s gone away to college from Shelby, what would you tell them to convince them to come back here and work or start a business?
DW: [Pause] If this is where they were raised and this is where their family is--. There%u2019s three things my mother taught me: God first, family second, and job third. If you live by those three things right there, you%u2019re pretty much going to make it. You%u2019re pretty much going to make it where you need to be, because you need family to help you, for number one. I know families are not what they used to be and I know they branch out. You know, you may have one living in California; you may have one living here, and that may work for a lot of people. But my family stays close, and you should always stay close to your family. If not here--because a lot of jobs are going to take you elsewhere, you know?
RS: Yeah.
DW: Because it%u2019s just not here, but you always keep them in your heart and you%u2019ll do good.
RS: This is just curious, because my first time down here was for the shooting of Blood Done Sign My Name, the movie that they did on the square. Do you remember that? What was the feeling when that came down? I%u2019m just kind of curious; was it a buzz, or was it just kind of not a big thing at all?
DW: No, actually, we%u2019ve been in one of Earl Owensby%u2019s movies. What was it, Death Screams? I was actually pregnant with Natalie. They came out here and used this as kind of a [pause] I guess, a gory scene, because they took my screen door that I had out here and they took a hatchet through it. I can just remember that. You know, they come in here and they shot it; it was a whole-day thing. Earl Owensby was the star in the movie. We%u2019ve also done a hot sauce commercial--Red Hot?
RS: Okay.
DW: They%u2019ve rented the building out for a day. They came in; they changed the dining room; they had curtains up. Never saw the commercial.
RS: Huh-oh.
DW: It ran in Atlanta, in places like that. A few people said they saw it, but I never personally saw it. Oh, I%u2019m sorry; I did see it, but not on TV because they sent me a tape of it. It was for Red Hot Sauce, and after he took a bite, they fixed the counter stool to where it would spin around.
RS: Oh, okay.
DW: It was kind of neat, but that was just something that popped back in my mind. But the movie they shot up here, my manager can probably tell you more about that than I can, because he did the Winter House at the time it was up there, and I think he was feeding some of those folks at the time. My manager%u2019s been with me for, I think, twelve years now.
RS: The Winter House was another barbecue spot?
DW: No, that was just a deli.
RS: A deli?
DW: A deli. His son did have that. It%u2019s changed hands since then.
RS: Usually my last question is: Is there anything that I forgot to ask or should have asked, or that you wish I had asked?--Something that you think people going through--go ahead.
DW: My mother always taught me: %u201CIf it%u2019s not broke, don%u2019t fix it,%u201D so that%u2019s why I%u2019ve tried not to change. I%u2019ve tried not to change anything. Southern Living, when they came in here and did that article on us about ten or fifteen years ago, they talked about the chandeliers, which is what%u2019s there now--the lights, the paneling. I%u2019m having to replace some of the paneling because it%u2019s bucking out; there%u2019s been water in there, but I think I%u2019m going to get that done. I%u2019ve got a guy that came and talked to me the other day. But don%u2019t change it, you know? Don%u2019t try to make it better. If you%u2019ve got something that works for you, keep it the way it is and it will keep working for you.
RS: All right. Well, thank you for this. I really appreciate your time.
DW: Well, you%u2019re welcome. You%u2019re welcome.
RS: Do you have time to show me the process?
DW: I do, I do. [Recorder turned off and back on] RS: Okay, can you tell us, where did we just walk into?
DW: Okay, this is the barbecue pits. This is where it all happens while everybody%u2019s sleeping. This is where we build a fire, [pause] and we have it ready to go for tonight.
RS: Okay.
DW: We put the logs in on the other side, on the back side, and then that%u2019s where we have the room to get the ashes on this side. We probably still have some. Oh, here we do; we have to clean them all up. Yep, this is where we lay the shoulders down and this is where we cook the shoulders.
RS: That%u2019s a beautiful sight.
DW: And of course, this is where we do the ashes.
RS: Put the coals?
DW: The coals.
RS: Okay.
DW: And every week, we take them out and start all over, but we lit them build up like that during the week.
RS: So the pit master has left for the day?
DW: Yes.
RS: Okay.
DW: They leave about five or six o%u2019clock in the morning.
RS: Oh, wow.
DW: And this is where we put the meat.
RS: Ooh! Wow!
DW: And this where we keep them hot and cold. Once he gets these cut up, then he will get those off of there and put them on here.
RS: Okay.
DW: We did start selling chicken. That%u2019s my meat man right there. That%u2019s who I get all my shoulders from.
RS: Okay.
DW: And I%u2019m not going to open this up. This is where we%u2019re doing our chickens. Okay?
RS: Is that a new thing?
DW: That%u2019s a new--well, it%u2019s about [pause] a couple of years. I was cooking them in here, but it was drying the meat out too much, so I had to do a cooker.
RS: Yeah. This is all right. So they chop wood out back and then bring it all in here?
DW: Let me wash my hands right quick and I%u2019ll be right back. [Pause] We don%u2019t use rubs; we don%u2019t use seasoning. This is the way the meat comes in. [Looking at packaging] RS: So it comes straight from Smithfield?
DW: Straight from them and not frozen. They just take this off right here; lay it on the pits. We don%u2019t salt it; we don%u2019t do nothing to it.
RS: Have y%u2019all been doing Smithfield for a long time?
DW: Actually, we used to do Hatfield years ago, but it got to where--. I%u2019m sorry; we did Lay%u2019s, then we went to Hatfield. Now we%u2019re with Smithfield. [Interruption--talking to meat supplier]. This is the little woodpile right here.
RS: Okay. You said it was a lot bigger than that.
DW: Well, you see it down there.
RS: Okay.
DW: Now, right there%u2019s where we put the wood in.
RS: Okay, and just put it straight in like this.
DW: From the outside, right. And I have one man that brings me all my wood.
RS: Okay. Is it all in the county, or--?
DW: And he stacks it. You%u2019ll never see a woodpile stacked any neater than this, or I%u2019ve never seen one. And this is what a lot of people comment on.
RS: Oh, wow!
DW: And it goes all the way down.
RS: That%u2019s all right. My family were missionaries in Kenya for a little while, and they had these woodpiles. I was a little kid, so it seemed like they were as big as that field. We%u2019d get in there and make little forts with tunnels all through it and stuff.
DW: Oh, were you not scared of the snakes?
RS: Well, we were dumb.
DW: [Laughter] And then, over here--this building here--this is where my daddy used to do all the catering. That%u2019s where he would cook all the meat when we did the catering.
RS: Okay, but is that used any more?
DW: That%u2019s storage. That%u2019s all that%u2019s used for right now.
RS: Wait, is this a cooker out here?
DW: That%u2019s where we used to burn our trash, but you can%u2019t do that any more--we%u2019re in the city, so you see my son has put tires in it [laughter].
RS: Did they outlaw it right before [laughter]--right as you were filling it?
DW: So now we just put it in the dumpster and they pick it up twice--and that%u2019s a grease thing right there; that%u2019s where we put our grease. They come and pick it up and they make lipstick out of it.
RS: Okay. That%u2019s a good circle of life.
DW: [Laughter] RS: So when the fire happened, did this grill burn up?
DW: [Pause] It didn%u2019t burn up. That%u2019s not where it started. It was an electrical problem in the office, or right in that vicinity where it started one time. Then, the second time, it was out in the pits, but you know, there%u2019s not a whole lot to burn because it%u2019s%u2026
RS: %u2026It%u2019s all brick%u2026
DW: %u2026it%u2019s all steel and brick and yada-yada-yada.
RS: So how old are these bricks?
DW: Let me see if I can find this, because I had this--actually, about fifteen years ago I had an engineer to come in because that gets so hot that it didn%u2019t last very long. I had to keep replacing it, so I had an engineer to come in, which, it didn%u2019t work either. It split; it cracked it. So now we have--it%u2019s like a wood-burning stove that we put in here, which it%u2019s going to have to be replaced again in the next year or two. But, when they rebuilt this--these are curb boys--Donny--that was my white-meat cooker.
RS: Just so they know, this is written on the brick.
DW: This is written on the brick, and I said, %u201CYou%u2019ve got to put these bricks back in here.%u201D %u201CHot%u201D--I don%u2019t even know who did that. That%u2019s Bob Roberts; that%u2019s Tom. I%u2019m not sure who that is right there.
RS: %u201CT.C.%u201D?
DW: Yeah.
RS: Wow, that%u2019s great.
DW: I had them to put those back in there because that was something that was original.
RS: Wow, great.
DW: There%u2019s Ben; that was Ben Roberts.
RS: And these are the ones that you tortured, that you tormented?
DW: Yes, yes, I did. And this was the curb room, which is now a handicapped bathroom because we had to put a handicapped bathroom in, so we did that there. Pigs, they%u2019ve been there as long as I can remember. The neon signs, all these are as original as I can remember.
RS: Okay.
DW: Now, this is not the original one, but it is as original as I am [laughter].
RS: Got you, got you. All right. Well, thanks. This has been wonderful.
DW: A lot of heritage here.
RS: I can%u2019t wait to try it.
DW: A lot of heritage here. And my little pigs are from customers, and there%u2019s also two pig cases in there that customers bring in. There%u2019s pigs from Hawaii, Jerusalem, everywhere.
RS: That%u2019s great.
DW: And I think I%u2019ve pretty much--no, let me show you one more thing. [Pause] This we call the slaw room. This is where we make the slaw, right here, and [pause] this is where we make the sauce.
RS: Oh, wow!
DW: Every day. Be careful because if you get up there and smell it, it will probably take your breath.
RS: Take my breath? So, do you mind telling me what%u2019s in there or is that a secret recipe?
DW: Secret--I%u2019d have to kill you if I told you [laughter].
RS: Well, as long as I know it (8:16) I might be all right.
DW: And this is what we use to stir it with. It%u2019s like a boat paddle.
RS: So how long will those two last you right there?
DW: [Pause] Right now, at this time of the year, a couple of days.
RS: Is this a big time of the year?
DW: Yes, this is my biggest time of the year right now. Saturday actually was one of the biggest days we ever had; it was.
RS: Wow. Well, I appreciate you taking the time during the biggest time of the year.
DW: Oh, well, you%u2019re welcome. You%u2019re welcome.
RS: I feel like I%u2019ve seen it all now.
DW: You%u2019ve seen it all now. [Recorder turned off and back on]. This is Mary, my tea lady.
RS: Hello.
DW: (00:15), I am so, so sorry. I am so, so sorry. This is (00:21). She%u2019s going to shoot me.
RS: It looked like she was about to.
DW: Oh, she is! And this is Tyrone.
RS: Hey, Tyrone.
DW: He does the hushpuppies.
RS: That%u2019s what I was hearing over there?
DW: Do what?
RS: That%u2019s what I was hearing in there?
DW: Yeah, that%u2019s the machine you were hearing right there.
RS: Can I see it go?
DW: See, we%u2019ve got it bolted to keep it together on the other side of the wall. And this is Naman.
RS: Hey, how you doing?
DW: He%u2019s the one that stands here and cuts meat all day; occasionally, (00:57) will give him a break--occasionally.
RS: I tell you, that%u2019s nice of you.
DW: He brings them in off of the cooker out there and slices them. This is the slop bucket.
RS: Do y%u2019all feed that to somebody?
DW: Actually, we have a man that picks it up and feeds it to his hunting dogs. But now, I have to sign a piece of paper saying that that%u2019s what he%u2019s doing, and he%u2019s not feeding it to%u2026
RS: %u2026People.
DW: No, it%u2019s not people. What is it, pigs?
RS: I bet it%u2019s--that%u2019s the%u2026
DW: Pigs. See, you can%u2019t feed that to pigs.
RS: The mad cow disease type thing.
DW: Yep. And you know something I found out yesterday? Actually, I was reading in my Pig Tales magazine I get, that they%u2019re going to start using pigs%u2019 bladders for people over in Afghanistan, in the war, when they get their arms and legs and stuff blown off, because it has a lot of collagen in it, and it makes human tissue grow.
RS: All right, pigs! [Laughter] DW: He wants to try a skin, so will you fry up a skin for me when you get a chance?
RS: I sure thank you.

END OF INTERVIEW
Mike Hamrick, August 31st, 2010