ELLERBY WILSON GRIFFIN, JR.

TRANSCRIPT %u2013 WILSON GRIFFIN
[Compiled May 8th, 2010]

Interviewee: WILSON GRIFFIN

Interviewers: Janet Hoshour and Pat Anderson

Interview Date: September 2nd, 2008

Location: Kings Mountain, NC

Length: Approximately 2 hours and 1 minute

JANET HOSHOUR: Okay, this is Janet Hoshour and Pat Anderson on September 2nd, 2008, and we%u2019re here with Mr. Wilson Griffin.
WILSON GRIFFIN: Right.
JH: Is that correct?
WG: Um-hmm.
JH: Could you state your full name for me and where you were born please?
WG: Okay, my full name is Ellerby Wilson Griffin, Jr. and that%u2019s got a technicality. I usually have a thing here that takes care of part of that problem. There%u2019s some stickers. [Laughter] Ellerby is a popular name around and a lot of people have it. I was named for my father, and I don%u2019t know all about that except there is a community named Ellerbe not very far from Union County, where he was born. So I have an idea his mother was ( ) and I like the name just fine, but I go by Wilson, unless it%u2019s a demand. Whatever you say, I try to do. [Laughter] I%u2019ve been right here in Kings Mountain; I was born here in 1924, September the 13th, and I%u2019ve enjoyed being here and I just try to go with the flow, do whatever ( ). Born on Mountain Street, or I moved to Mountain Street when I was a year old. Actually, I was born right beside the library, the big Mauney Library building out there. It was a private home at that time, but the next residents--our family was kind of getting used to being in Kings Mountain. They bought the drugstore in 1919 and came here, and I got in the family right quick. At that point, I%u2019ve been sort of right in the middle of town all the time.
I%u2019m involved with Central United Methodist Church, which is right down the street, and I tell a lot of people because there are churches everywhere you look in that particular intersection. I didn%u2019t ask them all, but they didn%u2019t turn me down. [Laughter] We enjoy going there. I%u2019ve been pretty close to the middle of town ever since. Real interesting.
Around on Mountain Street, just between the corner there where the Methodist Church is and down to the railroad on the left is where Griffin Drugstore is now. It%u2019s been there a long, long time, but in one building removed. A good friend of mine, Harold Bolick, has ( ). He works there and he is a good guy. He does my customers right. I don%u2019t get to work now, thank goodness. But having been around that close to the middle of town, and then I%u2019ve got these large ears that I hear a lot of things and I meet these different people that are involved with the community and with the public.
My father was always interested in doing things right to improve things. He was raised kind of on a farm, but had a lot of brothers and two or three sisters. A lot of people to tell him how to do things, so when he got on his own, he got interested in the drugstore business, too, and went into the pharmacy and drugstore operation.
He and my mother converged into Gastonia. She was a teacher. She%u2019s from Davie County. Cooleemee is a well-known place on the South Fork of the Yadkin River and it has a lot of history behind it. Their little story was they used to meet in the same little restaurant to eat. She was a teacher and he was in the drugstore. They met there and they finally got acquainted, and they made progress from there. ( ) things about that part, but after a good little while, being in a partnership with another family in Gastonia, and they got interested in Kings Mountain and they all were in a ( ) business together here for a period of time.
My parents have always been pretty headstrong and they made good decisions, I always thought. So it worked out real good. The ( ) continue their business and their activity in Gastonia. The Griffins stayed here, and of course a lot of other people got into it. We ended up with about ten drugstores at one time.
JH: Really?
WG: I never figured out the reason, but everybody thought it was a good deal, so they all got in there. I notice they all went away except a couple of us. Now we%u2019ve got a lot of the chains and things like that. But public activity is the main thing. My mother was very interested in horticulture, family life, and liked to do parties and arrangements, but mainly the organization of the Women%u2019s Club, which you probably hear a good bit about. Here, they have a nice building in the middle of town, and the generosity of one of the gentlemen in the textile business, one of the Neisler men, his wife and all of the others were interested, so he just let them have the land and the community helped them start their building. That was handy because all these clubs have luncheons, suppers, and then the Lions, the Kiwanis, the Jaycees, and all of the ladies have a lot of different things. They have a floral fair and all that stuff, so the public is always involved in that. And, I find that the general public doesn%u2019t really know where all this comes from.
In other words, people need to be involved and be concerned, and it just comes natural to them. We need to be more hospitable and more generous, more opportunities for people to find out. When I look back on it, my mother, she was a driver in that thing, and when I was with them, I used to have to carry the key because some women would be calling, %u201CCan I get the key to the clubhouse? We need to get in.%u201D So, here%u2019s the bicycle or the pony and here we go to take the key someplace. I got to live at the drugstore for a long time. [Laughter] JH: You rode a pony around town?
WG: Oh, yeah. Anything with good feet, yeah. [Laughter] Well, we always had land behind our house. I%u2019ll tell you wherever we got to. Right down by the street from where I started out, but my father and my mother both had this kind of farm life to start out. They weren%u2019t afraid of animals, especially anything that made eggs. The ones that looked like horses, they were probably horse people, would come down and say, %u201CMy boy%u2019s got this--it%u2019s a good horse, but he just can%u2019t keep up with him,%u201D or %u201CHe don%u2019t want to tend to him right.%u201D Said, %u201CCould I bring him down there and maybe you could trade him to somebody?%u201D That%u2019s the easy way of saying, %u201CWell, you buy him and you make me a price.%u201D That%u2019s about the way it worked.
But when it all got going, as I started to grow a little bigger and I had a baby sister, another brother came along. My older sister was an invalid person and she did not get up and go, so she and I did whatever she wanted done. But, you ended up, any of the horses looked like they%u2019re too tough, go out there and straighten that horse out, and it worked good. I%u2019m not afraid of horses, but I don%u2019t have any, thank goodness. [Laughter] The whole thing, it got to be, my daddy was active in a lot of things and he had this natural knack for cattle and birddogs and all those things about it.
His background had taught him a lot of things. Of course, one of the things was if you%u2019re going to run a drugstore, don%u2019t let that thing nail your feet to the floor; get somebody in there to help you do the work. That slipped up on me; I didn%u2019t know it was going to mean me. But we had a lot of interesting people doing the pharmacy work and had good competitors and the stores were popular, and good doctors too. They all kept in mind that you need a hospital; we need the other things that, in other words, to make the place grow with good citizenship and good politics.
My mother, with her connections with the clubs and various things, and all the ladies doing their thing, and the men, the very same thing. ( ), he was a member of the Baptist church. My mother was Methodist. The main thing is, for a long time, the drugstore guys would go up here and make change so that all the guys would get their nickel to pay the preacher, see. So he%u2019d say, %u201CWell, I%u2019m just going to go on up to the Baptist church and we%u2019ll get together over there. So, the children in the family had kind of ended up in the Methodist church. Now, I%u2019m the Methodist and the rest of them are--we%u2019ve got Episcopalians and all kinds of things. But the whole idea is keep in mind to serve the community, go to church, do what you%u2019re supposed to do and see if you can help somebody. That%u2019s the basic of the whole thing. Anything else, I%u2019d say, is just add-on.
There are so many good things that you can skip over, opportunities to do things. And then there are some things that you find out that suddenly somebody comes in there--I don%u2019t know where this term came from; I think it%u2019s got to do with the Marines, but, %u201Cgung-ho!%u201D for some subject. %u201COh, you%u2019ve gotta get in this!%u201D And maintenance says it%u2019s going to take some money and somebody that will do something. Well, %u201Cgung-ho!%u201D Watch out for that. That means somebody is getting ready to unload something. [Laughter] JH: So, gung-ho meant that they weren%u2019t necessarily going to serve their community; they were going to get others to serve their community. Is that what I%u2019m hearing?
WG: Well, it means ( ), %u2018cause you can learn from experiences, but make sure not all of them are yours. [Laughter] I like to keep it easy, but the whole thing, I found out that you do have to learn some things on your own and you have to do some things on your own. I mentioned my sister, Nancy, who%u2019s an invalid. They always had some person, some help, a lot of--I don%u2019t know exactly how to express this in current terms, so ( )--the black people lived in the areas that, all around town, some very good people and lots of them were inclined to want to help. They would be good companions for the several children, but also very dependable to help with Nancy, so that freed my mother and my father up to actually have a life.
A lot of situations you see that people are trapped behind a door and everybody says, %u201COh, that%u2019s too bad.%u201D Well, these people decided to get into it and do something and I was ( ) proud of them. But we had a lot of interesting things develop from having exposure to the fellows who wanted to bring their ponies or their horses or do chickens or train birddogs, because the veterinarians around didn%u2019t locate right in the little towns; they could do better.
My father had been in Union County, in Mecklenburg County, guys from the counties around; he knew quite a few people. The Belk guys were good friends of his when they first started the Belk%u2019s stores over there, the original one. The founder, Mr. Belk, was a friend of his. My father was known for fitting men%u2019s shoes. You know, you measured feet and you ordered the shoes for the gentlemen. Mr. Belk said, %u201CWell, I tell you what. Let me call Griffin. He%u2019s up here at this drug store. He fits the shoes.%u201D I don%u2019t think they ever told him that. They just told this person that. My daddy would go down there and they%u2019d say, %u201CHow about fitting that fellow some shoes? He don%u2019t like what I say about it.%u201D You know, a compliment gets you a lot of places. It%u2019s like the nickel ice cream, but it melts fast. [Laughter] Well, the whole thing is, I didn%u2019t know he did all this kind of stuff. Every time I would say anything about shoes, he%u2019d tell me, %u201CI think you need to get you some shoes,%u201D %u2018cause I wasn%u2019t much to go get them. I liked the old ones pretty good. But he was going to tell me how to do it. I said, %u201CWell, I%u2019m doing the feet and I%u2019m doing the walking. What are you butting in about?%u201D Then I found out he knew a lot about it.
The interesting about it is those details, with the little things like that in the store, and the same thing with his knowledge of livestock. A lot of people thought my father was a veterinarian because, from experience, he had learned what to do for a lady cow that%u2019s getting ready to have a calf and there%u2019s a problem. Most of them don%u2019t know what to do, and they come along and ask. Or it%u2019s some simple little problem and they said, %u201CWhat can I do about this?%u201D He said, %u201CWell, why don%u2019t you call a veterinarian?%u201D They said, %u201CHe%u2019s in Charlotte and he%u2019d charge me a million dollars to come over here.%u201D That%u2019s like, %u201CWhat will you do for nothing?%u201D Well, you make a lot of money doing that. But the whole idea, those vets used to come over and go out to where a herd of cattle was, and my father would be out %u2018til two and three in the morning. Now, the vet is standing there in his Sunday suit and his rubber gloves and my daddy has done all the work. He comes back and my mother said, %u201CAnd you didn%u2019t charge them anything?%u201D He said, %u201CNo.%u201D That%u2019s kind of the way it was.
I used to really laugh because this, that, the whole ( ), she would do everything under the sun, putting on all these things that a woman%u2019s club--and the ladies, a lot of them pitched in and did the work with her. Another lady, name of Ruth Goforth, she and my mother got on pretty well and they both liked to make sure that if they%u2019re going to do a fancy meal, it%u2019s going to be nice, fancy, and ready. They sort of, for a while, got called on like caterers. Unfortunately, Ruth, she thought to charge a little something, but my mother, she thought to go in and help out. I always got a big kick out of, between my daddy, he%u2019s out from the store and my mother%u2019s out from here, and what am I doing? Sitting out in front of the house on Mountain Street, three little steps down.
This is the part where it gets aggravating and I go too long about it, but I knew that Shelby and Asheville and all these things west of Kings Mountain, where I%u2019m a map nut. I%u2019ve got bushels of them because I like to ( ) improvements. But also, I like to know the communities, where they are.
My instructions were, because my sister Nancy loved to sing--she had a beautiful voice. They had bought a very nice Victrola. This was in the days where you do a lot of this and the records were thick as cornbread, not chips. [Laughter] My idea was to get those records that she might be planning to listen to and do this, and then I was supposed to go out no further than out the front walk of the house and down to Mountain Street because I never figured out how they got those steps in. They had a certain little configuration, just comfortable little steps, just right for a small boy. She would always be in the front room. If she called for me or whistled or anything or that maid person came and said, %u201CMr. Wilson, you better come up here,%u201D and then that would be it. Go and do this some more. I finally figured out that she could sing, and she never had any lessons. Had not really learned to write or any of that kind of stuff. Boy, to me, that was pretty amazing. Because that%u2019s what I figured I had been hearing at church and what my mother had told me and it%u2019s all working out. I mean, if you pay attention, nature does what it%u2019s supposed to do. Just %u2018cause they look like they%u2019re good to eat, don%u2019t eat all of them. [Laughter] You get along a lot better. But sitting out on those steps got to be a real education, and I%u2019ll tell you why. This is going to be a little aggravating, I think. Where are you from?
JH: California.
WG: Okay, I thought so. That%u2019s the reason I mention that. I didn%u2019t mean I thought California. I thought not from right around here.
JH: Not this area.
WG: Okay, the general idea is that people have thought they always know about where they%u2019re from just because they%u2019re there. That doesn%u2019t necessarily mean anything. Parachute jumpers have made mistakes and landed in some other place, you know. But the idea I%u2019m saying is, that little street in Kings Mountain is known as Mountain Street, and in particular, this part from this side of the railway is West Mountain Street. It goes by West School and straight on out to--it will eventually go to Shelby and Asheville and Kansas City, a lot of places because it%u2019s kind of like that. Well, most people kind of took for granted that that%u2019s the way it is. That%u2019s where you just get on Mountain Street and you go west, east--watch out for the train because it%u2019s a great big main-line track and it%u2019s always got trains on it. As you get across the tracks, you had to go up a block, kind of up an incline. Not a real steep incline, and you could turn right and go east on King Street. See, Mountain Street did go straight up through town, right by our drugstore and up by the Methodist church and all those things. But the trick was, you get over here and get on King Street because that was still part of that numbered highway. Now that was US 74, and when you look at your map, it runs a long way. You can get into Wilmington in a hurry on it and you can go right on through Asheville like you%u2019re--. Well, now they%u2019ve refurbished a lot of that kind of stuff.
When I tell people, you can%u2019t believe how you got to Gastonia and Charlotte from Kings Mountain when you%u2019re eight years old. See, my father had a sister that lived in Charlotte. I knew that address and I knew from the map pretty much how to go. You could get to Gastonia--just as you went into the town of Gastonia from here, like, what%u2019s there, I think Walgreen or somebody%u2019s on about that intersection. The road comes around from Bessemer City, and you get along about there and you could, for a nickel, get on the streetcar and go right down through the middle of Gastonia until you get to Broad Street. There was a big railroad that goes across there. If you go through Gastonia, you might end up waiting for that train. But P&N Railway, Piedmont and Northern, was off to the left, where a well-known fast food--I don%u2019t have them by their names, but one is over there near that intersection and this big railroad bridge down where they lowered the railroad through Gastonia. You know, they weren%u2019t satisfied it was up there where you could see it and they cut a great big ditch and put it down there so you have a lot more bridges. But I could get on the streetcar and go down there and then get on the P&N Railway for about twenty cents, and go all the way through Charlotte and at the right place I could get off and walk two blocks down to Aunt ( ) house.
Not that I think she was crazy about me coming, but she always kept me coming. She had a lot of problems, like being diabetic and all, but she%u2019d be with her only child, her daughter, and her husband. Both of those people were educators and they would be gone all the time. She was going to make a cake, I don%u2019t care who%u2019s coming or nobody%u2019s coming, but if you go there, you better watch out because a cake is coming. But I went a couple of times like that. I thought well, it%u2019s not bad, not thinking that that%u2019s thirty-seven miles from where I%u2019m supposed to be. Coming back was a different story because my mother loved to shop at Ivey%u2019s, another important store, so she%u2019d come over there to get a deal and save twenty cents. [Laughter] JH: So you%u2019d catch a ride back with her?
WG: Oh, yeah. That%u2019s right.
JH: Now, Ivey%u2019s was a department store in Charlotte?
WG: Yeah, and right in the middle. The famous saying, J.B. Ivey Company and they had about a five-story building and they%u2019re now--I think they call it--I%u2019m not going to mix this up, but I saw a thing in the Charlotte Observer the other day about the Ivey%u2019s Tower and I%u2019m thinking %u201Civory tower.%u201D Ivey%u2019s tower--you know, everything%u2019s a tower now and they have condos or the apartments there where it used to be a fabulous store. You go up about the third floor and ladies could spend a million up there. The reason they would stay and shop a lot was because those elevators would pop when they went up and down. They kind of dreaded getting back on the elevator, so they%u2019d just shop longer. I found that out as a small boy, waiting.
But the whole general thing was you start to realize the world is a bigger place than just Kings Mountain, and then you meet other people or there are people whose names you%u2019ll see all the way around as you get into this. You can hear a lot of different kind of names of people that were in manufacturing and a lot of people were in design and manufacturing. Like the Neisler family, they made intricate bedspreads and tablecloths and drapery. You always hear the one about the drapery in Radio City Music Hall was done at Neisler Mills here in town.
JH: Oh, really?
WG: You hear Dicey; you may have already heard Dicey is a small mill. When the Neisler Mill was in their--many brothers started fading away. Their children took different avenues to continue textiles. Dicey is an outspring of the original Margrace Mill, and that%u2019s from Margaret and Grace, two Neisler daughters, and their father honored them with that name. Then they named another one Patricia for one of the other daughters, then the Pauline for another one of the daughters. They had a lot of daughters and a gang of boys. But the Dicey Mill runs right now and they make specialty fabrics, and those two boys and their sons that run that now, they live here and commute over there. Both of them are ( ) and they%u2019re twins. They have the unfortunate privilege of being one day older than me, according to the date of their birthday. Actually, I%u2019m considerably older than they are, but I get around good. But, you know, the whole point is, these people, so many people now don%u2019t realize the connection.
One of my next-door neighbors right down the street had a big horse named Bob and they were scared to ride him, so I used to go ride Bob %u2018cause he needed the exercise too. They had other games. They had a tennis court and they were inviting me to play tennis, so I didn%u2019t know I was too stupid to play tennis because nobody had taught me, see. But the idea is they had enough players. They had baseball down there and they had three guys that were real good baseball players. I didn%u2019t know you had to be real good to be a baseball player, but people that played on the teams from these mills--most all mills had a recreation program to keep their guys working. If you could play pretty good baseball, you could probably get a better job. Well, some of these real good baseball players were showing up down there. They were the younger guys, but they were older than me, of course. I%u2019m wondering how come they got all these old guys up here playing ball and the kids can%u2019t ever get a chance to play? So I didn%u2019t go into baseball.
When I look back on it, all the things that passed--this same street I started out talking about, West Mountain Street, and you get over that one-block offset to King Street--. Now, from where you probably have seen the community nowadays, you come straight from Shelby when you have to do some fooling around, got to keep messing with the road, but you come into Kings Mountain and you end up coming by the hospital and that%u2019s King Street. It keeps on going %u2018til you go over the bridge. That bridge wasn%u2019t always there. You had to come straight in; you%u2019d come on Mountain Street. Now, you make a little crazy curly-cue out there at the armory to come up Mountain Street. Well, everything that was going west, everything that came from the west came right up that intersection, so all my life I watched them all go.
All kind of presidents--I can%u2019t name them all, but Roosevelt came by there two or three times and I was bigger at that time when he got to coming around. In 1930, the people here were realizing that they were going to dedicate the Kings Mountain National Military Park, the battleground, and some people here were politicians and they had textile plants and they had some of the money. They asked President Hoover%u2019s friends to get him to come down here and open that park in 1930. I%u2019m supposed to know the date, but I don%u2019t like to say I%u2019m wrong so I%u2019ll let y%u2019all look that up. It%u2019s in a lot of little booklets around.
But here%u2019s the thing--I was six years old and Eddie Campbell, right up on the next corner from my street, same side of the street, and he had a brother, Charlie, and a sister, Coleen. We all lived right here. His grandma had a great big house. They had people that had children--a disturbed family. You know, there was a father that had a small daughter and his mama, had a little room or apartment up there. ( ) situation and these people came back from North Dakota to Kings Mountain because they had roots here and they kind of went and started over. So, Miss Mollie Campbell let them have a room up there. They got all these people in the community upstairs at her house. That%u2019s interesting. But we put together our group.
Across the street, the Plonks--you%u2019re going to hear that name. You%u2019ve probably got lots of Plonks in your book. If you haven%u2019t, you will. R.G. Plonk, Rufus Grier Plonk was one of the many sons of a ( ), and engineer in the Plonk family. Good farmer. Where Ingles is building out there now, that monsterous thing, guess who got several million dollars for that enterprise? The remaining few heirs of those Plonks. But R.G. Plonk was a friend of mine.
Eddie Campbell, R.G. Plonk, ( ) Carpenter, they were over on the next street. His grandpa was a conductor of the Southern Railway. He lived to be a hundred-and-three. Can you imagine you%u2019ve got a neighbor over here a hundred-and-three and going to back his Ford out in the street while you%u2019re making the corner. I did good; I missed him every time. [Laughter] He also had mules. He had a little barn right across the street and my father had stock behind our place, all the way through to the next street. ( ) would bring two mules up there and he got mad about the election of President Hoover. I was coming to him again in a minute. But, they called the vehicles that things were so poor that they couldn%u2019t afford a car, they%u2019d take an old car and cut it half in two and the back seat--they put shafts out there and put the horse--and they called them %u201CHoover carts.%u201D They had to get around in Hoover carts. Now you%u2019ll have to research that some more because there%u2019s a lot more experts on that than me. See, I%u2019m just a small boy observing how the grown folks act. It%u2019s part of your education, I guess.
But, his grandson, he had several--the kids over there--his daughter lived over on the next street. ( ) Carpenter, ( ) and his grandson. My mother said, %u201CWhy do they call a kid that? That%u2019s kind of demeaning.%u201D I said, %u201CYeah, it demeans his grandpa who was named that, that%u2019s who.%u201D [Laughter] %u201CDon%u2019t ask so many questions.%u201D Well this little huddle of all those guys about six years old got designated for a chore. It was a mystery because on the lot where you see up the street here, somebody had built what they called %u201CSavannah houses,%u201D the craziest-looking building I%u2019ve ever seen, built straight up in the air like that. Well, a man wanted to cut a street through and the zoning board turned him down. You don%u2019t just cut a street in the middle of a block, but he%u2019s going to get back at his neighbors who complained. ( ). That was the property owned by Mr. Sumter ( ). A lot of those were around here and there still are, especially from Rock Hill and York into this community. That lot was about a hundred-and-fifty feet across and was never really occupied because he built his house way back, so the lot half-way back into the block had a nice house. His wife was a very nice person, very quiet. Mr. Sumter ( ) was the other way around. He%u2019d been postmaster down in Grover and different places, a tall, gangly guy.
All the ( ) were very thrifty. That means they don%u2019t get the wallet out every time somebody mentions buying something. I knew he was a nice guy and I never had any trouble with him, but some other people said, %u201CThat old man will shoot you.%u201D I%u2019d say, %u201CReally? When did they do that?%u201D %u201CI don%u2019t see how he does it. He don%u2019t have a gun.%u201D
The only thing they could think of to do sensible was to get a pool of money and invite President Hoover to come. Made a big, beautiful wooden-frame fire-trap hotel named Mountain View Hotel right here on the corner where the Joy Performance Center is now, and all the teachers lived there and quite a few of the traveling people. Of course, the train would stop right out front and the traveling salesmen who used to bring their samples and stuff, they%u2019d set up at the hotel or somewhere because you could get your meals, you could get a room. You didn%u2019t need a housekeeper, didn%u2019t need a car. You%u2019d invite your customers to come down to the Mountain View and they%u2019d sell you something. Well, it looked like a pretty good thing because the word got out that President Hoover was coming to Kings Mountain. You know, some people gasped when you said the President%u2019s coming. So, %u201CPresident of what?%u201D That%u2019s kind of the way it was looking to a lot of people. Not everybody was voting on that same side of the ballot. The manufacturers that
( ) be a good time to vote. I heard that; I don%u2019t know; I didn%u2019t work for anybody. But, you know, the noise got going about the fact that the president is coming and he%u2019s going to open the Kings Mountain National Military Park, the museum and all the improvements to go with it. He was going to dedicate that. And of course, being able to say Kings Mountain every time anything took place, that made people here think it%u2019s famous, and some other people thought that.
It turns out they were projecting a tremendous crowd of people coming here, and they said, %u201CWhat are we going to do?%u201D Well, across the street from there was a cane patch, two beautiful lots that my father was renting from these people. Put the cane on it because they had all these ponies and everything else. He learned on the farm you can raise sweet cane and that takes care of the feeding program of some things. So, they weren%u2019t using the land and he%u2019d just go use it. That way, the guys had a tough place to run and hide. When the cane gets tall, you can lose four or five guys in there in a hurry. Unfortunately, a couple of girls thought they could get lost in there too, and that was a trouble ( ). Had to cut that out, yeah. Well, everybody had sisters, you know, and that was the trouble. They said, %u201CWe want to talk to these boys. It would be real good if Mrs. Griffin, down on one corner of Mountain Street and what later turned out to be Tracy Street, if she%u2019d let some of the ladies--if they need to have convenience, maybe to go to her house, and they she had a pretty good-sized house, and somebody would be there all the time because of my sister, Nancy. They figured I%u2019d be there %u2018cause I mostly just sat out on the steps, so they had it all figured out. They knew Eddie would be up here because they had this monstrous iron fence, iron things sticking up, very ornamental and kind of expensive, but he was told not to go outside the fence. His grandma, Mollie, that had the roomers, she%u2019d call him every once in a while because those steps were steep and she had broken her hip and so she%u2019d always try to get Eddie. She had other grandchildren, but she called for Eddie. So, Eddie Campbell, R.G. Plonk,
( ), ( ) Carpenter and Charlie Carpenter, and Wilson. That%u2019s five of us. Well, we ought to be able to get people across the street, %u2018cause we weren%u2019t as stupid as it sounded. We weren%u2019t going to think that the president would be there and let the cars go by at the same time, but we didn%u2019t know for sure because nobody had told us; we were just six years old.
They build a platform and started bringing lumber down there, and the most massive pieces of big, square things, a lot of those. Then they bought boards. Heavy, wide boards. I should know the gauge of all these boards like two-by-eights and all kind of stuff, but I%u2019m not like that. Man, they were just putting expensive-looking stuff down there. You mind that at six years old, I know to pick up a board like that must cost something. You can%u2019t just get it there by yourself. I tried to pick it up and I couldn%u2019t even get it going. These boys were doing the same thing. We were really getting going. Well, these fellows came that were working in mills. Most of them were maintenance types and experienced. They were building a platform that went all over that lot, and wide. It would take a lot of straight chairs sitting there, ( ) because this little guy is going to have to go up those steep steps and come up and make a small speech. I thought, boy, some guys. They got a job doing that? [Laughter] And they%u2019re going to get to eat free at the hotel, and the train is going to sit there, being right in the way of all us trying--. Man, we were just having a fit. Boy, how dumb can people be? Well, it turned out that each one of them ( ) and the gentleman over here, Captain ( ) house, the famous conductor who lived a hundred-and-three, over to his house. His wife didn%u2019t think much of it at the start. She had three grown sons and a couple of daughters, and she would have had a house-full to cleanup after kids all the time %u2018cause they did what they did; they went away into getting production labor. They weren%u2019t there; she had it all, and he%u2019s on the train going back and forth to Atlanta and Richmond every day. Getting famous wearing his suit and having a good time. But, you know, we thought that was really great because we were in charge of stuff, and then it suddenly dawned on us; Eddie Campbell--I don%u2019t know if you%u2019ve ever heard of Sir Malcolm Campbell--drove the fabulous Bluebird racing car, and Eddie told everybody at West School. He said, %u201CMy uncle is Sir Malcolm Campbell. He goes on the salt flats in Utah somewhere.%u201D He wasn%u2019t real sure about it, but he had heard he was famous, talking about Sir Malcolm Campbell driving that Bluebird six-hundred-and-twenty miles an hour on the salt flats. Well, we got to kidding him because some of us had bicycles and some of us were still writing Santa Claus. But, you know, we got that platform built, and if you can picture now, that%u2019s--oh, this property is a little wider than that, but it%u2019s a tremendously large, big, flat platform. You could drive a big truck on it and nobody would know the difference. But you know, we%u2019d get Eddie wound up. We%u2019d say, %u201CEddie, you can%u2019t go as fast as Sir Malcolm Campbell.%u201D He said, %u201CI can too!%u201D He said, %u201CLet me ride your bicycle.%u201D I said, %u201CNo, you%u2019re not riding my bicycle. You might get hurt or something. My daddy wouldn%u2019t like it if you got hurt on my bicycle.%u201D He wasn%u2019t finding out I was stingy; he was just finding out I wasn%u2019t going to let him ride it. But we%u2019d get him going pretty good because he had one that the fender was off, and you can ride it and it would make mud get on you and all this stuff. Sir Malcolm Campbell was doing it.
Well, next door was Erma Thompson. She was a Williford. All the Willifords started that whole part of the community there and they also helped start the Methodist church. She also was the principal of East School, very strict. Across the street was her sister, Eloise, and her sister, Estelle. They were all clustered around here and they were our neighbors. She hated livestock, but she loved the fresh milk and the butter and chicken eggs, oh yeah. So she sent her maid that she hired for my mother to come over and get the produce and everything worked good. If the cows or the ponies or anything would sneak out, you%u2019d hear about it. She was so proud of her bushes and her spirea. That old family home is a beautiful place. It%u2019s still sitting there and looking good. Her husband, he wasn%u2019t mayor at that time, but he was an auditor and expert for these mills. He was a great guy, Joe Thompson. But he said, %u201CYou boys be careful now. Don%u2019t mess up any of Erma%u2019s plants and stuff.%u201D In other words, don%u2019t be coming over here and getting on her stuff. Okay, well I learned that long ago, but we got Eddie Campbell wound up that he couldn%u2019t go as fast as Sir Malcolm Campbell. He said, %u201CI can too.%u201D We finally got him going and finally, the day of the test came and he was going wide open like that and he said, %u201CTell me when to stop.%u201D We just let him go. Boom! Right off the end of that--into those spirea bushes that sit right across the drive. We looked around and everybody%u2019s saying, %u201CWhere did he go?%u201D They said, %u201CI don%u2019t see him!%u201D He%u2019d be down in the bushes with the bicycle. Miss Erma would send someone out there that said she did not want anybody coming into her bushes. We didn%u2019t know about that.
So much for President Hoover coming to Kings Mountain. I bet a good five thousand people showed up, just all out in the streets there. The other end of the situation was up there in all the stores, like my father had the glass windows out of his storefront and these little lead-cast soldiers from the British and from the locals, all these things. And then they were doing all kind of things to make sure there was plenty of food for everybody. There were not a lot of restaurants then. But you get that many people coming, I thought, boy is it crazy. What are they talking about? They%u2019re going to have every place up and down the place so that you could get food, and a lot of the clubs were doing things. You know, I wasn%u2019t supposed to go up there. I wasn%u2019t supposed to go across the railroad. But, there for two or three years, anybody that run barefoot in the lawn stepped on these little lead soldiers and guns and swords. [Laughter] But that many were all over this place. But I thought to myself you know, this is getting pretty good. I had started reading about things and hearing about the president. That was a pretty good deal.
Well, I%u2019m going to get back to Mountain Street and US 74 and how I went to Gastonia and Charlotte because US 74 is a whole through-street. It suddenly dawned on me that place really goes from the Atlantic Ocean clean on through the mountains and right on over. You can go on 74 and never have to make a turn, except if you go by Lake Lure, you get a little dizzy. The whole thing was pretty nice. But people were complaining that it took so long. Well, I found out early on, I would get car-sick or motion sick, mainly because I didn%u2019t go around very much.
To come from Charlotte on US 74 and you%u2019d get the bus and these were the big buses that had the motor out front like a car, a projection of the hood out here and then you%u2019d finally come to the windshield, and then all the smoke comes in the bus, and then you get car-sick. Those things were going by our place and I kept thinking they%u2019re big. A lot of people get on there--and then, occasionally, trucks. Now, not like we%u2019ve got now, but large trucks would come through, and all kind of things.
Well, people were complaining because in Gastonia they come to that intersection I mentioned, like where Walgreen%u2019s store is now. If you%u2019re going into this side of Gastonia, you go to Bessemer City. You go around a small street. It%u2019s a pretty good street now, but in those days it was very small, and there was a bus station. There was a depot, but I never could find out where that was. I could see the track, but the track would go through town and they had this little underpass. All the cars, buses, trucks and everything else was supposed to go through that little hole. We have a thing like that below here and I watch people now--I go through there at fifty miles an hour and they come through there at eighty. You can take two cars through there but you better be pretty good. It is kind of amazing what you can do with those little tunnels.
But, coming through Bessemer City now, if you can imagine, every bit of that freight that I%u2019m seeing going along out there is coming from there, and then it comes from Kings Mountain way around by the Lithium Corporation plants and they come up what we call Bessemer City Highway %u2018til it finally hits down at the corner of King Street. King Street didn%u2019t go anywhere; that was a private farm and all that kind of stuff. It took a lot of time to get it in there. And of course, nobody really thought I-85 was going to be out there, but now, you couldn%u2019t touch it without all that. But the train tracks still stayed, and they still cause trouble right now. It used to come into Kings Mountain and be a slight incline come up toward the Mauney Library, but it was like level, and then you sloped downward toward the railroad. But you didn%u2019t want to run in that railroad cut. You had to turn left, go a block, wait %u2018til you come to the triple tracks and the train%u2019s coming real fast, and then you go across there. That%u2019s good. [Laughter] Mr. Rhyne, my neighbor on the other side, he managed to get hit three times by the train. Mr. Rhyne%u2019s son married Mr. Hambright%u2019s daughter, and Mr. Hambright finally ended up getting hit by the train two or three times. He got killed. All these guys, they%u2019re too important to pay attention. [Laughter] It%u2019s what it amounts to, but over at the Cora Mill crossing, it was terrible because everybody%u2019s--oh, mornings, Mrs. Rhyne, she was the principal of West School. Erma was the principal at East School. The other sister was principal of ( ) School. All the sisters were in education. But the word got out that Mr. Rhyne was hit by the train. Well, of course everybody thinks the train is bigger than Mr. Rhyne and bigger than his car. Poor fellow. They thought he must have gotten killed and that%u2019s all you heard, %u201CMr. Rhyne got hit by the train,%u201D and then you%u2019d hear it again. %u201CNaw, that was two years ago.%u201D %u201CNaw, that was today.%u201D
When I think about it, people were starting to complain that finally, if the street went straight through, so many people wouldn%u2019t be at risk going over the triple railroad tracks and railroads are starting to use ( ) a lot more. And so, in 1937 they made a deal to lift up the roadway and fix it so they could put a nice bridge that could go over there. Well people said, %u201CThat%u2019s stupid. Down that old muddy hill?%u201D Now that was behind our house, going toward the hospital from there and it was mud. I mean, really red--juicy red mud that really stays with you. You ever get it on your clothes, you got it. But I%u2019m just about the right age for that %u2018cause I had the ponies and I had a bicycle and I was getting a paper route. I had to have a bicycle %u2018cause I got a paper route and it worked out good. I%u2019ll tell you about that, but I may have to quit in a minute. You know, I rode down by our pasture and down to the intersection of what--the little street would later become Tracy Street, down to see what%u2019s going on. Well, these fellows had mules and all kind of things. They%u2019re doing these drag pans and I said, %u201CWhat y%u2019all doing down here?%u201D They said, %u201CWell, we%u2019re going to put in a bridge.%u201D I said, %u201CWhere%u2019s the water?%u201D They said, %u201CThis is for the train.%u201D I said, %u201CWell, where%u2019s the train?%u201D They said, %u201CUptown.%u201D I said, %u201COkay, dummy, go ahead and put the old bridge in. I want to see you do it.%u201D So I appointed myself assistant supervisor. Jack ( ) was a real young, nice guy, fresh out of engineering school. He was pretty friendly and he said, %u201CCan I ride your horse sometime?%u201D I said, %u201CYeah, if you%u2019ll let me fix the train.%u201D We got to laughing about it, but I%u2019d go out every day %u2018cause I thought I was supposed to be out there. It turns out that they put in this big fill to bring the land up high enough, so that%u2019s why you come over that bridge and you go over toward Shelby, and in fact, a pretty fast little ride. It took a lot of time, but that just killed West Mountain Street because all the buses and all the presidents and everybody else was going through here straight away.
It was kind of a bad intersection out there in front of where the Country Club location is. That was one of the old Plonk residences. They had beautiful farmland and all the things around the hospital wasn%u2019t there, but somebody was influenced to make room for the hospital to come there. Several other houses--four or five families had very fine, big two and three-story houses there and they did farm all the way back out into what now is where the bypass is.
Some people kept saying, %u201CWhy don%u2019t they build a bypass?%u201D Another guy said, %u201CWhy don%u2019t they pay us more?%u201D You get it worked out after a while. All that time, that%u2019s what I was doing when I was growing up, %u2018cause I finally got the car started. My mother was a good driver, and my grandparents up in Davie County had a big grove of trees. It was a beautiful place.
My grandfather was--I don%u2019t want to sound bad, but my grandmother got this as land-grant property from his self, as I always heard it. From the king--I don%u2019t know who he was. He didn%u2019t speak to me about it. But they had it and it would back up to the South Fork of the Yadkin River and went right down. There%u2019s a lot of dispute about who gets the power from it. If a man and his wife had gotten the power plant on their side of the river and it%u2019s rocky and they needed to destroy some stuff to get down there to it. ( ) Cotton Mills is on this side of the thing, but they needed the power.
The railroad came; they needed the business of hauling the cotton in and out, so it worked out fine. Well, unfortunately, ( ) had to come across my grandmother%u2019s back part of her farm that was at the river. They could have put the tracks on the other side, but they%u2019d have to build another bridge. So she said, %u201CI just decided to just let them come on down through there and
( ).
A big granite quarry was down there--and she wasn%u2019t stupid--they wanted to get the granite to make monuments and markers. So instead of the guys having to come up through our farmyard and barnyard and through the grove of trees out there and mess up everything, they%u2019d just load those stones on there, put them on the train down there and take them away. I don%u2019t know how it worked out %u2018cause I didn%u2019t stay to see all that, but I used to go up there every summer.
But the main thing I%u2019m saying is, here is this guy; he%u2019s twenty years younger than his wife; she%u2019s got all this farm. He%u2019s a widely-known top-notch agriculturalist, raised from a large family, the ( ) family. Jim Frank got in the paint business; ( ) paint was famous in rural Kentucky and all around. Another one went out in Texas and got in the cattle business and he brought up this stuff. It was dried beef, salty beef in jars. I don%u2019t think he%u2019s the only one that did that, but they did a lot of that kind of stuff. I thought well, okay. My mama had a sister, and her husband was in charge of the Southern Railway. That%u2019s how they met because he was helping get the organization of that station ( ). My mother came to Gastonia, among some other places, to teach, and she met my father. They were going to have lunch, you know, and simplify things. That was really good, how we got it all straightened out. [Laughter] I would go up there to visit, and I was pretty small and there wasn%u2019t a lot of good things going on. I thought those mules are awful big; I can%u2019t even get up on one of those mules; they don%u2019t have any horses. I would get a horse--well, they borrowed a horse from a man across the other farm over there that had all kind of horses. So, they borrowed a horse and I rode their horse for a while in the summer. I didn%u2019t know the difference. They just said, %u201CYou can ride the horse.%u201D I%u2019d go back in there where the old granite quarry was. I thought well, boy, all this stone and they%u2019re not selling it to anybody. You know, people that do granite are picky too. They want nothing but the super-fine, and its got to come way back in there to get it out. The train people said, %u201CWe just can%u2019t stop to get a load of stone any time you want it.%u201D ( ).
My grandfather turned out to be a wheat expert for the federal government. You know, when they started trying to tell people what they can plant, why and what, all that. So, all during World War II and all that time, that%u2019s when he finished up his days being widely known as a government representative for agricultural things. I%u2019m sure it didn%u2019t pay him a whole lot because it never did accumulate.
I never will forget, my mother used to call, and her sister lived in Elkin and North Wilkesboro where ( ) was running the trains. They had a big freeze that froze out this special phone line that all the neighbors--the farmers and different people got together and had a big phone line brought to their places. When the freeze broke down a lot of the lines, the phone people said, %u201CWell, we%u2019re not making enough off of it to put them back, and if y%u2019all want to spend all this money, we%u2019ll put all that back.%u201D I thought my mother would die. She was distressed because she couldn%u2019t be running up there all the time, but here%u2019s her mother that%u2019s twenty years older than her father. She%u2019s a character, that woman. Believe it or not, his mother got down and so she got to living in the den, and I just--I laughed at this. She couldn%u2019t go up stairs %u2018cause she wasn%u2019t strong enough. The house, most of the bedrooms are upstairs, one where my grandmother and grandfather had that where they wanted it downstairs. I just died laughing because I%u2019m used to waiting for my father to come home from the drugstore, so--. Of course, I%u2019m nosey. I say, %u201CWhat could she be doing?%u201D I hear a sound. Poor woman with two broken hips, according to the story. She%u2019s already sitting at his desk. He had a radio with this headset. She had that radio on and the fireplace going; she%u2019s having a good time. It%u2019s twelve o%u2019clock and I%u2019m saying, %u201CThis is more like it.%u201D She didn%u2019t ever see me peeping. Golly, Pete. Put that in the book. [Laughter] But you know, it was something.
When I%u2019m putting that whole thing together, I said, %u201CYou know, I%u2019m going to have to think this over. Farming--I don%u2019t think I can do it.%u201D They had what they call the thrashers. They%u2019d get the teams together and go from farm to farm to harvest the wheat or whatever it was they were working on. The big deal was all the ladies would get all their best recipes together and they%u2019d just have a big fight about who%u2019s going to get the best stuff the quickest and get the most compliments. I think that%u2019s the way it was going. I don%u2019t know, but ( ). There was a ( ) place, raised forty or fifty pies at one time. I don%u2019t know why. All the guys said, %u201CNaw, I better not eat much. I%u2019m not supposed to eat pie.%u201D I bet I heard them fifty times say that. %u201CNo, not supposed to eat pie.%u201D I said, %u201CWhere is all the pie? Where did it go?%u201D [Laughter] But you know, that was summertime up there. I had to get back home so I could watch cars and the presidents go by and do the records. I got to going to West School--it turned out the kids were stupid. [Laughter] The reason was, my mother had--this lady was a teacher, third-grade or fourth-grade teacher, ( ) McGill. She was a nice person. There was a big family of McGills up, right up the Cherryville Road from here, a lot of property. In other words, it was just like people that you%u2019ve known all your life. Miss ( ) McGill would come down here. She taught regular school, but she came down and she%u2019d have two-hour classes with Nancy.
So, before I got to going to West School, I had already made about the fourth grade, and that%u2019s a bad deal. I never have seen so many dumb kids in my life as I went down there in the first grade. None of them could do anything, including their buttons. You know, they want to be excused. %u201CWell, I can%u2019t do my buttons.%u201D So I got a good job doing buttons. Talking to Mrs. Margie ( ), she%u2019s a good person. She laughed.
Eddie Campbell, he was kind of the same way when we had people in the family teaching you stuff all the time. He said, %u201CI didn%u2019t know that people can%u2019t read.%u201D I said, %u201CI know the kid. It%u2019s tough. I%u2019ve seen two or three down that can%u2019t read. I don%u2019t know what%u2019s the matter with them. Miss Margie said, %u201CDon%u2019t say that. They can read--by the time we finish, they can read.%u201D
[Laughter] %u201COr else.%u201D
JH: Where were these kids from? These kids were coming--and you were coming from the town.
WG: Just all around. All over the town here. It wasn%u2019t--now, each one of these mills, I think I kind of bypassed that part. The manufacturing was basically cotton mills. The Mauney family brought in lots of kind of intelligentsia, plus some engineering, and there were established mills all around. Now, for instance, at one time I was trying to name how many there were. I%u2019m not going to have them in the proper order, I don%u2019t think, but if you stay right down the railroad tracks from right back to the middle of town, just to the right, the thing right across the street, I believe it%u2019s Fidelity Bank now, where all the trains, trucks hit that hit the trains--. You may have heard how they cross over; that%u2019s where all that happens.
The Mauney Mill was famous for, I guess, making yarn from cotton. I%u2019ve never really been an expert on what the mills do. I know all the kids and stuff, but I don%u2019t mess with that, and they don%u2019t mess with the drug business. That%u2019s the way it is. [Laughter] We had a lot of good times. They later started a hosiery mill. Billy Mauney that recently died--when World War II was getting going, a lot of things--socks were hard to get, and they had the right local people that were connected to New York and had been in sales for other companies. They knew how to get in there and get Navy contracts, Army contracts, and also civilian contracts, so they did a good job with the Mauney Hosiery Mill.
Then they got into some other things that they do quite well. The textile business was going good. The Cora Mill I mentioned, this Mr. Rhyne, way down on the other end of the track toward Bessemer City and Gaston County, was a large mill. The Cora Cotton Mills, that was named Cora, ( ) was his wife%u2019s name. It was a smart deal to name the mill after Mama, I guess. But anyway, that mill was functioning when the Mauneys that I mentioned several times, they had all of these other mills. They had Kings Mountain Manufacturing Company, which is right up in the middle of town, practically. It did well for a long period of time.
The Neislers, Lester and Charlie Neisler, came in with brains, inventions, improvements, the things that make it better and to make these beautiful fabrics and stuff like that. So, he had a mill up there not far from his big home. The Pauline Mill, that%u2019s when you go through Kings Mountain now on the bypass after we got that other bypass that goes around Kings Mountain kind of. That bridge right there is on Piedmont Avenue. His house is not far from there, right up on the place, and a lot of other mansions out there. We got out of the mansion business around here, but that%u2019s where they all start out. But the Pauline was for one of his daughters. He had two daughters, Margaret and Grace, and the Margrace Mill was formed there. Then one of them had a daughter and her name was Patricia, so they named this external ( ) mill that made specialty cloth for Patricia. They called it the %u201CPatty.%u201D Can you get it? (Laughter)
You know, just being here and seeing all that happen didn%u2019t mean a thing. But, when it came time to go deer hunting, the Neisler boys had gotten this beautiful land down in Bladen County. My father was a good sportsman; he was a birddog and cattle expert, a good sport, and he%u2019d do all these things. I stayed and looked after the drug store when I got big enough. They kept asking me to take him %u2018cause they thought he was getting old and maybe somebody needs to see about him. I said, %u201CIt%u2019ll be me or him. You didn%u2019t need to invite me, but you have to take him.%u201D They%u2019d say, %u201CWe think maybe Doc Griffin--may be good for you to go with him.%u201D I said, %u201CI tell you, you%u2019d be smarter to ask my mama to go, %u2018cause you know she%u2019s not going to a stag party.%u201D But it was kind of funny how all those things were going. The main thing they were trying to say was, %u201CWell, we want to include him, but we don%u2019t want to have to worry about him.%u201D That%u2019s the whole thing; that%u2019s a natural reflex.
I did laugh because they were always doing things, improving athletics in school and improving sportsmanship, improving facilities like the Kings Mountain Country Club that was formed kind of from their influence and a lot of other people. My daddy and all of them thought it would be good if they could get that old Plonk estate and all that land that goes with it, and maybe Ray Williams would get into it because he owned a big strip right beside of it. So they got enough land to do a pretty good golf course. Nowadays, people like me, I%u2019ve been in there a long, long time and every time I turn around it%u2019s seven-hundred-and fifty dollars more to make the grass get green or do this or do that, and finally you just have to say, %u201CToo late.%u201D There%u2019s my buddy out there trying to get sugar out of that little red bottle.
JH: Oh, isn%u2019t that nice?
WG: I%u2019ve got a lot of them that hang around, but that guy is--.
PAT ANDERSON: Oh, I love those things.
WG: He%u2019s just a little squirt. The rest of them will kind of shoo him off in a minute. They%u2019ll be back.
JH: Oh, really?
WG: Yeah, six or eight of them will come flying in. He don%u2019t worry about it; he just hides under a leaf %u2018til they go away.
JH: Uh-huh, a little loner out there, huh?
WG: Oh, yeah.
JH: You know, you were mentioning earlier the famous conductor, and I missed who that is.
WG: Okay, and I%u2019ll get that straight. I know I%u2019ve been rambling too much. I think my problem is, I didn%u2019t snooze to my full extent. (Laughter) Let%u2019s get his name straight now. His name is Meek Ormand. I wanted to tell you B.M. Ormand. His first name was Beatty.
JH: How is that spelled?
WG: I%u2019m glad you asked me that. I was going to say B-E-A-T-T-Y, but probably needs a little confirmation.
JH: Okay.
WG: Two reasons: I never heard him spell it, and his wife--I%u2019m trying to think of a good way to tell you about this. Riding the train, it%u2019s noise all the time. Talking clearly to people that you haven%u2019t got time to talk to, like going to every seat to check the tickets, you can%u2019t stop and talk to everybody all the time because, you know [mumbling sounds]. Mumbles, that%u2019s all I ever got out of him, but he also couldn%u2019t hear too well, so his expression would be--you can hear it about two houses away as good as you could right there where he would speak.
Miss ( ) was another kind of person. She was Allison, from a right large family, but now they were two characters. She was heavy in the Methodist church and if things weren%u2019t going right in the pulpit, she%u2019d say, %u201CPreacher, can%u2019t you talk louder?%u201D or %u201CYou ever thought about just having a prayer and we can go home and eat?%u201D I mean, she%u2019d let him know. She was a little more congenial than that, but that was what it really boiled down to. But if she needed any favors, she didn%u2019t call her two grandsons and three or four sons are all around. She%u2019d call over--you could hear her a mile away, %u2018cause she was used to talking to Captain Meek while he was sitting right beside her. %u201CHey, Wilson, come over here.%u201D That meant don%u2019t hesitate. %u201CNow!%u201D is what it means. %u201CCome on!%u201D and I%u2019d go over there.
I used to tease her because upstairs, they had a cord that would hang down from the ceiling and there was a light bulb in there. I always thought why they got that? Why don%u2019t they just do like the rest of us and turn the lights on? Well, Captain Ormand wasn%u2019t about to have anybody turn the lights on up there because he raised a nice little vineyard up in the country where he was born, and he manufactured certain kinds of wine and it wasn%u2019t to be advertised. His idea was that he made the wine for the Presbyterian church for communion. [Laughter] That%u2019s the full explanation and that%u2019s the only reason for making wine. Right, okay. I slept in the front bedroom in our house and in the summertime we%u2019d raise up the windows, just a little crack about like that. A big burglar couldn%u2019t get in; a regular old burglar could get in pretty good, but you wasn%u2019t supposed to worry about that.
You could hear across the street when Captain Ormand was talking to Miss ( ), %u2018cause they had a double entrance door, two screen doors. I could tell which one was going in by the way the doors made different sounds. I%u2019d say, %u201COh, boy, going to be tough.%u201D But he%u2019d sit over here and he could hear the train go by right up the street, and he%u2019d go up there and get on this train. The train would normally come pick up Captain Ormand or Captain Moss. We had five conductors that lived here in town and they all had different intersections where they%u2019d get on their train. Well, he be sitting over here and he%u2019d say something [mumbling sound]. She%u2019d say, %u201CWhat did you say?%u201D %u201CDammit, ( ), listen to me!%u201D I%u2019d hear that going across and I said, %u201CUh-oh, it%u2019s getting tough now.%u201D That%u2019s exactly what he%u2019d say. I%u2019d die laughing. My mother came in here and she had been trying to read a book in a little room down the hall, and she%u2019d say, %u201CWho are you talking to?%u201D I said, %u201CWell, I don%u2019t know.%u201D I said, %u201CSome man was having a problem with some woman out there in the street.%u201D She said, %u201CNot that again.%u201D
The reason she%u2019d say it that way was, when I was kind of small, I was walking up the street, hoping to go up to the drug store; I wasn%u2019t supposed to cross the railroad, so that was the deal. This was evening, about dusk. A car came along right slow, right by Erma Thompson%u2019s house, which was next door. All of a sudden, I heard somebody saying bad words when I wasn%u2019t used to that too much, and all of a sudden--. The cars in those days, a two-door car opened from the forward part and opened out. Now they go the other way. I heard some swear words, and the door popped open and a nice-looking lady jumped out right on the sidewalk and then she fell down. I thought is she hurt? What do you do? This was a new experience. What would I do about this. I guess I could just wait and see or I could be sorry about it, but then he said some more bad words and I said, %u201CI don%u2019t think that%u2019s going to be good.%u201D I said, %u201CHey, wait a minute, mister. What%u2019s the matter with you?%u201D She got hurt and somehow or other, he pulled that door closed and took off and then he stopped down there. ( ) and I had no cell phone. [Telephone ringing] Is that connected? How did that work that way? [Laughter] JH: Want me to stop the tape?
WG: No, my wife will answer it, I%u2019m sure. But you know, I didn%u2019t mean to be causing any big trouble, but I thought it was not right, and I asked if she was hurt and she said, %u201CI don%u2019t know. I hope that--I wish the law could get him. I said, %u201CMaybe they will.%u201D She didn%u2019t ask me anything. I realized that he stopped but he didn%u2019t come back and get her. My mother heard me yell out. It was close by and she was there. She asked the police to come down, and they came down and talked to this girl and took her to wherever they took her. She made her complaints on
( ). I thought well, that%u2019s good.
So, I had to go to court, and I was going to say how it was. They said, %u201CWhat did he say?%u201D I said, %u201CI%u2019m not going to say what he said because I don%u2019t like to say what he said.%u201D I could tell you this; if it was your wife or your daughter, you%u2019d be real mad. This was Captain ( ), one of those conductors. He was also a judge sometimes. He was up there and he said, %u201CWell, Wilson, tell us what he said.%u201D I said, %u201COkay,%u201D and I said it pretty loud, you know, and he said, %u201CDoes your mama know you talk like that?%u201D I said, %u201CMy mama%u2019s not here.%u201D They finally put out a court order to get that guy to come make a settlement. I kept thinking and I said, %u201CBoy, now if somebody%u2019s going to come riding along down that street and beat me up one of these days, and I won%u2019t even know why.%u201D
I always thought, well you know, you never know what%u2019s going to come along that happened to you and I%u2019ve had a lot of things happen. I%u2019ve been stuck up; I%u2019ve been ( ) and find out about drugs. Believe it or not, I had gone to a small committee meeting. I was out of the store for about twenty minutes and I had an older friend, a pharmacist, who liked to do relief work, and he was working at the hospital. When he called me, he said, %u201CSomebody said you were calling for me.%u201D I said, %u201CYeah, it would really please me if you could give me an hour after you leave the hospital.%u201D I said, %u201CIf you have to go early, just leave me a note and check out.%u201D You know, just so I won%u2019t be stranded, %u2018cause ( ) and during that time, this little, rough guy--he was known to be with drugs and wild and all that, and I didn%u2019t know he messed with guns. He came in and scared my customers to death, and I had these two nice girls running my soda fountain and looking after the store.
The pharmacist that we had back there, he%u2019s a huntsman and all these things, and a lot of those guys carry guns. Now, I don%u2019t carry guns and I%u2019m not going to carry guns. I have worked in an operating room and I can help you get over it, what happens with guns, but you don%u2019t always get better from it, you just get over it, one way or the other. The first thing I heard, I hope he didn%u2019t get that gun out. I%u2019d had an experience about a year before with a young guy. He%u2019d come in, and I was going to leave the store with him, and I had this girl that was a real good manager. She was great to see, and everything was pleasing. I just figured he ain%u2019t going anywhere %u2018cause I think she%u2019ll keep him interested. He pulled open this drawer and put this gun in there. She said, %u201CI%u2019ve got one request. You%u2019re looking for me to help you today, and he%u2019d say, %u201CYeah, of course, %u2018cause I don%u2019t know all the customers.%u201D She said, %u201CTake that gun back out in your car, put it in the glove box and lock it; lock the car.%u201D He said, %u201CI%u2019m not going to do that, honey.%u201D She said, %u201CWell, just take the gun and get in the car and drive it off.%u201D He said, %u201CWell, you%u2019re not my boss.%u201D She said, %u201CWell, I am too. You heard what he said, %u201CYou run it like it was yours.%u201D That%u2019s what I%u2019d say every time. I%u2019d say, %u201CYou run it like it was yours.%u201D She was tough and good-looking too. She told him, %u201CIt%u2019s you or me, and if I%u2019ve got to go, I%u2019m taking the key.%u201D He told me, %u201CI don%u2019t work without my gun.%u201D I said, %u201CThat%u2019s why you%u2019ve changed jobs ten times.%u201D He didn%u2019t like it. I see him every once in a while now, and I say, %u201CYou ever shoot your foot?%u201D He said, %u201CNot yet, but I%u2019ve dropped that gun on it twice.%u201D I said, %u201CDo you ever hear anything from your wife?%u201D %u201CWhich one?%u201D That%u2019s bad, but, you know, you don%u2019t have to have a gun. Of course, if you do, you better know what you%u2019re going to do with it. It makes a good paper weight--after you take the cartridges out.
I always got to laughing about all these little things that would pop up with your different acquaintances and how you%u2019re getting involved with the community. Pretty soon the lineup, now like going to deer hunt, that was the great thing with a lot of guys. You just look forward to that. But the main thing they would do is go and--this is not too nice; maybe they went because it was a party; mama wouldn%u2019t catch them, or whatever. But the whole organization was to control wildlife during the season in the eastern part of the state, keep the deer population coming along because they don%u2019t live forever. You can%u2019t just go down the road in a pickup truck and shoot at anything that comes across the road; people live there; it%u2019s their homes, their farms and all that kind of stuff. It%u2019s a really interesting process.
Well, my father loved that kind of thing, and these people included him to help see if they could get that old plantation. It wasn%u2019t all his fault. I%u2019m not insinuating that he%u2019s a key player, but he was a good operator. He%u2019s been dead and gone a good, long time and I keep talking like he%u2019s around here, but your memory does that for you. You know, I had not ever been down there but one time after he got to be pretty aged and they were a little spooked about his health. Nobody wants to be responsible at the last day for somebody else. Some people are like that. This younger one of the brothers kind of cornered me up in front of the store. I thought he%u2019s up to something. Some of these guys want you to pick out a birthday present for somebody you don%u2019t know. You know, something expensive. I say, %u201CYeah, I get a lot of that. I%u2019ll have to open the safe.%u201D He says, %u201CNo, not that fancy.%u201D He had wanted me to go on a deer hunt, mainly because they%u2019re afraid of my father%u2019s health and fragile condition. If anything happened to him, he wanted me to be there to take care of particulars. I said, %u201CWell, I can%u2019t go. I really appreciate the invitation. I thought after all these years, you could have invited me, especially when guys my age go. You didn%u2019t. I%u2019m not mad about that. That%u2019s not the part--in fact, I%u2019m flattered, but I%u2019m not a gamesman. I%u2019m not much for all that.%u201D I knew my daddy wouldn%u2019t have any fun if he thought I was going there to ( ) him because--. It was real funny; he asked me something about--. He said, %u201CWhat was he wanting to talk to you about?%u201D I said, %u201COh, it was personal stuff.%u201D He said, %u201CYour business or my business?%u201D I said, %u201CYour business.%u201D [Laughter] I said, %u201CWell, it%u2019s going to work out all right. You won%u2019t have any problem.%u201D He said, %u201CI ought not to go, but I%u2019m going to go anyhow.%u201D He%u2019s tough. My father was pretty tough, but I had to laugh about the whole thing, these little things going on.
You had good little organizational things, like this same family that ran the Neisler Mills, the legend they liked best is, in their high time, they%u2019re doing tablecloths, fine linen tablecloths and all kind of drapery and everything at the Radio City Music Hall that was really revamping. That%u2019s been a long, long time that they--. The people that came here--I haven%u2019t heard from about salesman, %u2018cause a lot of salespeople from Texas, you know, they go in there all the time. The word got out that they%u2019ll make whatever you want, any color that you want, any styling, any weight, and a lot of things. When their designers get with the pattern, get with the coloring, to get with the types of things, then you can get materials so that the weight can be controlled. If it%u2019s going to be fifty feet high in a major theater, and you%u2019re going to have forty panels, you%u2019ve got to have ( ) go by and see it. So there%u2019s a lot more to the mill business and the people that do it than people catch on. That%u2019s why I bring it up every once in a while about little things like that. These mills here were experts from expert families with expert training and seasoned employees.
When you go by those brick buildings now and nobody%u2019s in there working, and they say, %u201CBoy, if you want to save a bunch of money, you go over to Family Dollar.%u201D Well, Family Dollar is not stupid. They give money to build the hospitals all the time. The Levines, they%u2019re doing a beautiful job of just making children%u2019s hospitals and every kind of thing going. You can go and save a whole lot of money, but what%u2019s happening? You%u2019re getting stuff, the weaving and everything else is done somewhere else and the machines are bought from Mexico and all this, and that%u2019s what kind of gets you going. People don%u2019t get it.
The things that we%u2019re talking about in the county like this and the towns like Kings Mountain, it%u2019s so easy just to pick the apples, no spraying. It%u2019s easy to get up there and cut a limb off %u2018cause it looks like it would make a good slingshot. I%u2019ve seen a guy do that to a fellow that was trying to make a certain thing do exactly the way he wanted and going to get his production built up %u2018cause he had hoped to be in the orchard business. This little boy went up there and wanted that slingshot limb and he cut that limb. We didn%u2019t know what he did with it; we just heard he had cut the ( ) limb. Oh, that--he might have run away with one of his kids or even his dog. But, you know, it was terrible. Those little things like that make a big difference. So, when your neighbors are pretty good about raising you, as they say--.
I had to do a little thing not long ago, and this person had asked me about something about %u201Cgreatest generation,%u201D and I was saying I remember just the people in my immediate block. That would be like Mountain Street and Gold Street and coming down toward West School and back toward the railroad I keep referring to. There%u2019s not many people living now. It%u2019s more of activities and ( ) and different things up there. That little margin of just what I%u2019d call a town block, taking all the intersections together. I had Erma Thompson, principal of East School; her sister, Eloise Nichols, the principal at ( ) School, which is a suburban school. And all these people are dead now. Sarah Kate Lewis, that was Captain Ormand%u2019s daughter. She was a special educator, and she also was at ( ) and came back here. Carlisle Ware, a good friend of our family and a good friend of my mother and all, she had inherited a large house down Mountain Street just across the street but toward West School. As I used to say, Miss Carlisle owns and operates second grade. [Laughter] ( ) and you went to West School, you could be in the first grade and it would be fine and you could mosey down to the bathroom and you could come back, but Miss Carlisle, you weren%u2019t going to pass. It was like she had radar and photo and everything. Everybody went by and some people weren%u2019t tall enough to look in her window, you know. I thought that was funny. Then Fanny Carpenter, she was--Mrs. Ormand%u2019s daughter had married a Carpenter, and Mr. Carpenter%u2019s sister, Fanny, was a third-grade teacher, lived on the other end of Mountain Street, and she walked down to school all the time. She was tall and very graceful, good third-grade teacher. You had to smarten up; you had to learn English and start learning some math by the time you got to the third grade because--she had a corner room down there, and it just seemed like it was somewhere else in the school. You know, it was just a rectangle. All of it was around the auditorium. But when you got to the third grade--. Oh, the little girls%u2019 room was right outside and the boys ( ), saying they wanted to go to the bathroom %u2018cause they thought that was--. You know, they thought they could put it off. Up front, it was really funny.
This Eddie Campbell I mentioned before with Sir Malcolm Campbell, he was a short guy. We had two girls; they were sisters, but they were almost like twins. Eoline Keeter Hord, she married Dr. Hord, the dentist, and she now lives with her daughter right down the street. She reminds me of two things. She says, %u201CYou know, I%u2019m older than you are.%u201D That%u2019s what she says. I said, %u201COkay, I%u2019ll send you something.%u201D She likes to tease me. I say, %u201CYou and Jo, I just get--I die laughing thinking about you and Jo.%u201D Jo, her sister, is about a year younger, I guess, and at least a foot taller. She is a very tall person. Good friend, and she%u2019s one of these that turns pink ( ). I mean, just look, and she turns pink. You may be planning to ask her something, but it was always funny. She%u2019s a good sport, and she married a good sport and that%u2019s a good thing.
But Elaine and Jo, when we went to West School, Jo did not want to go to school. She cried three years in a row, straight through. By the time we got to the third grade, she was still--like she missed her mother. I don%u2019t know. She and her mother were pretty good buddies. Her daddy was a pretty good guy. He ran a nice department store uptown and had a lot of things, later discovered horses. He got to going with the horses, but it was just real funny. When we got to the third grade, Jo didn%u2019t want to sit on the front row, but she would get nervous or something, and so Miss Fanny would say, %u201CJo, I want you to help me with something.%u201D Eddie would be back in the back saying, %u201CWhy does Jo get to sit up there and nobody to sit around her?%u201D I got to thinking and I went up there and I was talking to Miss Fanny and I said, %u201CMiss Fanny, you ought to stop at the drug store and get you some ice cream sometime. They%u2019ve got good ice cream and they like for people to try it out and be sure it%u2019s okay.%u201D She said, %u201CI didn%u2019t know you were a salesman.%u201D I said, %u201CWell, I just thought it would be nice, that%u2019s all. That%u2019s like an invitation. When I get old enough, I%u2019ll invite you.%u201D She was thinking boy, this boy is pulling something. I said, %u201CIt%u2019s Eddie%u2019s birthday, and he likes Jo.%u201D He wanted her to kiss him. She said, %u201CWhat are you doing?%u201D See, you had the seats that fold up. If you stand back, if you don%u2019t watch out, you%u2019ll step down in them. We had about four of us that had already been figuring out how we could get Eddie to stand up on the seat and get Jo to not go to bawling. So somebody just told him flat-out how it is. He said, %u201CI ain%u2019t scared of her.%u201D Up to then, he was getting ready to black your eye if you even mentioned it, you know. All of a sudden, %u201CI ain%u2019t scared of her.%u201D ( ). We forgot about his sister, Coleen; she was always daring him to do something, so he was more used to that than we thought. So he says straight up, %u201CJo, turn around here. I want to see something,%u201D and he kissed her in the face. You would have thought a pipe had burst, a %u201Cnow%u201D response. ( ).
Fanny Carpenter said, %u201CFrom now on, I%u2019m not listening to you kids any more. If your mama sends a message, tell her to write it down. If your daddy is coming down here or anything, you tell him to knock on the door first. Don%u2019t just come popping in here and ( ). Do it right.%u201D Every time I%u2019d see Fanny Carpenter from then on, she%u2019d say, %u201CI know y%u2019all were up to something. I knew you were up to something.%u201D I said, %u201CIt%u2019s not our fault Eddie%u2019s short.%u201D [Laughter] It was a mess.
JH: That%u2019s funny.
WG: Went to the fourth grade right after that, and it was kind of around the hall, and you can%u2019t believe this; we were doing fine; Minnie Ruth McGill--. You know I was telling you the
( ). Now she was the fourth grade teacher. Can you believe that she lived one house below
( ) Ware, the second grade teacher. Fanny lived way uptown; she had to walk by everybody%u2019s house. Now this whole crowd--I mean, we%u2019ve got the whole bunch out here. Well, Mrs. McGill was kind of tough, and her husband wanted to be a doctor, and he was known as Dr. McGill. Now, we had another Dr. McGill that was no relation to that situation. I kept wondering why do they call him Doc McGill? Why do they do that? Nobody ever wanted to answer that.
I got over in the fourth grade and I looked around there, and it%u2019s the back of the West School, in the old West School. You can%u2019t see it like that now, but there were windows all the way across and I thought that was nice because you%u2019ve got the sun moving around and it%u2019s going to be nice. It didn%u2019t ever really glare at you in that grade. I thought this was real good. Well, one day out of no place, they came in there and said, %u201CDid you know that the high school has called the fire (department) and it%u2019s been burning all right?%u201D A lot of us didn%u2019t know about it because you didn%u2019t hear things like you do now. If something catches on fire, everybody tells you.
I wouldn%u2019t want to say the wrong thing, but some people who knew how to get up into the absolute belfry of the old high school building--had been an academy, Bell%u2019s Academy. It later was modified as the high school. A lot of the Mauneys that had these mills wanted to advance on that. These people who knew their way around had gotten up into that place and I understood--now, this is from hearsay, %u2018cause I wasn%u2019t there and I was too small, but somebody must have been smoking. I heard that from one of five secretive places, so it was possibly true. But, you know, that whole building--I mean, that was a major event.
You wouldn%u2019t think that would affect us right down there at West School, but they had to go on half-day so the high school people could come down to West School and go to school and not end up stupid. They were already stupid as far as I could tell, but when they got down to our place, we had to fold up and go home. Knock out a half a day and go up there. Why, you could end up mowing grass or something like that. It was such a waste of time. What the heck, why ( ), just find out what they were finding out would be all right.
We were starting on geography and I never have forgotten the few first words I heard about where Iraq is now, and Iran and all those places; I heard it right there in that room. But, I went out and I came back in. About two days later, Mrs. Minnie Ruth McGill said, %u201CI need for you to come out in the hall. We%u2019re going to have a little talk.%u201D I said, %u201CWell, okay.%u201D I was going to say, %u201CYou%u2019re the boss,%u201D but I had already decided that was accepted; we knew that. She accused me--that was an untruth, and I don%u2019t like unjust deals. W.G., like goes with Wilson Griffin, had been carved into my desk. It hadn%u2019t been carved before the school burned and they had other people coming and sitting at my desk. I%u2019m not carving anything. That%u2019s practically--I don%u2019t do the nails. But, you know how it is. She said that, and this grown woman, my neighbor and supposedly my friend. And her husband%u2019s a doctor, but I never did--he didn%u2019t want to be a doctor. He got to be a doctor, but he didn%u2019t ever practice. He was a good fellow. I ended up doing some business with him one time. But, I mean, I was furious.
PA: Yeah.
WG: I told her, %u201CI want to go see Mrs. Rhyne.%u201D She was the principal. She was one of my other neighbors. We had had seven neighbors; all worked at the school. You couldn%u2019t get away from them. You couldn%u2019t get out of sight of your faculty. I tried it, but you know, I said I wanted to go see Mrs. Rhyne. She said, %u201CI%u2019m sorry; you can see Rhyne when school%u2019s out.%u201D I said, %u201CI%u2019m going to see Mrs. Rhyne now.%u201D I said, %u201CIn fact, I%u2019m going to go see Mrs. Rhyne.%u201D She said, %u201CWell, we%u2019ll have to have a paddling before you go. You can get a paddling.%u201D I said, %u201CJust put it on my bill.%u201D I had heard that from the drugstore. I said, %u201CJust put it on my bill. I%u2019ve not got time for that now, %u2018cause I%u2019ve been falsely accused and I%u2019m not putting up with it.%u201D She said, %u201CWell, I never heard anybody talk to their teacher like that.%u201D I said, %u201CWrite it down, then. Don%u2019t forget it. You falsely accused me and I%u2019m not going to tolerate it.%u201D She said, %u201CYou sound just like your mother.%u201D I said, %u201CI%u2019ve learned a lot from that woman.%u201D I said, %u201CBy the way, she%u2019s a good teacher, too. She might get this job.%u201D I was serious, %u2018cause I figured she could do it in a flash, and she wouldn%u2019t insult you either. She might beat you up, but you know--.
I left; I went up to Mrs Rhyne%u2019s room and I knocked on the door. You know, they had monitors sometime; they had this little girl that was supposed to be the monitor. She came out to the door, and I decided she%u2019s not paying any attention, so I backed up from the door and I kept talking so she had to come out there. That got her kind of flustered. She said, %u201CMrs. Rhyne%u2019s going to kill me.%u201D I said, %u201COkay, good. Would you get her to kill Mrs. McGill while she%u2019s ( )? [Laughter] That little girl started laughing, and she went and said, %u201CMrs. Rhyne, this little boy out here, he%u2019s having trouble, so I think you better go out there.%u201D She came out and said, %u201CPoor old Wilson, you%u2019re not having trouble. Is your dog back down here?%u201D In first grade, my dog had come down there and the little janitor had told Mrs. Rhyne. He said, %u201CThis little brown dog, it belongs to that Griffin boy.%u201D She said, %u201CWell, you need to take him home because he might get run over or something like that. His daddy would have a fit if that little dog got down here and got hurt.%u201D She knew my daddy really liked his animals, so I took the dog home.
In twenty minutes, Pet, my pony, came down there. It knew exactly where to go %u2018cause I would ride him down that way every day. I could ride him without the bridle or harness; I%u2019ve been on him with no saddle, no nothing, just %u2018cause we got along good. But Pet came down here, and Mr. Davis, a little kind of a dwarf of a man, was the custodian. Real nice guy and he knew me. All the kids knew who he was. He went to Mrs. Rhyne and said, %u201CHis horse is down here now.%u201D She said, %u201CYou go up there and tell him to take the horse back. Tell him this time, stand on that box.%u201D It had a chain; you hook it over a big hook up here to keep the gate from opening. I didn%u2019t know it was unfastened, but Pet saw me out there and she figured I was going where he was going and we went back to school. Mrs. Rhyne sent Mr. Davis around; I never will forget it. He knocked on the door again and Mrs. Margie Hord came to the door. I heard him say, %u201CTell him to come out there, that his daddy is coming down here now from the drug store.%u201D When he said that loud, I said, %u201COh, lordy, he%u2019s talking about my daddy. What is it?%u201D I went to the door and he said, %u201CYour horse is out here. Mrs. Rhyne said to be sure and hook the thing over the nail, and your daddy is coming down here to get you. This will be the last time of all this bringing this stuff down here. If you don%u2019t want to go to school, you straighten it out with him.%u201D
I hadn%u2019t heard this word before, the truant officer, you know. When she said something about the trueing officer, I thought they think I%u2019m telling a fib. I thought they%u2019ve got everything. A kid ain%u2019t got a chance. We finally made it, but for that half-a-day with the school and the high school people coming down because of Central--they built a very nice, big high school back up there and there was all kind of rumors. They are still going around. That%u2019s been, seems like, a hundred years.
Some of the rumors are still floating around. When I see some of these people that are older than me, if you can get older, they say, %u201CThat%u2019s all right; just keep it quiet.%u201D I say, %u201CWhat?%u201D They say, %u201CWell, you%u2019re the only person in town that seems to have found out everything about [laughter] that fire.%u201D I said, %u201CI wasn%u2019t even in the neighborhood.%u201D It sure did mess up West School, but it was funny. When I get on these committees, every once in a while, when people are getting kind of stubborn or bullying, trying to make somebody take something on that they don%u2019t want to do, something like that, I say, %u201CI%u2019ll tell you one thing; I%u2019ll get ol%u2019 Minnie Ruth McGill up here. She%u2019ll straighten it out.%u201D And they all know, when they came from Central School down there to West, that that woman would straighten them out in a hurry. [Laughter] Oh, I tell you; I finally got out of there though.
JH: I%u2019m getting worried about time. We%u2019re going to have to%u2026
WG: %u2026I know I%u2019m rambling. I was afraid of that.
JH: Oh, no. It%u2019s been so great going back to your childhood.
WG: You wouldn%u2019t want to go forward.
JH: No. [Laughter] We%u2019ll come back another time for the next chapter.
WG: Well, I%u2019m just wanting to do what you want to do. I realize I got a little--.
JH: You know, one of the things that we%u2019ve been missing as we%u2019ve been talking with folks is trying to kind of go back to get an idea of what things were like, and we%u2019ve had a really hard time getting folks to do that, so this has been wonderful.
WG: Well, there%u2019s a couple of things I will say about the lifetime during that period of time, because it advanced pretty fast after--. Grocery stores, for example--you went to the grocery store and you kind of suggested what you%u2019d like to get. Some of them had started having produce. Now, you could go to, like a company store where most of the mill company was more or less endorsing and they had a good manager out there. Some other situations, it may have been an enterprising person invested or rented the property, but you needed to be close to where the people were going to get off work and have a payday and be able to spend some money and have a way to get gone with it, because not everybody came up there with a car. There was a lot of that, so you had to think about how business ( ).
Then we had these classic, little town, downtown stores, markets. ( ) Baker, for one, was right up the street from our store, and he had a son and he came in and worked with him for a period of time. One block over, between town and ( ) Baker%u2019s home, was the Woman%u2019s Club building. All these ladies are constantly getting involved with fixing meals. That%u2019s a set-up, you see, because they knew anything special, they could get ( ) Baker, and billed to get that lined up and go place the order, and somehow or other, those bushel baskets of whatever it is they ordered would get to the Woman%u2019s Club. No car, no nothing, and then they%u2019d write it down and when the project was over, then they%u2019d pay. Good deal, huh? They knew to put the Woman%u2019s Club. [Laughter] Mr. Neisler gave them the lot and they got the money up and all that. The guy didn%u2019t want to lose his job at the bank, so he helped them get a good note and it worked out really fine. People like my mama and about ten thousand other ladies like that, they did all the work anyhow. You couldn%u2019t hire them to do it, you just couldn%u2019t stop them from doing it. [Laughter] I felt big; I carried the key to that place.
JH: Yeah.
WG: Any time they wanted, they%u2019d call up late at night and me bring the key. No cookies, no nothing. But there are a lot of things that happened in this place besides just that. One of the things was the high school was rebuilt. We started having things that a lot of people at my school hadn%u2019t heard much about--any football team, basketball team and all these other things. They also had debating teams and some things that a lot of boys didn%u2019t think anybody would do a dumb thing like that. But every once in a while, a couple of sharp operators came up that could really handle that, you see, and the rest of us would back up.
I heard about foreign languages. I liked some of the languages. ( ). They had a French teacher up there; her name was Janet Scoggins. She was the kind of person that could keep you interested. She was kind of tall and sort of forceful, and not just a lot of congeniality. But we got it going along pretty good. She said she was going to be a French teacher, and I realized she had a speech impediment. A lot of her words would kind of hang up on the way out. We had several girls in our class that were nice girls and were really good, but they expected the teacher to be perfect. I%u2019m looking at it the other way around. How would you know perfect unless you%u2019re perfect too? You%u2019ve got to have experience. So, we got going and I purposely got my chair right up close to the teacher. I used to do that all the time because you could cause more trouble up close. Also, you can learn to shut up because they can hear everything you say. Well, Janet started on that French and I got to thinking about it. I said, %u201CI don%u2019t know where in the world people would go to speak French. Why would they do that? Why would they do that? Everybody in Paris speaks English.%u201D I found that out; I went to the movie and all the French people were speaking English. I asked her about that and she said there were parts of France where the people hadn%u2019t been to the movies. [Laughter] I said, %u201CWell, I think I%u2019ll go over there and do it.%u201D
Little did I know that during World War II--I was going to Carolina for pharmacy school and they were getting so onery--. The other schools that had Navy programs were not having enough enrollment to support those things, so at Chapel Hill we had the pre-flight school and we had several other very advanced things, the Naval Reserve Organization on campus and things--. And some of the Navy, they%u2019d say, %u201CLet%u2019s get all of our boys who are deferred and going to pharmacy school ( ). We%u2019re giving them a couple of years of grace on active duty to finish, so we%u2019ll have an accomplished personnel. The same thing, people in the civilian activities are going to die out. We don%u2019t know how long the war%u2019s going to be or anything else about it, but it was good thinking. So, for Purdue and two or three other great universities that had some pharmacy schools, they would let their students transfer to Carolina, having already said, %u201CYeah, I want to be in the Navy.%u201D So our professors were teaching civilian and then they were teaching the Navy classes. They were going to do two classes.
I was a lab assistant. I would get materials out for the professor, what the kids were going to use, then sometimes I had to grade their work because working in a drugstore all your life, you find out how to do it later after you learned how. But this little business was going around the room and I overheard at the faculty meeting because I had to go down and turn a report and I%u2019m sitting out there waiting for them to shut up so I can turn the report in. They were saying, %u201CWell, we might as well just flunk out these Navy boys. We%u2019ll just build up on these tests, and then they%u2019ll have to go on active duty and we%u2019ll just go ahead and teach the civilian ones. There were just one or two greedy guys doing that ( ) and it was tough.
I shouldn%u2019t have heard all that except I did and he said it. He shouldn%u2019t have said it, but the dean was a pretty good friend of mine and he later died not long after that event took place. The fellow that replaced him was taller and more intellectual and a little more scheming and I think he thought well, that%u2019s probably true. I better go along with the rest. These other guys will get me fired from the faculty.
You know, a big investment in land and things around Chapel Hill, which is--you could be a millionaire if you bought down ( ). I%u2019m talking about now you could be a millionaire. Well, anyhow, we heard about that and so we decided that all the junior class would do the best we could and have our work going good so we were looking good the first half of summer school. We were paying money for it and they were teaching and they were getting the money, and we%u2019re going to sign up for the second. Well, we all made sure that we were doing good work. It had to at least be B-plus quality and there wasn%u2019t any question about that. I went over to South Building to administration headquarters and I talked to them about it. I said, %u201CYou know, a lot of us are being deferred.%u201D Now, like in Kings Mountain, the local draft board--I was a fairly new registrant. I wasn%u2019t very old, but they were deferring me kind of automatically because of doing the school and you don%u2019t want to run out of pharmacists.
We all decided, the girls too, and said we will just take incomplete, which showed our grades, our marks, were up there good, and we would take incomplete, not take any final tests, but be qualified for the continued course, okay? Over at the South Building, they didn%u2019t know what to say about it, but then we got to talking about it just a little bit. I was with ( ) fraternity and we had another couple of guys in the pharmacy fraternity. We were well represented and all those things. They said, %u201CWell, there%u2019s a good reason. You%u2019re just going to have to understand it, but we feel like we%u2019re ready to do service now.%u201D
One of them was saying, %u201CI%u2019ve got a brother-in-law that is a pharmacist that%u2019s in North Africa and he got shot. Now he can%u2019t run his drugstore and he can%u2019t do much for the Navy either. Things like that, we know that we%u2019re going to need more people.%u201D So they agreed to it. So the junior class took incomplete. We were ready to go. That left the professors stuck with the Navy personnel that had been sent here for others, and that%u2019s the only pay they%u2019re going to get because the paying guys are leaving. That was tough, wasn%u2019t it? [Laughter] Dr.( ), the guy that was kind of the ring leader of this greedy situation, he and another one of the fellows had a deal to write a book on what to give to the pharmacists and military service, a textbook. Of course, you have to vouch for the projects or ( ) tests or anything. You do them and the text reading right so it comes out. Well, it was unfortunate. It was two pages in there that was just absolute--you make a project by that ( ). It%u2019s terrible. That was a shame. Well, they published the book, and when I got over in Algeria they gave me one of the books to go by. I%u2019ve got it up at the house. Well, Dr. ( ), all his books came back. [Laughter] What a pity.
JH: We%u2019re going to have to move on, but I would--I would love if we can come back again for another chapter.
WG: Well, I didn%u2019t want to bore you to death.
JH: [Laughter] Not in the least. This has been wonderful.
WG: Oh, I get out of hand. That%u2019s the problem.
JH: Oh, no. It%u2019s been wonderful. It%u2019s been a real treat. So, like I say, we haven%u2019t gotten much about the history, so--.
WG: Yeah, I%u2019m going to have to shape up.
JH: [Laughter] WG: There%u2019s a good bit of stuff too. There are several really good books around about
( ), any of the books that have been written about Kings Mountain?
JH: No, but what I%u2019m doing is, I%u2019m kind of looking at what hasn%u2019t been documented.
WG: Okay. The reason I asked--I%u2019ve got a couple of people who are really qualified and have done some right good books. They%u2019re kind of pamphlet style. The Kings Mountain Museum has those. Had you been there?
JH: No, but I was going to go over there.
WG: Okay, because they have those books in the place. I%u2019ve managed to get my sister and my brother the different ones to make sure they know about the place. She passed away last year after an accident and he%u2019s in the Presbyterian Home with his--enjoying his sixth year of Non-Hodgkins lymphoma.
JH: Oh, no.
WG: Unfortunately, they were both younger than me. I told them, %u201CYou just didn%u2019t eat your ice cream.%u201D ( ) and last longer.
JH: Yeah, on my way out of town tomorrow, I was going to stop at the museum and spend some time.
WG: Yeah, that%u2019s good. Becky%u2019s a good girl that runs that place.
JH: We%u2019re also making lists of other people to talk to because the project is going to continue on, and people from the community are going to--we%u2019re going to be looking for volunteers from people from the community to start doing the oral histories.
WG: There are a lot of people around. I don%u2019t know--in fact, I am lousy to recommend because I usually have more to say than I know about. [Laughter] The general idea is that when I sometimes say, %u201CThis person would be real good,%u201D I don%u2019t know how they respond. And of course, the ones I%u2019d really like to send you to, they%u2019re not here.
JH: Yeah.
PA: You need to write a book.
WG: Well, it%u2019s my arm. [Laughter] I told you about first grade.
JH: They have voice-recognition software; you talk right in.
WG: But, you know, this Eoline Hord that I was talking about; I think she%u2019d be real good. The reason is--she has one of her daughters that lives around, and they%u2019re good buddies. They can kind of drive each other forward. I think Eoline would be somebody that would be really good.
JH: That was Elaine Horn?
WG: Eoline. E-O-L-I-N-E.
JH: Horn with an %u201CE%u201D or H-O-R--?
WG: H-O-R-D.
JH: Oh, Hord.
WG: Yeah.
WG: Her husband was a dentist. He was about a year ahead of me in school, a very good guy. I%u2019m going to get you the phone number for her daughter%u2019s house.
JH: And what%u2019s her daughter%u2019s name? Can you remember?
WG: Yeah, Barbara Fulton. Her son-in-law%u2019s name is Corky Fulton. That sounds screwy, but he%u2019s a fine businessman. He invented a process called %u201Csagesport.%u201D His middle name is Sage. Sage Fulton, and sagesport--. Believe it or not, he got with electronics and all that stuff and what they do is--somebody buys stuff on the wire and it comes out and Barbara and her daughter runs that. It mails out everything, any kind of ( ) you can wear or any of these things like that.
JH: Oh, really?
WG: I don%u2019t even know what all they have. All I know, it seems he buys big houses and whatever he wants.
JH: Oh!
WG: Any time. He%u2019s a good guy, but I think he has a lot of things going on.
JH: Uh-huh.
WG: This is a Christmas present. Otherwise, the phone book would not be in there.
JH: That%u2019s very nice.
WG: It is.
END OF INTERVIEW
Mike Hamrick, May 8th, 2010