DOVER-ORA BASEBALL TEAM

TRANSCRIPT %u2013DOVER-ORA BALL TEAM
[Compiled April 8th, 2009]

Interviewee: BILL LYNN, CARL FREDERICK LYNN, JAKE KISER, ED PEELER, BILL SHERMAN, STEVE SHERMAN

Interviewer: Janet Hoshour

Interview Date: August 21st, 2008

Location: Shelby, North Carolina

Length: 59 minutes, 16 seconds

JANET HOSHOUR: OK, going around the room, can I get each of you to state your full name and where you were born?
CARL FREDERICK LYNN: Yes, m%u2019am. Me? Carl Frederick Lynn. I was born in Shelby, North Carolina--nineteenth of September 1922.
JH: Thank you, sir.
STEVE SHERMAN: I%u2019m Steve Sherman. I was born in Shelby in 1957.
ED PEELER: Ed Peeler, born in Shelby, 1936.
BILL SHERMAN: Bill Sherman, born in Shelby, 1954.
JAKE KISER: Jake Kiser, born in Shelby, 1929.
BILL LYNN: Bill Lynn, born in Kings Mountain, 1920.
JH: Now, because I was playing with the microphone I need to go around one more time and just get first names.
CFL: Carl.
SS: Steve
EP: Ed.
BS: Bill.
JK: Jake.
BL: Bill.
CFL: Bill Lynn--see, you%u2019ve got two Bills.
JH: Uh-huh.
BS: She figured that out. [laughter].
CFL: Young Bill and old Bill, if you want to put it that way.
BS: Ooh, I like that young Bill part. Yeah, I appreciate that.
JH: And this is young Bill?
BS: That%u2019s right.
CFL: Yeah, that%u2019s young Bill.
JH: That%u2019s what I thought.
EP: This Bill is in the Cleveland County Hall of Fame for coaching the youth football and baseball out here at the park.
CFL: And Jake and I are pending [laughter].
JH: Are what?
CFL: Pending for the Hall of Fame.
JH: [laughed] CFL: They won%u2019t let us in because he votes against us, and he votes against us, and that%u2019s the gospel.
JH: Now, can we talk about the %u201Clint-head%u201D team?
CFL: Yes, m%u2019am. What would you like to know?
JH: Just to talk a little bit about what was the name of the team, what mill village it came out of?
CFL: Now you and you go along with me now. It was the Dover-Ora team. It was in the old Textile League. What was the name of the league? It was the old Textile League, wasn%u2019t it?
BL: Oh, yeah--it was the Cotton League.
CFL: The teams?
BL: Western Cotton League.
CFL: The Cotton League, that%u2019s what it was, the Cotton League.
EP: Every textile mill in this area had a baseball team.
CFL: That%u2019s correct.
JH: I didn%u2019t know that.
EP: And most of them had a baseball field.
JH: Really?
CFL: Well, that%u2019s when we had textile mills in the town. All right, there was Dover-Ora, Shelby Mill, Lawndale, Northbrook Number One%u2026
JH: %u2026Wasn%u2019t Number One in?...
CFL: %u2026Northbrook, just Northbrook Number One%u2026
JH: %u2026Mmm%u2026
JK: %u2026Waco%u2026
CFL: Waco, and%u2026
BL: %u2026Zion%u2026
CFL: %u2026Zion, Zion had a team. And what was that team way back up in the hills where he was born? What was that, Hollis?
BL: Hollis? Yeah.
CFL: Hollis.
BL: Belwood--Belwood had a team in it at one time. All of them wasn%u2019t in at the same time.
JH: Um-hmm.
CFL: They wasn%u2019t all necessarily mill teams, but they were all from in this section.
BL: Dover--Dover-Ora, Shelby Mill, Lawndale--. Shelby Mill and Lawndale was in it every year, but we had different ones come in besides that.
JH: Now you said that most of the mill villages had baseball%u2026
CFL: %u2026That%u2019s right%u2026
JH: %u2026fields, right?
CFL: Lily Mill had one but they never had a--they had a baseball team but it was a lot earlier than what we had.
JH: Do you remember when the first baseball team started out of the mills? When did the league start?
JK: Ella Mill was the first--one of the first ones.
CFL: And, yeah, Ella Mill, that was probably back in the nineteen and twenties.
JK: That was back when dad played.
CFL: I would guess in the twenties, wouldn%u2019t you?
JK: Yeah, I%u2019d say it was.
CFL: Yeah, it would have to be %u2018cause we played in the late thirties. They probably started back in the early%u2026
BL: ...No, we played in the late forties.
JK: Oh, I%u2019d say it was earlier than that.
BL: %u2026We played in the late forties.
CFL: Not the late--yeah, the late forties. Yeah, that%u2019s right. You%u2019ll have to excuse me.
BL: After the war, we organized%u2026
CFL: %u2026It was after the war%u2026
BL: %u2026we played all those years and it was organized in 1946.
CFL: And there were no textile teams during the war years because the men were off fighting--most of the men.
EP: Yeah, these two guys--all three of them were in World War II.
JK: No, they were in the war. I wasn%u2019t%u2026
CFL: %u2026but the baseball team started%u2026
JK: %u2026I was in the service in forty-six%u2026
BL: %u20261946%u2026
JK: %u2026forty-seven.
CFL: Yeah, but they started back in the twenties, back in the middle twenties %u2018cause my dad played in some of them leagues.
BL: ( ) talking about the Ella Mill and that was in the thirties.
CFL: Yeah, in the thirties, so it started really in the middle twenties and thirties--when they started. Every team--there was no television, or most homes didn%u2019t have television back then.
EP: They had the Legion thing here last week and this week, and I think last week in the paper they had a 1938 Legion team and that was the first one in this area%u2026
JH: %u2026Uh-huh, uh-huh%u2026
EP: %u2026the first Legion team.
CFL: And I tried out for it, but I didn%u2019t make it [others laughed].
BL: I don%u2019t remember which one was first--old Dr. Jarrett%u2026
EP: %u2026The one that Dr. Jarrett had. That was thirty-eight.
BL: Dr. Jarrett used to run it.
CFL: I tried out for that team. Hal Dedmon played on it, I remember.
JH: Um-hmm, yeah.
CFL: Hal Dedmon played on it, yeah. Fact of the matter, Hal played on about every team.
JK: Lawrence Patterson played.
CFL: Yeah, and they had--yeah, back in the--back in that--we had several major leaguers that--Tom Wright played with the old Shelby Mill. Leonard Morrison and Bud Hardin, they played as high as Triple-A baseball.
BL: Tom was a major leaguer.
CFL: Tom was a major leaguer with Boston.
JH: And what was his last name?
CFL: Wright.
JH: W--?
CFL: W-R-I-G-H-T.
EP: They%u2019re all up there in the Hall of Fame. I%u2019ll take you up there and show them to you in a minute.
CFL: Yeah, they%u2019re in the Shelby Hall of Cleveland County.
BL: Roger McKee.
CFL: Roger McKee
BL: He played with us one or two years over at the Ora Mill.
EP: Yeah, all four of them are still living.
JH: Um-hmm.
CFL: And their pictures is up--he%u2019ll show you their pictures. He%u2019ll show you everybody%u2019s picture but Jake and mine [others laughed].
JH: Why?
CFL: He%u2019ll show you everybody%u2019s picture but Jake%u2026
JH: %u2026But why aren%u2019t you in them?
CFL: They won%u2019t let us.
JH: [Laughed] So I understand that sports is kind of big in Shelby--in this area?
EP: Big, yeah.
JH: Um-hmm, um-hmm.
CFL: Yes, they--I%u2019m not connected with them anymore; I%u2019m too old. They won%u2019t let me.
JH: [laughed] Did you go to the games last week?
CFL: No, m%u2019am.
JH: No?
CFL: I didn%u2019t have a ticket.
JH: Were those hard to come by?
CFL: No, but you had to buy %u2018em [others laughed]. Ed wouldn%u2019t give me one.
JH: Now Ed, I know you used to coach, right?
EP: I coached for several years, yes%u2026
CFL: %u2026Wait a minute%u2026
EP: %u2026Crest High School.
CFL: Ed used to coach--always take your hat off when you mention Ed.
JH: Because you produced some pretty remarkable athletes out of that.
EP: I had a couple very nice athletes, yes.
JH: Now that was Crest High School that you coached?
EP: Crest High School was a consolidated school of the southwestern part of Cleveland County.
JH: Um-hmm.
EP: Started in 1968.
JK: The gym is named after him.
CFL: Who?
JK: The gym is named after Ed.
CFL: Jim who? [others laughed] Well, he did coach David Thompson now. Have you heard of David Thompson?
JH: I have.
CFL: The coach--coach coached David.
JH: Um-hmm.
EP: A lot of this goes back all--there was at one time twelve little, small high schools throughout the county--plus Shelby and Kings Mountain--white. Then there were five, six little, small black schools in the county and you had several--when did--? What%u2019s his name that went to Minnesota?
SEVERAL: Bobby Bell.
EP: Bobby Bell. They had three guys that came out of the old Cleveland School--black school in Shelby, that went on to play pro football.
CFL: That%u2019s right, %u2018cause Bobby would have--they put him up in there %u2018cause he was a black man. That%u2019s why he had to go up there and play. They didn%u2019t have %u2018em down at the local%u2026
BS: Who were the other two? Was Mel Phillips one?
EP: Mel Phillips played for the%u2026
SEVERAL: Forty-Niners.
EP: Forty-Niners.
JH: Oh, really? That%u2019s my team.
EP: Then there was one more that played for somebody. I can%u2019t remember which one it was. They had three, and all three of those guys played on the same team over at the black school in Shelby--Cleveland School.
JH: It%u2019s called Cleveland School?
BL: Cleveland High, wasn%u2019t it?
SEVERAL: Cleveland High.
CFL: That%u2019s correct.
BS: Bobby Bell played for the Kansas City Chiefs.
EP: The local--the local high school--white high school coach who played at the University of North Carolina got his coach down there at the University of North Carolina to contact the Minnesota University coach to get Bobby a scholarship there. He went to Minnesota and then signed with Kansas City for pro football.
JH: Um-hmm. Great. So what other athletes came out of this area that went on to national--?
BL: A whole lot. Yeah.
JH: A lot?
BL: A lot of athletes.
JH: Um-hmm.
BL: We had several major league ball players. Old Hardin, what was his--?
CFL: Bud Hardin.
BL: Hugh Hardin.
CFL: Bud Hardin.
BL: Hugh Hardin.
EP: Yeah, Hugh.
BL: Hugh played with Detroit.
EP: Yeah.
BL: Hugh%u2019s dead now. He played Little League ball for the Lions Club.
EP: He played high school ball for me.
BL: Huh?
EP: He played high school ball for me.
BL: He played Little League--he played with the Detroit Tigers, didn%u2019t he?
EP: Right.
BS: Did you coach anything other than basketball?
EP: Coached baseball, girls basketball%u2026
CFL: %u2026Baseball%u2026
EP: %u2026cross country, track%u2026
CFL: %u2026Mostly--mostly girl teams is what Ed coached.
BS: You%u2019re multi-talented then, aren%u2019t you?
EP: I%u2019m quite faceted [others laughed].
BS: Ooh, did you get that word?
CFL: What did you say?
EP: I said, %u201CI%u2019m multi-faceted.%u201D Hello?
CFL: Would you mind to elucidate?
EP: No [laughed].
CFL: You have to be careful here, using too many big words, %u2018cause most of us don%u2019t know what they mean.
EP: But you had old George Adams also played at Kings Mountain High School and Gardner-Webb and went on to play pro basketball with somebody out in California, but I can%u2019t remember which team.
CFL: I remember his name, yeah. Ed remembers more of it than we do. He%u2019s a little bit younger than we are. Ed%u2019s seventy-five.
EP: This Byers kid, Bam-Bam Byers, the Greco wrestler in the Olympics, wrestled at Kings Mountain High School and was a state champion in North Carolina in his weight division.
JH: Byers? B-Y%u2026
EP: %u2026Byers--Bam-Bam Byers. I don%u2019t know what his first name is but he wrestled at Kings Mountain High School.
BL: We had, if you remember, we had a heavyweight fighter, boxing champion from Cleveland County.
CFL: That%u2019s correct. Who is it?
EP: He was just born here.
CFL: He was born here?
BL: Born in Waco.
EP: Yeah, but he didn%u2019t live here but about a month and a half, two months. Then they moved to New York.
JH: Oh, so not raised here.
CFL: What was his name?
JK: Floyd Patterson.
EP: Gone blank again.
CFL: Floyd Patterson.
EP: Floyd Patterson, yeah, Floyd Patterson.
BL: Floyd Patterson, yeah.
CFL: See, that%u2019s our problem. We can%u2019t remember names.
BS: Then you had Billy Champion.
EP: Billy Champion played baseball with Philadelphia.
JH: I%u2019m sorry, which name was that?
EP: Billy Champion. My understanding, I%u2019ve been told, Roger McKee, who we mentioned a while ago, when he played with the..
CFL: %u2026Phillies%u2026
BL: %u2026Philadelphia%u2026
EP: Phillies, Phillies--He was the youngest player to start a game in the major leagues. Is that right? I heard that%u2026
CFL: %u2026No, there was one other man%u2026
BL: %u2026I don%u2019t know that he was the youngest%u2026
CFL: There was one other man who was younger than Roger, but I believe he was%u2026
BL: %u2026He played with Cincinnati.
CFL: Yeah, and I can%u2019t remember his name.
BL: I can%u2019t remember his name but he was something. He was about fifteen to sixteen years old when--.
CFL: Yeah, just call him %u201CJoe.%u201D
EP: And David Thompson, when he signed a pro contract, his was the highest professional athlete contract at that time. Seven hundred-fifty thousand dollars, compared to the millions that they get today.
JH: And that would have been in the early seventies, right?
EP: That was in 1975.
CFL: David was probably, seriously speaking, one of the better basketball players.
EP: Yeah. He was the highest paid professional athlete at that time.
JH: Um-hmm.
BS: Is that all pro sports or just basketball?
EP: All pro sports.
BS: Really, I didn%u2019t know%u2026
EP: %u2026In the United States.
BS: In the United States. I didn%u2019t know that.
JH: Is it something in the water? What produces--?
CFL: Here?
JH: What do you think, yeah?
EP: And we had Fluffy Watts--played professional football with the Washington Redskins.
CFL: Well, what it was%u2026
BL: %u2026Yep%u2026
CFL: %u2026mainly because%u2026
BL: ...Went to Shelby High School up here--Fluffy Watts%u2026
CFL: %u2026it was all textile--it was a textile town; they had nothing else to do. You had sports and that was it. In the wintertime you played amateur sports, you know, down on the ball fields, summertime you played baseball. We didn%u2019t play sissy games like tennis or basketball, though [others laughed].
JH: Golf?
CFL: There was only one golf%u2026
JH: %u2026Calling it a sissy game?
CFL: What?
JH: Golf.
CFL: No.
BL: We didn%u2019t play soccer either.
CFL: We played--you didn%u2019t play golf for this reason: only golf was played at the Country Club, and lint-heads couldn%u2019t afford the Country Club. Only these people that owned the mills were at the--.
EP: All the lint-heads came out here when this course opened in 1948 because most of the mills--correct me Steve--most of the mills paid their green fees.
SS: Um-hmm.
JH: Oh, really?
EP: They let them play out here.
BL: They didn%u2019t pay our green fees when they opened up; we paid our own. It wasn%u2019t but fifty cents but we paid it.
EP: OK.
CFL: Fifty cents was a lot more than we could afford.
BL: The longer, over in the years, now it was Dover picked up--paid for our green fees.
JK: We had a golf league.
EP: Yeah, you had a golf league. They had a basketball league also.
JH: Really?
EP: Men and women.
JH: Men and women? When did that start?
EP: I don%u2019t know when it--. I know when I was--.
JK: I know it was back in the sixties.
CFL: And, I might add that Steve%u2019s daddy was the first man here to really promote golf--Stan Sherman. He promoted golf for all the people like Jake and me--or Jake was too young--Bill and me and Ed--he%u2019s old enough.
EP: You had a--Pete Webb was a professional golfer.
CFL: He was a professional golfer from the Country Club. That%u2019s right, but Stan is the man who really promoted it for people. We sort of aged out on the textile leagues and we didn%u2019t have anything else to do, so we played golf--we started playing golf.
SS: He started to work here in the mid to late fifties. Is that correct?
EP: I think that%u2019s right, yeah.
CFL: And in my opinion, did more to promote it for the amateurs like us than anybody.
BS: Teacher and promoter, I guess.
CFL: He%u2019s also in the Hall of Fame. He was put in the Hall of Fame last year, Stan was.
BS: A lot of people would tell me about getting started playing golf and%u2026
CFL: %u2026He did%u2026
BS: %u2026And he taught them how to get started--the basics and that kind of thing.
CFL: He tried to cure me of a shank one time and we--the end result was that we both started shanking! [everybody laughed] You think that%u2019s a joke but it%u2019s the truth! He told me one day, %u201CI%u2019ll help you with that, Socks.%u201D He called me %u201CSocks%u201D all the time. We%u2019d go down on the first tee at River Band and start hitting golf balls. I was so bad at it that one time he tried to help me and he shanked it, too. I never will forget that.
BS: He never gave you another lesson, did he?
CFL: He never gave me another lesson [laughter].
EP: We also had Buck Archer, who died just recently that was a tennis player that ranked very highly all through his years, on up into the eighties.
CFL: And Jim Corn was a--just recently elected to the North Carolina Sports Hall of Fame as a tennis man.
JH: Oh.
BS: Yeah, a lot of good tennis players came from Cleveland County.
CFL: Ed plays tennis.
BS: Well, good tennis players. I%u2019m not talking about Ed.
CFL: Well, good. I%u2019m sorry [laughter]. You know, we pick on Ed.
EP: I play tennis about like you play golf.
CFL: Yeah, poorly [laughter]. We pick on Ed. Don%u2019t pay no attention to that.
SS: Let%u2019s see, who did we have on the circuit from the tennis? Jim Corn?
EP: Jim Corn, yeah.
CFL: Buck Archer.
SS: Tim Wilkison.
EP: Tim Wilkison, yeah, Tim Wilkison played here.
SS: Buck Archer.
EP: What was that gal that taught tennis last summer? Koenig--Kristin Koenig played at Kings Mountain High School and was on the tennis circuit for a while.
JH: Koenig?
EP: Koenig. K-O-E-N-I-G, I think.
CFL: And there was one lady golfer from the Country Club that played golf, Millie Keeter.
EP: Millie Keeter, yeah.
CFL: Millie was a good golfer.
BS: I had coffee with her this morning.
SS: She played on the tour for several years.
BS: LPGA.
CFL: Millie was a good golfer.
JH: And how do you spell her last name?
CFL: Keeter.
BL: As in Keeter Ford.
CFL: You see, if you stir these old minds up, they remember a whole lot of stuff, but you got to give %u2018em a jump start [laughter].
JH: I%u2019m curious, going back to the mill leagues--are there any games particularly that stand out because of rivalry, because of just--that people still talk about?
CFL: Well, the most intense rivalry we had was with Shelby Mill. Now, we had a lot of games with them and it was cheek-to-cheek or eyeball-to-eyeball, but at the end of the day when the game was over that%u2019s when we all went to the Shelby Cafe.
BL: The Shelby Caf? and George Johnson%u2019s.
CFL: Well, wherever.
BL: George Johnson%u2019s. Pool hall!
CFL: After it was over it was just a game, you see. After it was over we would go down and quaff a few beers between us, and laugh and talk about it, but we never did get into any fights, I don%u2019t think. If I do, I don%u2019t remember. I wasn%u2019t big enough to fight, or Jake either. Me and Jake wouldn%u2019t fight.
BL: They run for help.
CFL: We were not only too small but we were just a little bit cowardly.
BS: If you happen to be the best mill team in Cleveland County, what did that accomplish for you? What did you--did you have a trophy--did you have--?
CFL: Yeah, there was a trophy.
JK: We won trophies every year.
JH: That was the same trophy that got passed around or were there new trophies every year?
CFL: No, no. It was a different one.
JK: You just keep it.
CFL: We had a good team, really, %u2018cause I had a bunch--I was manager. I had a bunch of world champion American Legion boys that played on my team, in addition to Jake and Bill. I had Lloyd Page, Harvey Bowen and who else did I have?
BL: Billy Macomson.
CFL: Bill Macomson.
BL: Bill Weaver.
CFL: Tony Izzi, Bill Weaver.
EP: They all played on that 1945 Legion team that won the Little World Series.
JH: Oh, they did?
BL: They didn%u2019t all play with us at the same time.
CFL: No, off and on at different times.
BL: Now, Lloyd Page played most of the time.
CFL: Lloyd played, yeah.
BL: The rest of them played maybe one year and--.
JK: Bobby Lane played.
BL: Country McKee played with us--managed us one year after he (Carl Lynn) left. That%u2019s when we run him off.
CFL: They fired me.
BL: They had to run the manager off every once in a while because--, then Roger come in and managed one year--one or two years, I don%u2019t know.
CFL: Admission was free to the games, and there was always a hundred or so, or two maybe. There were some big crowds, oh it was particularly Shelby Mill. When we played there, it was just rings all around the ball field. We didn%u2019t have any stands, you know you just stood or sat wherever you could. That%u2019s what it was.
EP: I don%u2019t remember when it started, but in the fifties, I know most of the mills had women%u2019s fast pitch softball, too.
JH: Oh, really?
CFL: That%u2019s right. Mildred Hubbard was--was she a pitcher? What was Mildred?
BL: No, she was--she played first base.
CFL: She could hit the hound out of it.
EP: They also had women%u2019s basketball, along with the men.
BL: Marilyn Ferree was our pitcher.
CFL: Marilyn Ferree, that%u2019s right. Yeah, Mildred was a good hitter. I remember that.
EP: And at one time, I know I remember when I was in high school, some of the mills had a flag six-man football team, didn%u2019t they?
BL: Yeah.
EP: Had a flag six-man football team.
BL: Touch or tag--they called it %u201Ctag,%u201D but I played on that one. The way they tagged me pretty hard a few times. I didn%u2019t play but a game or two. Bill Wheelwright killed me.
CFL: Touch football--tag, you know, tag?...
JH: %u2026Um-hmm.
CFL: %u2026And the play%u2019s dead. But the way they tagged you, like he said, %u201CBoom!%u201D Big old Ralph Davis, two hundred and twenty pounder.
JH: Six feet-six tall.
EP: Talking about any ball games, any time Kings Mountain and Shelby played, it was called the %u201CBattle of Buffalo Creek.%u201D
JH: The Battle of Buffalo Creek?
EP: The Battle of Buffalo Creek.
CFL: It still is, most of the time.
BL: The Battle of Buffalo Creek.
JH: Is that because Buffalo Creek runs through--divides?
EP: Between the two.
CFL: And because Shelby and Kings Mountain don%u2019t like each other, in sports, that is. We love %u2018em as brothers and sisters, particularly sisters, but not the brothers.
BS: Was it you that was trying to stir up trouble when you told somebody from Kings Mountain they was going to re-name the high school %u201CEast Shelby?%u201D [laughter] EP: That%u2019s what he almost started a fight out here.
BS: There was almost a--.
CFL: That%u2019s back when they were talking about merging the schools with just one central location and Kings Mountain would just be a little bit of a part of it. I told this fellow one day--he came in and said he was from Kings Mountain. I said, %u201CThere is no Kings Mountain.%u201D He said, %u201CWhat do you mean, there%u2019s no Kings Mountain?%u201D I said, %u201CSince it%u2019s merged, it is now East Shelby.%u201D He said, %u201CWell, if you don%u2019t want to come through Kings Mountain, go through some other way.%u201D I said, %u201CI just told you there is no Kings Mountain.%u201D
He got real upset [laughter].
JH: Well, I am curious about the management and the owners. Did they ever participate in the games?
CFL: No. Not at the Dover-Ora. They bought all the supplies.
JH: Um-hmm.
CFL: No, they were--they were too old to be playing baseball. You know, they were old. We called them old people. They were probably in their forties. Back then, to us, forty was old.
JH: So the managers and supervisors didn%u2019t--?
CFL: No, huh-uh. We were on our own. Frank Love, Jr. was the one who was in charge%u2026
BL: %u2026He was the personnel manager%u2026
CFL: %u2026Personnel manager was Frank Love, Jr. at the Dover and he purchased, or paid for, or made arrangements to buy all the baseballs, the bats%u2026
BL: %u2026Uniforms%u2026
CFL: %u2026Uniforms--we didn%u2019t have to supply them.
JH: So did all of the teams have uniforms?
CFL: Yes, m%u2019am.
BL: Oh, yeah.
CFL: All of %u2018em.
JH: Wow.
CFL: And the biggest regret that I have is we never made our picture. We never had our team picture made.
JH: Oh, really.
CFL: Why, we don%u2019t know. We weren%u2019t that homely. You know, back then we were a lot younger. We probably looked like him--nothing to brag on, but you know.
JH: Well, you were probably too busy playing and drinking.
CFL: We didn%u2019t drink that much, really. I%u2019m only teasing about that. We%u2019d quaff a few.
BL: There%u2019s one trophy that used to sit in the trophy case over there. You know where the trophy case is? The trophy case in there had all our names on it, but I don%u2019t know what ever happened to that!
CFL: Why we never got a picture made, I%u2019ve got no earthly idea.
EP: They were probably afraid you%u2019d break the camera.
CFL: We couldn%u2019t get %u2018em all together, probably.
BL: Well, we got %u2018em all together at the ball ground.
CFL: Well, we should have and we didn%u2019t, you know, and it%u2019s--I%u2019ve always regretted it.
BL: Nobody thought of it.
CFL: I%u2019d liked to have had a photo of our boys.
EP: Also, changing the subject a little bit from baseball, but we had the fairground out there--they used to have NASCAR races on the dirt track.
JH: Really?
EP: Used to be a half-mile dirt track and NASCAR--Roby Combs was a NASCAR official, flagman, or whatever, and they would have races out there at the fair and also during the year on the dirt track.
BS: Fireball Roberts was out there one time.
EP: Fireball Roberts raced out there, yeah.
CFL: Remember Fireball Roberts?
BS: And then Ned Jarrett, maybe?
CFL: Fireball was killed in a crash. Didn%u2019t his car catch on fire?
BL: Burned up.
CFL: He got burned up. That%u2019s right.
EP: They even had, I remember at the fair, one or two years they had the little Indy--Indianapolis cars raced out there.
BL: They used to have them on Saturday for a long time--the Indianapolis type.
CFL: That%u2019s correct.
BL: All they done was get out there and follow one another around the track. Had the racing at three o%u2019clock. We got over there once--one day to see the races at eleven o%u2019clock and the race didn%u2019t start until three and the dadgum grandstands was full and the bleachers full. The race didn%u2019t start for five hours, but everybody was already there! [laughter] I%u2019ve never been so tired in all my life.
CFL: Back in those days, you didn%u2019t have television and you didn%u2019t have televised sports like it is now. People had nowhere to go except--something like that was a big deal. That was the way it was with baseball--nowhere else to go--some of us had radios. None of us had telephones, and none of us had cell phones.
EP: We also have a lot of rodeoing in here and several of the high school kids have gone to--gone out to the Midwest and West on scholarships.
JH: Oh, really?
EP: The Farrington boy--Colt Farrington went out there, I know, and two or three more from around here. I can%u2019t name %u2018em but they%u2019ve gone out west to colleges that had rodeos and got scholarships. I had one of my best baseball catchers one year quit playing baseball to get into rodeo, Bud Blanton.
JH: Really?
CFL: Where did they practice to get into rodeo?
EP: Wherever they could find a bull and a horse and a rope.
CFL: Brave people. Would you attack a bull? I%u2019d run.
JH: Yeah, you sure wouldn%u2019t. So what about social centers when you weren%u2019t playing ball?
CFL: Social centers?
JH: Um-hmm. Well, you talked about the pool hall.
CFL: Yeah, the pool hall, Johnson%u2019s Pool Hall, the Shelby Caf? or the Wigwam. The Wigwam was a pool hall where you shot pool.
BL: Right across the street in front of George Johnson%u2019s.
CFL: It was right across the street.
BL: George Johnson was a ( ) too.
EP: On the corner there where the Sub Station, or whatever it is, is now.
CFL: That%u2019s where the social center was, or the Owl Soda Shop. That%u2019s where the--.
JK: Messick%u2019s was where I was.
BL: That%u2019s where everybody went.
CFL: Well, Owl%u2019s was up there first, I believe. Wasn%u2019t it Owl%u2019s Soda Shop?
JK: And then Messick%u2019s was next.
CFL: Yeah, then Messicks. That was up there on the corner.
JH: How is Messick%u2019s spelled?
CFL: M-E-S-S-I-C-K-S.
BL: The Owl Soda Shop, Messick%u2019s and two pool halls. They%u2019d hang around the Shelby Caf?, too--.
EP: That was the hangout. Yeah, that%u2019s where all the athletes and high school kids went after ball games--Messick%u2019s.
JH: To Messick%u2019s?
CFL: Messick%u2019s. That%u2019s correct.
BL: That was after our time because we%u2019d done quit going there so much. The rougher element had done stopped going to that place.
EP: That was after they quit selling beer. You had beer and alcohol before and during the war, but after the war, they couldn%u2019t have it.
BL: Nineteen forty-eight.
CFL: They went dry.
BL: I was thirsty that year [laughed]. Had to go out of town to get a beer.
CFL: There%u2019s an expert on it. My brother--he%u2019s my brother incidentally--my brother is an expert on the various brands of beer [laughter].
JH: What%u2019s the regional favorite? What%u2019s the regional favorite for beer?
CFL: Regional favorite?
BL: probably Pabst Blue Ribbon.
CFL: No, Bud Light.
BL: No, Budweiser [laughter].
CFL: You see, back then, as well as I remember there was no light beer. You either drank a Bud, Miller, or Schlitz. That was the three main brands. Then you had the off-brands.
BL: This sissy generation come along--they started making Bud Light and Miller Lite, stuff like that.
CFL: And the cheaper beer that they made out%u2026
BL: %u2026what we call %u201Cladies%u2019 beer.%u201D [laughter] CFL: They drank Atlantic Ale and Beer. %u201CFull of Good Cheer%u201D was the motto.
JH: Uh-huh.
CFL: And that was made out of Charlotte and it was a little bit cheaper.
BL: %u201CAtlantic Ale and Beer, Full of Good Cheer.%u201D [he chuckled] CFL: Back during the war years, it was rationed. Everything was rationed. Everybody that drank beer, mostly civilians--it would be like Ed and these boys now--they knew when the beer truck would come into town, and they would follow the beer truck from station to station to get a beer [laughter]. Thought I%u2019d forgotten that, didn%u2019t you, Ed?
EP: I didn%u2019t do that. I followed the ice truck around to get a bucket of ice.
CFL: But I do know that is true. They%u2019d say, %u201CThe beer truck is coming, the beer truck%u2019s coming!%u201D They%u2019d go to the Wigwam or down to George Johnson%u2019s.
BL: That was Atlantic Ale and Beer. They%u2019d kind of everybody follow it down to George Johnson%u2019s. He sold most of the Atlantic ale and beer.
CFL: That%u2019s right.
BL: After they started rationing, me and my brother and another guy--we knew where they sold the beer and what time they sold it. So you went--they rationed it--they wouldn%u2019t let you have but three bottles, so we%u2019d go to every place in that hour--we%u2019d get our three bottles [laughter].
CFL: That%u2019s true; I know what you think--them old boys was sots, drinking all that beer, but actually, we have reformed. We%u2019re now deacons in the Baptist Church [laughter].
JH: Uh-huh.
BL: Baptist Church--and he%u2019s a Methodist! [laughter] He%u2019s after these Baptists.
CFL: [Laughed as he spoke] You can%u2019t always believe everything we say. You%u2019re supposed to put the light touch to it.
JH: Well, as a Methodist then, growing up, you were allowed to dance?
CFL: I am an excellent dancer. If I had two good legs, I%u2019d demonstrate it to you. We%u2019d dance, but I can%u2019t dance anymore.
JH: So were there dances?
CFL: Yes.
JH: Let%u2019s talk about courting and--. Where did you take the--where did you take girl friends?
CFL: Well, my girl--[he laughed]--are you sure you want to know?
JH: Remember, you%u2019re on the record so--[laughed].
EP: You went to the movies and then you went to Messick%u2019s.
BL: You could sing that song to her.
EP: You rode the bus or you rode a bicycle.
CFL: After I grew up--you%u2019re talking about when I could drive a car--well, we went to--after we started dancing -- after I got married, we would go to the Elk%u2019s Lodge, the Moose Lodge or the VFW. That was the war and after, but we went for dancing. Any other place?
BL: That was after the war.
CFL: Huh? Yeah.
BS: Amvets.
EP: Sometimes in the fifties, I don%u2019t remember when, Bill Bailey started a teen club out here for the young people at the park and that%u2019s where most of the young people--high school kids went.
JH: Oh, the teen club. Oh, you know I%u2019ve heard about the teen club. And where was that? They weren%u2019t sure where it was located--the person who brought it up. Was it at the park?
CFL: Wasn%u2019t it out here at the park?
EP: Out here in this gym in this park, yeah.
CFL: In this gym behind you. Yeah.
JH: Oh, OK. Yeah.
BS: Well, then it moved from there over to behind Jackson%u2019s Cafeteria over there.
EP: I don%u2019t remember that. I wasn%u2019t--. I was half grown up.
BS: That was later on. You weren%u2019t a teen anymore.
SS: The last few years it was in the scout hut, the Girl Scout hut here.
BS: Really?
EP: That%u2019s right. I remember that.
BS: I didn%u2019t know that.
SS: The Girl Scout hut here.
EP: That%u2019s right. I remember that.
CFL: See, that%u2019s past my time. I don%u2019t remember that.
SS: They still had that going when I started to work%u2026
CFL: %u2026You%u2019ve got to get the youngsters to tell you that%u2026
SS: %u2026in %u201985.
EP: But a lot of--you go back to that period of time, too--Ollie Moore and a couple other guys had fish places on the creek and rivers. That%u2019s where Earl Scruggs and Don Gibson both got their start, playing in those places--at fish camps.
JH: The fish camps?
EP: Ollie Moore had one on the river over there at Boiling Springs%u2026
CFL: %u2026Ollie Moore Fish Camp%u2026
EP: %u2026and they%u2019d have square dancing and have that band in there. This was just on the weekends.
CFL: And George Johnson.
EP: Not George Johnson.
BL: Jess Johnson had one over on Buffalo Creek.
CFL: Jess Johnson%u2019s Fish Camp, that%u2019s Buffalo Fish Camp now.
BL: It%u2019s Satterfield%u2019s now. It%u2019s not open but it--. I%u2019m satisfied you passed that place down there that says %u201CSatterfield%u2019s?%u201D That%u2019s where Jess Johnson%u2019s Fish Camp was.
JH: So they would--they would have live music down there on weekends?
CFL: Yes, they%u2019d have%u2026
JH: %u2026They%u2019d have live music there on weekends?
BL: They don%u2019t have anything now.
CFL: No, back then.
JH: But back then, like when Earl Scruggs%u2026
CFL: Well, they would have some kind of music.
BL: They just had a fish camp and you went there every day of the week, I guess. I don%u2019t know what about their music and stuff like that back then.
CFL: Now, they had some great music at Ollie Moore%u2019s, I know. We had ( ) because Don Gibson was down there one time when we were down there.
JH: So where else were people playing--playing music?
CFL: What%u2019s this place up above Polkville? What%u2019s that fish camp up there?
EP: Brackett%u2019s Cedar Park.
CFL: Brackett%u2019s Cedar Park--didn%u2019t they have dances up there?
EP: Yeah, they had dances and bands up there--country bands.
CFL: Brackett%u2019s Cedar Park. That%u2019s right.
BL: Probably still do. I don%u2019t know.
BS: Wasn%u2019t square dancing a big deal at one time?
EP: Yeah. We--what%u2019s that guy%u2019s name that had it out here?
BS: Lewis Calhoun.
EP: Lewis Calhoun started square dancing out here at the park. That was a big thing.
JH: Really?
CFL: That%u2019s where I really learned to dance%u2026
BS: %u2026It was called %u201CThe Wagon Wheelers.%u201D
CFL: %u2026I mean really dance. I just went through the motions everywhere else, but my wife and I learned to dance from Lewis Calhoun. Well, she could dance--.
BL: Where they had the old square dance was down here on Carolina Fruit place. Do you know where that is?
CFL: Over there at the Farmer%u2019s Market.
BL: Do you know where the Farmer%u2019s Market is? [Several spoke simultaneously] EP: Yeah, they used to have some down there. That%u2019s right. I forgot about that.
CFL: That building right over where the Farmer%u2019s Market is now on the railroad track. That%u2019s where they had dances.
JH: Uh-huh.
CFL: Yeah, they had--I don%u2019t know when it started. I was too little then. I don%u2019t remember all that stuff.
BL: Me and Carl sold refreshments down there--Coca-Cola chasers.
CFL: Yeah, we sold drinks.
JH: Oh, really? Now where is this?
CFL: That%u2019s where we%u2019re talking about--right above the%u2026
JH: %u2026Farmer%u2019s Market?...
CFL: The Farmer%u2019s Market--on top or that.
BL: The Farmer%u2019s Market--it the place that used to be Carolina Fruit there.
EP: At the railroad track.
JH: Carolina Fruit?
BL: Carolina Fruit was run downstairs.
JH: Oh.
CFL: The Woodmen or the Redmen or somebody sponsored it.
BL: Redmen.
CFL: Redmen. Yeah, %u2018cause my dad--.
BL: Redmen sponsored it. My daddy and a couple of older fellows run it. Old Bill Paris, he done the calling.
CFL: That%u2019s right. They had square dancing.
BL: I can still see that big .45 pistol hanging out of his coat pocket. That was a good place to get [he paused and chuckled] get in Dutch and into the fisticuffs.
CFL: But they didn%u2019t sell alcohol. That was illegal.
JH: Um-hmm.
CFL: They might have had it there but it wasn%u2019t sold.
BL: I was about fourteen years old and he was about twelve (referring to his brother, Carl).
CFL: That%u2019s right.
BL: We worked down there every Saturday night.
JH: So, Bill Par--the caller, Bill Paris, P-A-R-I-S?
CFL: P -A-R-I-S, Paris. Yeah.
JH: Uh-huh, with a .45 pistol hanging from his coat.
CFL: That%u2019s correct.
JH: [laughed] EP: We also had a couple of skating rinks where around where people could go--and bowling alleys. We had a bowling alley down in the basement up there. You had a bowling alley out here. Where else did they have to bowl? You bowled. Where else did they have a bowling alley?
BL: Do what?
EP: You bowled. Where else were there bowling alleys? You had the Park and where else?
BL: Out yonder at--where the Chrysler--right above where the Chrysler place is now--in Shelby.
CFL: On 74 (highway).
EP: And you had bowling leagues. Yeah, the mills had teams and they had bowling leagues.
JH: Oh, really?
BL: Used to be a big place out there.
EP: Businesses, not only mills but the businesses.
BL: Been closed down for I don%u2019t know how long.
EP: And the high schools had--later on, they had a bowling league to get the high school kids.
JH: When you said that Redmen ran the place above the Carolina Fruit. Are you referring to a company or what%u2019s Redmen?
CFL: No, it was a fraternity. A Redmen? I can%u2019t remember.
BL: Redmen--it%u2019s just like Moose or%u2026
CFL: %u2026Sort of like the Woodmen%u2026
BL: Woodmen, Moose%u2026
JH: %u2026Oh, uh-huh.
BL: %u2026and Redmen.
CFL: I can%u2019t remember what it was.
BL: That%u2019s what it was.
CFL: What was it, Jake?
JK: We had what you call Red Shields.
CFL: No, it wasn%u2019t Red Shield.
EP: It wasn%u2019t Red Shield, huh-uh.
BL: No, huh-uh, it was a Red--it was a Redmen%u2019s Club.
JK: That was before my time.
BL: Poker club just like the rest of %u2018em.
JK: I don%u2019t know.
JH: What%u2019s red shoe?
CFL: Huh?
JH: He said red shoes?
CFL: Red Shield.
JH: Oh, Red Shields--that%u2019s another group?
CFL: Uh-huh.
JL: Redmen, I think.
JK: They can tell you about that. I don%u2019t know nothing about it.
SS: Sounds like gangs to me.
JK: These fellows are older than I am.
CFL: You see, you can jog these old men%u2019s minds once in a while, and the computer comes out in %u2018em. You press the button.
BL: Well, you remember that for a long time they had fights down there where they had the dance hall.
CFL: That%u2019s right.
BL: The fights down there--there%u2019s a lot of guys around here that boxes.
CFL: That%u2019s right. They had boxing on Saturday night. Yes, they did.
BL: A lot of them old boxers are dead now, but Ken Woods fought--.
CFL: Yeah, Ken Woods, that%u2019s right.
BS: Wasn%u2019t George Corn a boxer?
EP: You also had--during quite a few years there--twenty or so years, you had Golden Glove boxing here, too.
JH: Really?
EP: What was Spangler%u2019s name? The Spangler that started Golden Gloves.
BL: Jerome Spangler.
EP: Jerome Spangler.
CFL: Jerome Spangler, that%u2019s who I was trying to think of. Jake%u2019s brother boxed in the Golden Gloves, Ben.
EP: My daddy boxed. Tom Carpenter%u2019s daddy boxed.
BS: Didn%u2019t George Corn box?
EP: George Corn boxed.
CFL: George Corn boxed. I never did box; I was yellow. When you%u2019re yellow you don%u2019t do stuff like that. [laughter].
EP: Yeah, when I was in high school--you had a lot of the kids in high school--fought in the Golden Gloves.
CFL: That%u2019s right. They sure did.
BL: These kids down at the--this boxing they had down over the Carolina Fruit down there wasn%u2019t kids; they was men.
EP: That%u2019s where my daddy boxed.
CFL: Ted Woods%u2026
EP: Tom McCarver and%u2026
CFL: Tom McCarver%u2026
BL: I don%u2019t remember all of %u2018em that boxed down there but I remember old Cyclone Cook.
CFL: Cyclone Cook, yeah I remember Cyclone.
EP: That was ( ) Cook%u2019s daddy.
BL: I didn%u2019t know whose daddy he was but Cyclone Cook, Crown Lynn%u2026
CFL: And my Uncle Crown--my Uncle Crown boxed some down there--Crown Lynn.
BL: Crown Lynn boxed down there. J.D. Maclellan, Ken Hornbuckle, Ken Woods, old Mutt Hutchins%u2026
CFL: %u2026Mutt Hutchins--Mutt always lost [laughed]. Mutt always boxed and he always lost [laughter].
BL: I was about fourteen, Carl was twelve, and we sold refreshments down there every Saturday night. They didn%u2019t have no age limit on who worked.
CFL: That%u2019s right, we sold the refresh--now cut the recorder off. We stole everything in sight! No we didn%u2019t, I%u2019m only kidding [laughter], but we did sell refreshments.
JH: You did?
CFL: No, we had to account for all that. Pop watched us like a hawk; he knew us.
JH: What were some of the other ways that kids earned money when you were growing up?
CFL: Selling newspapers--Bill and I had a paper route, the Charlotte News.
EP: I had a paper route.
CFL: Ed had a paper route.
JK: And so did I.
CFL: Jake had a paper route%u2026
JK: %u2026The Shelby Daily.
CFL: The paper was about twenty cents a week.
BL: The Charlotte News and Observer was twenty-five cents.
CFL: Yeah, that%u2019s how much%u2026
EP: %u2026Thirty-five when I was delivering it.
BL: Well, did anyone have a dime?
CFL: Yeah, that%u2019s--that was what it was. The other ways, I%u2019m not sure--I guess working in the grocery stores. The kids would if you%u2019re talking about kids making money.
JH: Um-hmm.
CFL: They didn%u2019t cut grass %u2018cause%u2026
EP: %u2026Washing cars at the service stations, that%u2019s what I did.
JH: Um-hmm.
BS: There was nothing in the textile industry that kids could do.
EP: No, huh-uh.
CFL: No, they wouldn%u2019t let %u2018em.
JH: No?
CFL: It was mostly manual labor for the kids. They couldn%u2019t cut grass %u2018cause very few people had lawns. They had push mowers.
JK: Shoot, we swept our yard.
CFL: I said they didn%u2019t have yards.
EP: We didn%u2019t have grass%u2026
CFL: %u2026I said they didn%u2019t%u2026
EP: %u2026Grandma and Mama got out there and swept it%u2026
CFL: %u2026That%u2019s what I just%u2026
EP: %u2026cleaning all the leaves off of it%u2026
CFL: That%u2019s what I just said. Play that back and see if I--wasn%u2019t what I just said [laughter].
CFL: Play that back and see if I didn%u2019t say you had no grass [everybody laughed].
JH: I heard that. I don%u2019t have to go back. That%u2019s written. [Some people came into the interview area and were greeted] Well, what about going to the fair? Is there anything that you did to earn extra money to be sure you got into the fair?
CFL: Yes, m%u2019am. The ones of us who had the opportunity picked cotton. We picked cotton from the farmers who had farms surrounding where we lived. We picked cotton for about fifty cents a hundred pounds, something like that. It wasn%u2019t much, and we--.
BL: You didn%u2019t pick much cotton. You was just more or less out there. All the families picked it.
CFL: That%u2019s true. The families would get together.
BL: All the mothers around over on the mill hill, just about, picked cotton.
JH: Oh, really?
BL: I forget that man%u2019s name down there.
CFL: ( ) in the afternoon or in their spare time they%u2019d run out and pick cotton. My mama would pick cotton.
JH: Um-hmm.
CFL: That%u2019s how you made some extra money [pause] enough to go to the fair. Everything at the fair--the rides was usually a dime.
JH: Um-hmm.
CFL: A dime for a ride and you could ride %u2018em all. If you had a dollar, you could ride ten times and we didn%u2019t have much more than that to go to the fair. We had a fair ticket from the school that got us in free.
JK: The fair always come in here on a train, you know?
JH: Oh, really?
BL: Oh, yeah. He%u2019d come in on Sunday morning%u2026
CFL: %u2026either Southern or Seaboard%u2026
BL: %u2026or Sunday night or early Monday morning.
EP: ( ) Midway came in here on a train and it was the same fair we had here that they had at the North Carolina State Fair in Raleigh.
CFL: We had a good fair.
EP: The guy that was in charge of that lived in Cleveland County. What was his name?
CFL: Dorton.
EP: Dorton, yeah, J.S. Dorton.
JH: So it would come in on a train, so you all would follow the train, watch it unload?
CFL: We would go down, yeah. We%u2019d go down and watch it together.
BL: It unloaded out here in front of the old Shelby Mill%u2026
CFL: Southern--most of the time it came in on the Southern%u2026
BL: %u2026The fair unloaded there.
CFL: %u2026sometimes it would come in on the Seaboard.
BL: They hauled it out to the fairgrounds on trucks--pulled it out there. Tractors--tractors would pull %u2018em out there.
JH: That must have been fun.
CFL: It was fun, and we would go at least--I never went but one time a week, but I%u2019d spend all my money.
JK: That%u2019s why they gave us tickets for free.
CFL: Give you a ticket for free, and it was a big deal going to the fair, really. Mom and Dad, my two brothers and me, and off to the fair we went. We were on our own. When we spent our money that was it. They didn%u2019t give us any money. We spent what we had. I%u2019d maybe have two dollars from picking cotton and that would be it. When my money was gone, it was gone. They%u2019d have hot dogs, hamburgers and popcorn and that kind of candy that would melt when you put it in your mouth--cotton candy.
JH: Um-hmm.
BL: Taffy.
CFL: Yeah, and they had taffy and it was good and nice. And they had the girlie shows, which I wasn%u2019t permitted to see [laughed].
JH: Did kids try and sneak in?
CFL: Did I try to sneak in?
JH: Yeah, did you try and sneak in?
CFL: No, they wouldn%u2019t let us.
JH: Unless you were a good Baptist.
CFL: I was a good Baptist. Did I tell you I was a deacon in the Baptist Church?
JH: You did [laughed]. You remember you%u2019re on record saying that [laughed]. So you said something about if people had the opportunity they picked cotton--kids.
CFL: Yeah, if they were close enough to the fields is what I%u2019m talking about. Now over at the Ora Mill there was two farms that was on each side of the mill. They had all these cotton fields down through there, and they needed somebody to pick the cotton. The people over there were only too happy to help. They didn%u2019t have cotton pickers, except humans, and now they have cotton pickers, machines that do it. You don%u2019t see %u2018em out in the fields any more. Some of the people--some of them old boys that could pick could pick two hundred pounds a day, but he%u2019d pick cotton. We didn%u2019t. We%u2019d pick up enough to flop around on it and lay down and sleep.
EP: We had a family out there on our farm that could pick a bale a day.
CFL: A bale a day.
EP: A bale a day.
CFL: That was two thousand pounds.
EP: Sixteen hundred pounds.
CFL: Sixteen, well that%u2019s close enough.
JH: Wow.
EP: Sixteen hundred pounds of loose cotton--made a four hundred pound bale of cotton.
JH: Now Ed, were you a cotton grower?
EP: I%u2019m sorry?
JH: Were you a cotton grower? You said that you had--.
EP: My grandfather had a farm. He was a dentist. My daddy ran it for him, so I worked out there in the summers and other times.
CFL: Actually, he was a sharecropper [laughter].
EP: That%u2019s what I was.
EP: I was allowed to play ball, but on Friday night after that football game was over, my little tail better be out there loading cotton %u2018cause we ginned cotton all day Saturday.
JH: Oh.
EP: We loaded the wagons all day Friday and Friday night, took them to the gin, and we ginned cotton all day Saturday.
CFL: Back then, when they told you to go pick the cotton, they didn%u2019t say it--end it--like they do know. OK? Will that be all right? OK? You want to go pick some cotton? You know how it is now, that%u2019s what you got--.
EP: But your schools got out--the county schools got out for cotton picking during late September, early October, and they went to school during the summer.
JH: Um-hmm.
CFL: That%u2019s correct. You had split%u2026
EP: %u2026The city schools didn%u2019t do it, the county schools did.
CFL: You had split%u2026
EP: Oh, really? Oh, that I hadn%u2019t heard.
CFL: Well, the city schools didn%u2019t have to help on the farm. That was the idea behind it.
JH: Um-hmm.
JK: I gather y%u2019all never did hoe cotton. I did.
BL: We didn%u2019t live on a farm but we had to go to school anyway.
CFL: We tried to hoe--we wanted to hoe and they wouldn%u2019t let us %u2018cause we chopped it down.
EP: Chopped it down. I know what you did. You probably put rocks in the sheet when you picked it, too--to get it to weigh more.
JH: Now were you raised on a cotton farm?
JK: No.
JH: But you were hoeing cotton?
JK: No, my mother and dad worked in--they were textile workers.
CFL: Lint-head.
JK: Lint-heads, right? [laughter] CFL: We don%u2019t mind being called lint-heads [laughter]. We were. You want to know why they called them lint-heads?
JH: Because of all the lint%u2026
CFL: %u2026There you go. You know more%u2026
JH: I live in a mill village.
CFL: You live in a mill village?
JH: I do.
CFL: Well, you know what a lint-head is.
JH: I do.
CFL: You are a lint-head.
JH: [Laughed] EP: Where are you from?
JH: Well, I%u2019m from California. I live in Hillsborough.
EP: OK.
JH: Yeah.
EP: Hillsborough. All right.
JH: Um-hmm.
BL: You live where?
JH: Hillsborough.
BL: Hillsborough?
EP: Do you remember the black guy that was the superintendent of the schools down there the last several years, Randy--Dr. Randy Bridges?
JH: I%u2019ve heard of him.
EP: He played basketball for me.
JH: Did he? Oh, that%u2019s great.
EP: He%u2019s now the superintendent of the Burlington schools.
JH: Is he? Um-hmm. [Interruption as Bill Sherman is leaving] EP: I don%u2019t know what you want--this is good--I can take you up and show you the other part up there where the Hall of Fame stuff is%u2026
JH: %u2026That would be great%u2026
EP: %u2026if you have anything else you want to see.
JH: Yeah, that would be wonderful.

END OF INTERVIEW
Transcriber: Mike Hamrick
Date: April 8th, 2009