FLAY GANTT

TRANSCRIPT %u2013 FLAY GANTT
[Compiled March 27, 2011]

Interviewee: FLAY GANTT

Interviewer: Buzz Biggerstaff & Jeff Currie

Interview Date: August 16, 2008

Location: Boiling Springs, North Carolina

Length: Approximately 90 minutes

BUZZ BIGGERSTAFF: [fades in] %u2026whatever you can remember about your days in textiles. You spent a lot of days in there.
FLAY GANTT: All right %u2013 go ahead.
JEFF CURRIE: Well, we%u2019re going to start out going pretty far back, and have you tell us where you grew up.
FG: I grew up in Cleveland County, up close to Zion Church up here--Lattimore.
JC: So what was it like back then when you were young? Did you farm?
FG: Well, I was %u2013 yeah, I was raised on a farm. We farmed %u2013 up till I got %u2013 I was %u2013 I was twenty-one year old when I went to textiles %u2013 went to work when the eight-hour law went into effect, back during the Depression. I went to work at Lawndale in the dye plant up there.
BB: What %u2013 about what year was this?
FG: That was. . . can%u2019t remember the exact date, but you can check and find out. I mean it. . .
BB: In other words, you were born in what, 1913?
FG: 1913.
BB: So that would have been about %u2013 twenty-four, thirty %u2013 been about %u201935 then, roughly. Is that right?
JC: What was Lawndale like back then?
FG: It was %u2013 oh, they had a %u2013 they made crocheting thread, yarn, and sewing thread, and stuff like that. And they had a dye plant; they dyed yarn for other mills around.
JC: Right.
BB: Now the throwing yarn you mentioned %u2013 what was -- exactly what was throwing yarn?
FG: What?
BB: The throwing yarn you mentioned %u2013 throwing yarn %u2013 was that a single-ply or two-ply, or was it just %u2013 what was . . .
FG: Well, it was %u2013 they made single and double. They had winders and twisters in the mill part. Well, I was working in the dye part.
BB: Uh-huh, ok.
FG: I worked there till %u2013 till %u2013 oh, when I was drafted in the army. Stayed over there %u2013 stayed over there a year, about. Oh, I went through %u2013 we landed at Glasgow, Scotland, and we got our equipment and we landed in Cherbourg, [pause] France. Went through France, Belgium, Holland, and Germany.
JC: Were you in the infantry over there?
FG: No, I was in anti-aircraft.
JC: Anti-aircraft guns.
BB: Did you think about the textile mills while you was over there, and maybe looking forward to coming back and getting back . . .
FG: Oh yeah. They %u2013 I %u2013 when I come back, I went back to Lawndale and worked about six months and then %u2013Rilla, my wife, was working at the cloth mill, and they was an opening over there, and I went %u2013 changed and went to the cloth mill. Stayed there thirty-three years.
BB: Now, when she went to work over there -- so, it was pretty well new then. It would have been in the . . .
FG: Well, it was a %u2013 Cleveland Cloth Mill, it was started by [pause] %u2013 I can%u2019t %u2013 I can%u2019t call the name it was started by, but Stevens bought them out, and they remodeled that plant, and they put hardwood floors in that mill.
BB: Uh-huh.
FG: It was %u2013 it was a clean mill; they wouldn%u2019t -- they didn%u2019t run no cotton, they wasn%u2019t %u2013 it was all synthetic.
BB: Did %u2013 were they . . .
FG: Nylon, and polyester, and stuff like that.
BB: So they went from yarn to weaving all the way, or did they . . .
FG: That was what %u2013 they was a-weaving there, at the cloth mill all along, but when Stevens %u2013 they bought it %u2013 they remodeled the place.
BB: Mm-mmm.
FG: And it was %u2013 air-conditioned. That was the first mill that was air-conditioned. It was Cleveland Cloth Mill had air-conditioning, and . . .
BB: Were you able to continue in the dyeing end when you went to Cleveland Cloth, or did you . . .
FG: Oh no, it was altogether different.
BB: Ok.
FG: That was %u2013 different operation. I worked in the %u201Cslasher room,%u201D they called it. I made the warps [clears throat] that went on the loom.
BB: The Stevens folks that we mentioned, they were kinda %u2013 from out. . .
FG: They had mills in South Carolina, and had %u2013 they had several mills in North Carolina. They was a big outfit. And [clears throat] right after I retired, they closed cloth mill and moved it to South Carolina. Down Greenville, South Carolina. And why they done that %u2013 they had put in new looms over there, [pauses] I talked to John Z. %u2013 he was a %u2013 worked in the office %u2013 that%u2019s %u2013 they closed %u2013 and he said the reason he thought was on account of the [long pause] . . .
BB: Imports, or . . . ?
FG: No, it%u2019s a %u2013 union was trying %u2013 working, trying to get in there. They, they got, they had got where they could come in the mill, them union people. They%u2019s in there, and -- I don%u2019t know if that had anything to do with it or not, but they had a vote on it, and they %u2013 we %u2013 I was against the union, always have. I didn%u2019t %u2013 and I %u2013 we %u2013 won the vote by a few votes %u2013 wasn%u2019t much difference in it. They got to where they%u2019s a lot of %u2013 colored people working, and they was for the union. They told them they%u2019d all be overseers and things, if they could get the union in there.
BB: [clears throat] When did they start %u2013 the Afro-Americans, and the others %u2013 when did they start working there at the plant? They weren%u2019t working when you first got there?
FG: No, they %u2013 when the %u2013 when they passed the law that they had to hire them. When you, you was working at Cliffside . . .
BB: Mm-mmm.
FG: . . . you know when that happened.
BB: Right.
FG: But I %u2013 I don%u2019t know what year it was. Back in %u2013 I think when Johnson was president, back when they. . .
BB: In the sixties, yeah.
FG: I think it was.
JC: So uh, going back a little bit, to Lawndale, when you worked there at Lawndale, in the dye plant, did you live in Lawndale?
FG: I lived at Polkville.
JC: You lived at Polkville. So you didn%u2019t live in the mill village, there at Lawndale.
FG: No, no. They%u2019d sold them houses to people that had lived there all their lives. They sold the houses to them people that worked in the mill and dye plant. But that %u2013 I went to work later %u2013 [laughs] and Polkville%u2019s the closest I could find a house. I got married in 1940, and I was already working up there when I got married. We rented a house at Polkville. Lived there till I went in the service.
JC: Did um %u2013 when you lived at Polkville, did you still keep farming some?
FG: No, no. My daddy died %u2013 about the time I went to work at Lawndale, and %u2013 my mother, she moved in with one of my other brothers, and %u2013 so %u2013 that%u2019s when I went to work %u2013 at Lawndale.
JC: So you didn%u2019t um %u2013 even, even though you quit farming %u2013 did you have a garden or anything, or %u2013 any other kinda %u2013 like hogs, or chickens?
FG: I didn%u2019t have no gardens there at Polkville or anything. After I moved here, I had a garden ever year. I hadn%u2019t . . .
BB: When%u2013at that time, when you lived in Polkville, and worked in Shelby, there wasn%u2019t a lot of people that had automobiles. Did y%u2019all pool rides into the plant, or was there . . .?
FG: Yeah, uh, my wife rode with %u2013 somebody. They was %u2013 about four or five, I think, that worked at the cloth mill, that she went with %u2013 from Polkville there. And [long pause]%u2013and I%u2013 after I went to work down there, why %u2013 we%u2019s living here in Boiling Springs, when I come back from %u2013 from the Army. We %u2013 my wife %u2013 when I went in service, she moved back down here with her daddy. Johnny Green was her daddy. She %u2013 and her mother died %u2013 and she took care of him. And when I come out of the army, we stayed on with him; he got married again, then we built this house and been living here ever since.
JC: Did um%u2013you say you lived in Boiling Springs, away from the mill that you worked at?
FG: Oh yeah.

FG: No, they%u2019s all %u2013 they%u2019s people from Casar, Lawndale -- all around %u2013 Boiling Springs, and everwhere %u2013 worked at the cloth mill.
BB: Did the cloth mill have a village of any kind?
FG: Yeah.
BB: Did they? They had mills %u2013 they had people living in mill houses, so to speak?
FG: They did. On the, on the %u2013 Gardners were the ones owned it, I think. Max Gardner outfit. They [pause] %u2013 and Stevens bought it from them.
BB: What other mills did they have in Shelby, the Gardner family?
FG: That was the only one they had.
BB: That was the only one.
FG: That I know of. [pause] Dovers had, you know, Esther Mill and Dover Mill and %u2013 they owned three mills %u2013 Dovers. Then they, they the one that had one in Cherryville, I think, the Dovers did.
BB & JC: Mm-mmm.
BB: What kind of recognition, if any, did the Stevenses %u2013 when you went to work--and renovated, and owned it%u2013did they take pretty good care of the employees?
FG: Yeah. That%u2019s one reason I went there, they %u2013 they paid a little more too %u2013 few pennies on . . .
JC: [chuckles] BB: Going back to %u2013 going back to your days at %u2013 Cleveland Cloth, and since you mentioned pennies, do you remember what your %u2013 what was your first paycheck there at the Cleveland Mill, do you remember how many dollars you earned?
FG: Up at Lawndale?
BB: Yeah. I mean Cleveland Mills. That%u2019s %u2013
FG: Cleveland %u2013 Cleveland Mill & Power Company %u2013 the name of it %u2013 they was %u2013 when the eight-hour law went into effect, they passed a law that %u2013 if you worked anybody over forty hours, you had to pay them time and half time.
BB: Ok.
FG: You was working; you remember that.
BB: Right, right.
FG: You ain%u2019t %u2013 how old are you?
BB: I hit seventy this past December.
FG: Oh, you ain%u2019t as old as I thought you were. I thought you were older than that. [Laughter] BB: I remember when the minimum wage went to a dollar %u2013 I was working. I remember that %u2013 in %u201956 %u2013 it went a dollar, the minimum.
FG: Yeah. Uh, you made %u2013 when I went to work at %u2013 in the dye plant up there, if I got forty hours, I made twelve dollars.
BB: Twelve dollars. Ok.
FG: And if I worked over forty hours, why %u2013 I %u2013 they had to pay %u2013 but they wouldn%u2019t let you work over forty hours [Laughter] JC: They didn%u2019t want to pay you that time and a half.
FG: No, no.
JC: So did that take care of all your needs, that twelve dollars?
FG: Oh Lord, yeah. It was worth more than a hundred dollars is now.
JC: Yeah.
FG: I%u2019d say. You could buy %u2013 you could %u2013 well, I bought a new car for six thousand dollars %u2013 the best Ford they was.
JC: Hmm. Did you uh %u2013
FG: The best one Ford %u2013 back then, the top of the line. [Laughter] I think it was %u2013 six thousand, about, I mean %u2013 six hundred dollars %u2013 six hundred. [Laughter] BB: Yeah, six hundred. Yeah.
JC: Six hundred, not six thousand!
BB: In other words, you could . . .
FG: And you can, you can just go by that and know how much twelve dollars was back then. What twelve hundred dollars would have been, just about %u2013 now.
JC: Yeah.
BB: Probably at least that.
JC: At least.
BB: Well now %u2013 in mentioning %u2013 uh, Mrs. Gantt %u2013 Rilla, as we called her, and did you %u2013 you met her, her living in Boiling Springs, and . . .
FG: I lived at Lattimore, at that time.
BB: Yeah. So did y%u2019all meet at the mill, or did . . .
FG: No, no, Lord no! I met her at a party. I forget now where %u2013 anyway, that%u2019s where I first met her, and then %u2013 I started dating her %u2013 and we %u2013 I%u2019d come down here and [pause] see her on weekends. I had a car then %u2013 I%u2019s in %u2013 made enough money, I%u2019d bought me an old car, and I could get around.
JC: Hmmm.
BB: Did many of the family go into textiles? I know a nephew or two of yours, and I know he spent his career in textiles, but he came along a good bit later and all, but did many more of your family go into textiles?
FG: Naw, naw %u2013 Fred, my brother Fred %u2013 he did. [motorcycle goes by] He worked in a mill down here in Gaffney %u2013 I don%u2019t remember what%u2019s the name of the mill was %u2013 that big mill there in Gaffney. And %u2013 but the rest of them %u2013 Carl, he was a carpenter %u2013 he built them apartments out there -- my brother %u2013 for Linton Suttles; that%u2019s the man he was working for, but he built them. [Long pause] BB: The %u2013 textiles choice that you made %u2013 what was the biggest reason you decided to go off the farm into textiles?
FG: Well you didn%u2019t %u2013 at that time %u2013 if you %u2013 that%u2019s about the only thing they was you could do %u2013 farm or work in the mill. That was it. [laughs] JC: Did the textile %u2013 did the %u2013 did the mill pay a lot more than the farm? Could you make a better living at it?
FG: Well, we, we made a good living while we was farming %u2013 I always %u2013 back during the Depression, why %u2013 we went through that, and %u2013 now that%u2019s when the textile people really suffered. They shut the mills down; they wasn%u2019t running back during the Depression. I remember my daddy giving some people that worked at the Dover there %u2013 corn and stuff out of the garden. They%u2019d come up there and he%u2019d %u2013 him %u2013 they suffered %u2013 they didn%u2019t %u2013
BB: How many children in your family, when you . . . .
FG: They was eleven of our kids, our brothers and sisters. But they was %u2013 well, most of my brothers and sisters was done married off when I come along %u2013 me, and Fred, and Carl %u2013 and Madge was the last ones.
BB: So you almost came from two families, then, had younger children and older children. Were the older children involved in farming as you came along?
FG: They farmed up till World War II, and then %u2013 I think %u2013 Oscar still farmed all, all of his life, but some of he%u2019d %u2013 he went to work up there at Lawndale, where I was a-working, and John, that worked at the Ora Mill, he worked at the Dovers.
BB: So there were a few of you that were involved in textiles.
FG: Yeah.
BB: Did %u2013 when, when you were coming along and made the decision to go into textiles, were your parents still involved in farming %u2013 they both still living, or . . .
FG: My daddy died before I went to work in the mill.
BB: Ok.
FG: And mama -- we broke up housekeeping %u2013 she went to live with my my brother. So, I went to %u2013 that%u2019s when I went to work at the mill.
JC: You mentioned that the mills closed down. About how long did they stay closed?
FG: During the Depression.
JC: During the whole time?
FG: No, they%u2019d, they%u2019d run maybe two or three days a week or something.
JC: Something like that? Was that pretty much everywhere around here?
FG: Yeah.
JC: And what %u2013 did people move around, trying to find other jobs back then?
FG: Oh yeah.
JC: What would they try to do?
FG: They%u2019d do anything for %u2013 something %u2013 they%u2019d do anything %u2013 for a meal. They%u2019s people. . . It was rough back then, during the Depression. See, all the banks was closed, they wasn%u2019t no %u2013 ever bank in Cleveland County went bust %u2013 went under. All of them. First National Bank %u2013 it closed. People had money, and they lost it %u2013 money. Bank here in Boiling Springs closed; they was a bank here. Gaffney %u2013 all of them, they closed %u2013 all the banks %u2013 there was a little old branch up there in Lawndale %u2013 it had enough till it stayed open. See, the inspectors come around and closed them %u2013 checked them; they didn%u2019t have the %u2013 they had to have so much in there before they could operate, you know. And they didn%u2019t have it.
JC: So did you have your money in the banks at that time?
FG: [Laughing] I didn%u2019t have none! [Laughter] JC: Didn%u2019t have nothing to put anywhere!
BB: How long did it take for the people to build up their confidences in the bank after that?
FG: Well, they %u2013 I think they, I believe they opened them back up under the government or something; I don%u2019t know how they operate, how they did, but they opened up back up where you could go %u2013 get change, stuff, you know.
BB: The plants, the various textile plants, must have had some kind of bearing on them being able to get back in business, since textiles were a big, the big operation in Cleveland County, and how does they, how does. . .
FG: They was, %u2013 back %u2013 I%u2019d say in my day, that was the most opportunity, if you didn%u2019t have a college education or something; why textile was the only thing you had to look forward to, that or farming.
BB: With it being so important to have employees, what kind of benefits did the company give in regard to encouraging children to go to school and better their education, hoping they may come back, you know, later, and work with them? Was their encouragement much?
FG: You could work in the textile plant if you couldn%u2019t even write your name. It was just work. [laughs] BB: So they didn%u2019t award scholarships, as such, for kids to go to school. How would you compare the family-owned textile businesses in the county with %u2013 I believe you said Stevens had bought out the cloth mill, and renovated it. How does other %u2013 like the Dover group %u2013 how would their benefits compare with Stevens%u2019 benefits?
FG: They was about the same. They wasn%u2019t much difference in it.
JC: Did they treat you any different, if it was more local-owned, like families in the community %u2013 as different from people that would . . .
FG: Well, I, I never did work for Dovers, but they was a good outfit. They employed a lot of people.
BB: After the, the kind of the %u2013 well, the service in %u2013 that you %u2013 duties that you had and the years you spent in service, when you came back, how was the operating of the plant. . .
FG: They was a full running . . .
BB: Full running?
FG: Full blast. Yeah, you didn%u2019t have no trouble getting a job. I mean %u2013 they %u2013 well, you see, everything had been changed over to the Army and everything.
BB: [coughs] Needed all the fabric they could get, then.
FG: Yeah, they . . .
BB: What kind of bearing did %u2013 when you went to work %u2013 if I%u2019ve counted right, you would have probably heard about the union trying to organize in the mid-thirties? Do you remember if anything about the %u2013 hearing anything about that?
FG: I %u2013 I can remember when the union come in here, and Esther Mill, and Dover Mill, and all them, they closed them down. Completely. They %u2013 I don%u2019t know %u2013 they %u2013 mills, they just closed down. And people -- they throwed their stuff out of their houses -- lot of them.
BB: Did they? Hmm.
JC: Is that the people that were supporting the unions?
FG: Union. They %u2013 I remember over there at the Esther Mill, there was two families there that they had their stuff piled on the side of the road.
JC: Was there much . . .
FG: And they hired new people and started back up.
BB: Did they?
FG: And the ones that didn%u2019t go out on the strike, why, they %u2013 they went back to work %u2013 they let them go back %u2013 the ones that went out on that strike, they wouldn%u2019t hire them. That%u2019s why they had to [laughs] move out of their house.
BB: Do you remember how long that period of time would be, how long . . .
FG: That was back %u2013 back %u2013 [long pause] I tell you where you could find out all that, if you go over there at the Star office, or somewhere, and check all the records on that.
BB: Okay.
JC: Did um, was there any violence? Did, was there . . .
FG: Oh, yeah.
JC: Was there, like guns? Somebody said that they had machine guns out on one of the mills.
FG: I always heard that up at Lawndale, that they %u2013 now, they didn%u2019t close down Lawndale, they %u2013 their %u2013 they wouldn%u2019t go along with the union, they wouldn%u2019t strike. And they had a %u2013 they said they had a machine gun up on the mill. I don%u2019t think they did, but %u2013 but they claim they did. I don%u2019t know where they got a machine gun! [Laughter] BB: Going back to the Lawndale Mill . . .
FG: They come through one day, I remember, a truckload %u2013 it%u2019s a big old truck with side planks on it %u2013 and they%u2019s just standing full in there, them union people. And they%u2019s a hollering, and a whooping, and they pulled up in front of the office there and hollered a little bit, but they didn%u2019t get out of that truck. They said they%u2019s somebody up on top of the mill with guns.
BB: With guns?
FG: And they see them up there, and they had orders to shoot them if they got off of that truck, but they didn%u2019t get %u2013 they pulled out and left.
BB: Yeah, well mentioning that -- the bank operated %u2013 continued to operate in Lawndale, and the mill ran good, and the union didn%u2019t shut them down %u2013 what would you think is the reason for that happening %u2013 and, of course, we know when they later closed down, it was because all the other plants closed down, but what distinguished them, that would be different from any of the other [cell phone rings] plants in the community?
FG: I %u2013 I don%u2019t know. [pauses] I don%u2019t know what %u2013 really what your question was.
BB: What, uh %u2013 Lawndale had to be a good community, and the bank was solid, and I%u2019m assuming that the %u2013 that the plant had a big factor in the bank being successful. So what %u2013 what kinda made the Lawndale bank and mill community stand out different from some of these others?
FG: Well, the people that worked there %u2013 they just didn%u2019t believe in union and [laughs] I reckon that%u2019s all that was . . .
BB: Well, was the success of the plant operating the type folks they had running it?
FG: Yep.
JC: Was it a tight knit community up in Lawndale? Like a close community?
FG: Oh, yeah. They%u2019s %u2013 they %u2013 most of the hands there been working all their life. Their younguns were %u2013 wanted to grow up, and they worked there. But that was one of the oldest %u2013 I reckon %u2013 the oldest mill %u2013 I can remember when they built the Dover mill. Then %u2013 Dover and the Ora Mill %u2013 I can remember when they built that. My uncle planed the lumber for all the houses that went in them mill houses; they built the homes for the people that worked there. They built houses. He had %u2013 my uncle had a planer. He come down there and set it up, down there at %u2013 below our house, and they%u2019d haul that lumber up there, and he planed it, and haul it back down there. We just lived about a mile or two up above the mill there. Dover Mill.
JC: Was %u2013 let me ask you this: Do you ever remember anybody, like, playing jokes on each other, or tricks on each other, in the mills?
FG: Well, they had . . .
JC: Or playing tricks on the boss man, or . . .
FG: You didn%u2019t play no tricks on the boss man! [Laughter] JC: Well, what about each other %u2013 other workers and stuff?
FG: Oh yeah, they%u2019d %u2013 always joking and carrying on.
JC: What kind of stuff would they do?
FG: [pause] I don%u2019t know. They didn%u2019t allow much of that to go on; they didn%u2019t %u2013 no foolishness, nothing like that. So they was %u2013 afraid you%u2019d get hurt, or something.
JC: Yeah.
BB: The mill %u2013 when you went to work at Lawndale %u2013 already had electricity; they didn%u2019t generate their own electricity, or did they generate it?
FG: They had a power plant. They had %u2013 they made most of their electricity, but they had other %u2013 I mean, they had other electricity %u2013 Duke Power %u2013 but they, they made part of their . . .
BB: Since the situation around us is like it is, would they have been a possibility that they could have still generated their power if they had been experiencing the dry spell that we are here, with the river being down?
FG: Well, they %u2013 couldn%u2019t a %u2013 if the river%u2019d been like it was, they%u2019d a had to shut down, they couldn%u2019t a. . .
BB: Wouldn%u2019t been able to get enough water to . . .
FG: They had to have the water before they could make any power. They had a dam built, and %u2013 so it wouldn%u2019t a been long %u2013 back like it was there when this river dried up nearly, you know, over here in Shelby. They%u2019s times it quit running, here two or three year ago. Sandy Run Creek over here, it didn%u2019t . . . it dried up.
BB: Mm-mmm.
FG: . . . quit running.
BB: Well, on the other side, was there a time that you remember, either seeing or them talking about, houses being in danger, with the water being too high?
FG: No, I never did %u2013 never was a time where it was too high.
JC: No flood %u2013 no flooding or anything?
FG: Huh-uh, no.
BB: That%u2019s good.
JC: Yeah. [laughs] BB: We wondered about it, and looking through the village %u2013 we were able to look through the village recently and go down to Double Shoals, and we were wondering if there was some of the houses, as close as they were to the river, any of them. . .
FG: I never %u2013 I never heard tell of no flooding.
BB: Uh-huh.
FG: And that dye plant, it was built right on the edge of the water from the river. It was %u2013 it%u2019s almost running up against the side of the wall.
BB: With your experience in slashing, you got to see all that they dyed, with the various warps, with having patterns and all. What kinda comparison would the number of colors they was in fabrics you were slashing, when you were at the Lawndale, how would the number compare with how many colors was in the warps after you got to Cleveland Cloth? In other words, were there a lot more now than there were back then, or . . .
FG: I reckon they %u2013 they would dye, up there %u2013 any color you wanted; they was %u2013 they was %u2013 what they was %u2013 what we dyed at Lawndale was yarn and stuff like that. And then %u2013 cloth mill %u2013 they, mostly they run was -- hadn%u2019t ever been dyed %u2013 it was dyed after the cloth was made.
JC: You . . .
BB: So the %u2013 I%u2019m sorry . . .
JC: No, go ahead.
BB: The dyeing, then, wasn%u2019t done at Cleveland Cloth.
FG: Huh-uh, no.
BB: They didn%u2019t %u2013 but I believe you mentioned that.
FG: I don%u2019t know -- I run a lotta warps with stripes in it, with a color. You lay it %u2013 you had to lay it in a frame there, and you have so many strings going through red, and then maybe a blue one %u2013 I made %u2013 I%u2019ve run material to make ties out of %u2013 when I worked at the cloth mill. Made warps %u2013 they run to make a tie -- ties out of.
BB: During your years at the Cleveland Cloth and running slasher, did you see much %u2013 what was the difference you saw in the speed the slasher run when you first started there versus when you retired?
FG: Oh [laughs] a lotta difference. When I first went over there, they had all old looms, and they switched over and %u2013 Sulzer bought them, Sulzer from Germany.
JC: Uh-huh.
FG: And they, they doubled the speed. You could %u2013 you couldn%u2019t see them old looms, you couldn%u2019t see how %u2013 you couldn%u2019t see it move, with standing looking at it. But when they put them Sulzer looms in, why, you could look at it and just see it moving like that. That thing was flying. [Laughter] BB: What was the feeling toward %u2013 and I want you to elaborate on this, and not just, you know %u2013 and think about it all you need to think about it %u2013 during the years prior to our closing of all the textile mills, would your feelings be that we were trying to compete all that time? Do you feel that we, uh %u2013 did you notice any feelings that folks foresaw the end of textiles in their area?
FG: Well, I %u2013 I think that was the biggest mistake our government ever made, when they %u2013 whatever they call it, this trade %u2013
BB: The NAFTA? NAFTA?
FG: And that%u2019s when %u2013 textile %u2013 where they was paying us %u2013 where they was paying here %u2013 I don%u2019t know how much they was having to pay, when they closed them, but they could make %u2013 get help in Mexico, and China, for %u2013 nothing, nearly.
JC: Mm-mmm.
FG: Ten cents a hour.
BB: Mm-mmm.
FG: And %u2013 just think at the jobs we lost. They was at least %u2013 I believe it was 700 people worked over there at the cloth mill. Dovers, they had %u2013 no telling how many worked for the Dovers. They had three or four mills. All them people lost their jobs.
BB: Well, the statement has been made that if the raw material had been given to the plants, that the plants couldn%u2019t have operated competitively, it was just the labor costs. Is that pretty much the way you saw it, that uh %u2013
FG: Yeah, that%u2019s what it is. They %u2013 they could get cheap labor, and that%u2019s where they went where they could get the cheapest labor.
BB: You%u2019ve been able to see fabrics and shirts and jeans and everything that%u2019s come from overseas. What would be your comparison on the quality and the longevity of what we buy now in the store? Would the quality be better?
FG: Well %u2013 I, I think I%u2019d rather buy American-made stuff if I had my choice about it, but you can%u2019t %u2013 you couldn%u2019t find none, I don%u2019t guess, now. It%u2019s made in . . .
JC: That%u2019s true; it%u2019s hard to find it. Did you go to church growing up?
FG: Go to church?
JC: Church growing up?
FG: Yeah.
JC: Yeah? And, when you went into the mills, what churches did you go to?
FG: I went to Polkville Baptist Church. We %u2013 we %u2013 moved our letter up there %u2013 Polkville Baptist.
JC: What about here in Boiling Springs?
FG: Oh, when I moved to Boiling Springs, I moved down here to First Baptist in Boiling Springs.
JC: Did the churches seem to help the mills out? And the mill folks %u2013 the folks that worked in the mills %u2013 how close was that?
FG: Now %u2013 they didn%u2019t %u2013 church was like mills, they didn%u2019t get no money either. They %u2013 you know how that was %u2013 people didn%u2019t have no money to pay the church [laughs]. They wasn%u2019t no. . . preachers, I guess a lot of preachers, they %u2013 the members give them eggs and chickens and stuff. That was back during the Depression.
JC: Did you notice that, if the mills %u2013 the mill owners built some of the churches around the mill villages?
FG: I don%u2019t know.
JC: What did %u2013 what%u2019d y%u2019all for fun when you weren%u2019t working?
FG: We played ball and %u2013 just what kids do now.
JC: [laughs] About the same thing?
FG: About the same thing.
JC: Did you, did you ever play much ball yourself?
FG: Nope. Just yard ball. We had a team; we%u2019d play in the pasture [laughs], have a rock for bases.
BB: Tape a ball.
FG: Yeah.
BB: Tape some yarn and make you a ball?
FG: Yeah.
BB: You were pretty active, I guess, %u2013 I don%u2019t remember [sirens in background] the exact year that the park was built in Shelby. As I understood it, it was built initially for the county %u2013 for use of the people in the county?
FG: What %u2013 what?
BB: The park over at Shelby.
FG: Oh, yeah.
BB: And now, they kinda %u2013 well, they call it the %u201CCity Park,%u201D but initially it was for people in the county, as I understood.
FG: I don%u2019t remember.
BB: I know county folks used it, but . . .
FG: Oh, yeah.
BB: . . . but it %u2013 that%u2019s something that, that we were wondering, if it was actually %u201CThe City Park,%u201D as it%u2019s called now, or it was for folks in the county? Because it would be kinda centrally located there in Shelby.
FG: I think it was the %u2013 the county used it %u2013 I know that. But I don%u2019t know %u2013 it belonged to Shelby. They%u2019s the one built it.
BB: What was your family%u2019s participation in the park %u2013 swimming, or did you go to ballgames over there, or . . .
FG: Went to ballgames, all I ever remember about. [pause] JC: Did y%u2019all %u2013 go ahead. I%u2019m sorry.
FG: Didn%u2019t use it much. [laughs] Didn%u2019t have time %u2013 was working!
BB: Cost money, too!
FG: Yeah.
BB: Now, you have Kenneth, your son %u2013 he followed you in textiles, in one sense of the word %u2013 right %u2013 that he %u2013 didn%u2019t he %u2013 doesn%u2019t he work in, in textiles. . . ?
FG: He worked at Fiber, down there, for %u2013 I believe about eighteen year. But he changed down to that %u2013 there at Grover, where they make these records, discs %u2013
BB: Yeah, make the discs?
FG: He%u2019s been down there for %u2013 I don%u2019t know how long.
BB: So in one sense of the word, he was involved in textiles, too, so there was another generation. Which brings to mind, your %u2013 your folks older in your family were not involved in textiles.
FG: Not %u2013 no.
BB: So you really would be -- with you and Kenneth, be %u2013 two generations that were involved in textiles.
FG: [long pause] My daddy farmed all his life.
JC: Hmmm.
BB: What was the impact on %u2013 by him farming, he farmed some with cotton, I think %u2013 did he raise some cotton?
FG: Who?
BB: Your dad.
FG: Yeah, that%u2019s, that was our main money %u2013 cotton. We planted cotton.
JC: Did the prices %u2013 did the Depression make the cotton prices go down?
FG: Oh, yeah.
JC: And that really forced you into the mills, or %u2013
FG: No.
JC: No?
FG: No, I didn%u2019t %u2013 I was %u2013 the Depression was over with when %u2013 see, I was just %u2013 the Depression hit %u201929 %u2013 when it %u2013 see, I wasn%u2019t but %u2013 I was born in 1913 . . .
JC: You was about sixteen.
FG: Huh?
JC: About sixteen?
FG: Yeah. But I can remember it mighty well. But when I went to work in the mill, why, things was going pretty good, then.
JC: Hmm.
BB: Do you remember your dad talking about, or hearing other people talk about, where the cotton that was raised in Cleveland County went? Was it used in the county?
FG: It was %u2013 yeah, mills bought it %u2013 part of it %u2013 I don%u2019t know what the market was, but %u2013 Dovers, they run a lot of cotton in their mill.
BB: So really, after the family took it to the cotton gin, you didn%u2019t worry about where it went; you just wanted your %u2013
FG: We raised it, put it in %u2013 baled it up in 500 pound bales, and %u2013
BB: Was there ever a difference in the amount that your dad got for selling his cotton %u2013 was there ever anything said about the quality of it? %u201CWe can give you more, because this meets these standards?%u201D
FG: They %u2013 some cotton pulled, stretched further than other, but %u2013 only difference I know is when that Depression hit, cotton went to five cents a pound. I remember us selling cotton for five cent.
JC: Hmm.
FG: And we was getting forty cent %u2013 thirty and forty %u2013
BB: So if your dad heard, %u201CWell, we%u2019re getting thirty-five cent a pound at the gin,%u201D and you go, it didn%u2019t matter what your cotton was, if it had long fibers, or the color was gray %u2013
FG: They wasn%u2019t no difference much in it %u2013 might have been a penny or something a pound %u2013 I don%u2019t remember about that; it%u2019s been so long.
BB: Did you get to see the difference in the cotton, the quality of cotton, how much trash was in it and so forth, with hand-picked versus machine-picked?
FG: No, that %u2013 they wasn%u2019t no machine-picked cotton back when I farmed. [laughter] They wasn%u2019t %u2013 you picked it with your hands; they wasn%u2019t no machine to it.
BB: The trash in the cotton came about because of the machines and the way they did it.
JC: Hmm.
FG: I don%u2019t know about that, for they wasn%u2019t no cotton pickers when I farmed.
JC: Did y%u2019all ever go to the Cleveland County Fair?
FG: Oh, yeah. Went ever year.
JC: Did you go when you were farming?
FG: Yeah.
JC: Did y%u2019all bring stuff up there? What kind of events and activities did they have at the fair, for farmers?
FG: It was about the same things been ever year you%u2019ve been %u2013 a fair hadn%u2019t changed any.
JC: [Laughter] It ain%u2019t changed any at all?
FG: No. They have about the same they show %u2013 the fair, the last time I went there, it was about the same as it was the first time I went. Just different animals, and [long pause] I hadn%u2019t been %u2013 the last time I went %u2013 I hadn%u2019t been since Kenneth got where he could go by himself. [laughs] BB: Really? [Laughter] JC: Wasn%u2019t no point in going if it%u2019s going to be the same, right?
FG: Well, I %u2013 I never did care too much about it after I got up, got grown, but we went ever year when I%u2019s a kid.
BB: What was the, what was the most [coughing] %u2013 I don%u2019t know what the term would be, I guess %u201Cexhilarating%u201D ride that you had back then? What caught everybody%u2019s attention more %u2013 the ferris wheel, the merry-go-round, or did they have some kinda hydroplane, or . . .
FG: I guess ferris wheel, probably most people rode. [Long pause] JC: Um %u2013 well, when you %u2013 [siren in background] what%u2019s the biggest changes you think have happened since you were young, growing up and now, in how people are, you know, how they live their lives?
FG: That%u2019s %u2013 a pretty hard question.
JC: [laughs] That%u2019s a big one, ain%u2019t it?
FG: My . . . [long pause] JC: What kinda changes have you seen that are%u2013 you think have made life easier on folks, nowadays?
FG: Oh, yeah, well, it%u2019s a lot easier. You didn%u2019t have %u2013 I can remember when the first automobiles and things %u2013 I remember my %u2013 one of my uncles was a preacher, and he come to our house, and little old car %u2013 didn%u2019t have no top on it, it just had a little motor %u2013 that thing was just pecking along. [Laughter] JC: Did it scare you?
FG: No, I wasn%u2019t scared %u2013 didn%u2019t scare me %u2013 but %u2013 I knew what it was. I seen it coming out the road.
JC: Hmm.
BB: President Roosevelt came to Cleveland County sometime in the forties, and we were wondering if Highway 74, at that time, was paved?
FG: I can %u2013 I remember when it was paved, but I don%u2019t know what year it was. I can remember driving on it before it was paved. [laughs] A-Model Ford %u2013 it was like a washboard %u2013 ah, that thing was rough! [Laughter] But when it was paved, the first time it was paved, it was cement, instead of . . .
BB: Asphalt?
FG: . . . cement; no, it was cut blocks, before it was ( )
JC: Huh.
BB: Now I can remember the cement road, and, of course, they%u2019ve come back to that some on the interstates; so chances are that it was paved when he came by %u2013 came through, or they probably would have routed him somewhere . . .
FG: Oh, yeah, if he come through here, it musta been . . .
JC: Did y%u2019all ever kill hogs much when y%u2019all were young?
FG: We raised our own meat %u2013 chickens, and cows, so %u2013 we raised most stuff we eat, all but %u2013 mama%u2019d sell enough eggs and butter to buy coffee and sugar, so we didn%u2019t suffer like some people during the Depression. We canned stuff, killed two or three big old hogs . . .
BB: Did the plant have a cannery for the people? Did %u2013 some plants had canneries where the folks, in the summertime, when their garden made, they could come and . . .
FG: I never did it. They had a cannery here in Boiling Springs. It was %u2013 out there, about behind where the water tank is there.
BB: Was the cannery the building that later became the recreation department, or recreation building %u2013 they had dinners there, and some of the various civic clubs met there?
FG: I think it was.
BB: The same building? Uh %u2013 ok %u2013 well, it%u2019s kinda going away from what we talked about earlier, but it comes to mind that we had a plant of some kind here in Boiling Springs, which is still standing down here on Main Street. What fabric was made, or what type mill was that?
FG: It was a hosiery mill.
BB: Hosiery mill?
FG: And then they turned it into a yarn mill after the hosiery mill %u2013 it went to Kings Mountain. They closed this one down there, then opened up Kings Mountain. Rilla worked down there in that hosiery mill. And then when they went to Kings Mountain, she went down there and worked, before we was married.
BB: Ok. So this would have been a hosiery mill in the thirties %u2013 1930%u2019s %u2013 and then it became a yarn mill. Was it a yarn mill %u2013 was it one that the %u2013
FG: Dovers operated it.
BB: That%u2019s what I was wondering.
JC: So they had a, they had, did they have the biggest operation in the county, you think, the Dovers?
FG: Biggest textile operation.
BB: With the plants Dovers had, %u2013 and this one just mentioned, in Boiling Springs %u2013 they probably had three or four thousand people, combined.
FG: Oh, yeah. They had a big plant in Cherryville, and then they had one there on 150 %u2013 you know where . . .
BB: Buffalo Mill?
FG: Yeah, Buffalo, and then, Esther Mill was theirs, the Dover Mill, and %u2013 what was that other one across the creek %u2013 across from the Dover?
BB: Uh, the Dora %u2013 the Ora.
JC: The Ora, Ora.
FG: Ora Mill.
BB: Ok, do you remember when the Ella Mill was in operation? They had the Ella Mill at one time.
FG: Did they %u2013 I didn%u2019t know the Dovers had it. I didn%u2019t know that.
BB: Right, yeah. They later sold it, but we understand that they had it . . .
JC: They had that at one time.
BB: . . . they may have built it; I think they might have built that one.
FG: Well, I didn%u2019t know, I didn%u2019t know about it.
BB: In talking with other, other friends, and other folks that you knew through the years, that worked at other plants, where was, where do you remember folks saying %u2013 if they would tell you %u2013 where do remember the highest paid jobs being?
FG: The plants that paid the highest jobs?
BB: Yeah, like a loom fixer is typically a good paying job.
FG: Well, our loom fixers, they %u2013 was about the highest paid loom fixer there was, and then . . .
BB: Did you know any slasher tenders that worked at Dover, that you might could%u2019ve compared what you made as a slasher tender with what they earned? What relationship would it have been?
FG: I think I made about five cent more on the hour than they was paying. I was sort of the %u2013 I made a %u2013 I believe, I don%u2019t know %u2013 six or seven cents a hour more than the other boys that was in there. I was sort of the %u2013 well, I run all the samples, and they called me the %u201Cman over the slasher room.%u201D I wasn%u2019t no boss man when I worked, but I . . .
BB: You was the lead slasher tender?
FG: Yeah.
JC: You just, you had the seniority over . . .
FG: Well, and I knowed how to do more than the rest of them, for I%u2019d been a-doing it longer than they had.
JC: Right.
FG: I knowed what %u2013 how it %u2013 went.
BB: In thinking back, kinda in regard to that, when you left Cleveland Mills and came over there and learned to do the slashing, did you feel proud that you had made that move? Do you think that you woulda ever done as well . . .
FG: I left %u2013 I was receiving clerk up at Lawndale. I had a office. When I went to the cloth mill, I made about as much money as I was a-making. But it was so much cleaner operation there. That thing, they kept that place just like a living room. The floors %u2013 hardwood floors %u2013 and everything, and . . .
BB: What, some of the plants used a lot of cotton . . .
FG: Yeah.
BB: . . . and some used a lot of synthetic, and %u2013 what . . .
FG: We didn%u2019t have that cotton dust. We had synthetic; they wasn%u2019t no dust. We run nylon %u2013 lot of nylon, and . . .
BB: How would you compare the cleanliness over the nylon with any other synthetic you had? They didn%u2019t have to have the cleaners like they did in carding, where they%u2019s carding cotton.
FG: They didn%u2019t. Nylon, rayon, stuff like that %u2013 was clean; they wasn%u2019t no %u2013 did not %u2013 wasn%u2019t no dust, or nothing, flying from it. It was %u2013 they%u2019s a lot of difference in them.
BB: How would you compare . . .
FG: I went around to a lot of their mills, Stevens mills, down there in South Carolina where they run cotton. See they had cotton plants, where they run cotton and stuff. And they was %u2013 it was a lot of difference.
BB: How would you compare the quality that was expected of you %u2013when you came close to the end of your working days? Had they improved, or kinda tightened down the screws, did they want you to put out better quality?
FG: Oh, yeah, that was the main thing. That%u2019s %u2013 if %u2013 on the slasher room, if I laid one thread in the wrong place, when I was laying that in there to run it on the slasher %u2013 one thread out of five or six hundreds, or thousands, why it%u2019d make seconds.
BB: So you had to be real careful . . .
FG: Yeah.
BB: . . . in having the right rank, and all. On the slashers that you ran, did you have single warps, or did you ever run any that you had like a top warp or a bottom warp on the slasher, or did you just make one warp at a time?
FG: We had a top yarn and bottom yarn that you had different size in it, and you had it run %u2013 you know when it goes in that loom, it%u2019d %u2013 you had to have the %u2013 size on it, to keep it from breaking. And we had -- I don%u2019t %u2013 I%u2019ve run a lot of that double-decker.
BB: So you had a top warp and a bottom warp, then. Typically, though, you%u2019d have. . .
FG: No, they run together on, in the front . . .
BB: Right.
FG: . . . but they come through a different size box back there, when it come off the [clears throat] beams, back corner on the slasher.
BB: Would you, would you have %u2013 you mentioned top warp and bottom warp %u2013 would you have a different . . .
FG: That was different kind of yarns; that was like if you%u2019s running two different kind of yarns%u2013 running it in one warp; it all went in the same warp when it come off the slasher.
BB: Oh, ok. But you wouldn%u2019t run two types of %u2013 a size %u2013 at the same time; if you were what you called the top warp, you had top warp size, and you . . .
FG: No.
BB: . . . run the bottom warp . . .
FG: Bottom size.
BB: Ok.
FG: But when it come off the slasher, it all went in the same warp.
JC: Hmm.
BB: How many ends %u2013 we call them %u201Cends%u201D in textiles %u2013 how many was the most ends you remember having in a warp?
FG: I can%u2019t remember.
BB: Did you have as much as two thousand? Would you think?
FG: Oh, yeah. More than that, I guess.
BB: What was the typical yarn count on your warps? Uh, what %u2013 did they go by denier?
FG: See, it%u2019s been, it%u2019s been so long till I don%u2019t remember that stuff.
JC: [chuckles] BB: But it was probably pretty fine, I%u2019d think, wouldn%u2019t it?
FG: Oh, yeah. Some of it was real fine.
JC: What kind of stuff would they turn what you were making, into? What kinda . . .
FG: It wasn%u2019t %u2013 we made stuff %u2013 make shirts, sheets, pillowcases, everything. We -- [clears throat and pauses] All kinda stuff. Now we didn%u2019t %u2013 weren%u2019t nothing like these pants, or anything. [laughs] BB: Who were the customers that ended up buying your fabric? Do you remember mention of any of them? Levi Strauss or . . .
FG: I don%u2019t know who they %u2013 see, that was all down in %u2013 South Carolina, down there where their headquarters was. We just made it, and . . .
BB: Shipped it out.
FG: . . . shipped it out. I didn%u2019t know where it went.
JC: About what year did you retire?
FG: I retired when I%u2019s sixty-five, and I%u2019m ninety-five now.
JC: So, thirty years ago, you retired. [pause] BB: %u201978.
JC: 1978. [pause] BB: The year you retired . . .
FG: That%u2019s when, that%u2019s when the cloth mill closed.
BB: The year you retired . . .
FG: About six months after I retired, they %u2013 they went to tearing them looms out and shipping them to South Carolina. I know I went back over there one day and just thought I%u2019d go in the mill and say %u201Chello%u201D to them, and I went in there, and they was %u2013 I didn%u2019t know they%u2019s doing it; they%u2019s closing that place down.
JC: What happened to the people when they closed? Like . . .
FG: [laughs] Went somewhere else %u2013 got them a job somewhere. Some of them went to the Dover, some of them went, moved to South Carolina.
BB: Cliffside.
FG: Yeah . . .
JC: Was the . . . ?
FG: . . . some of them went to Cliffside, and that mill up %u2013 them other%u2019s %u2013 up, uh %u2013 what was them other mills at Cliffside?
BB: Yeah, the %u2013 Hanes %u2013 the weaving plant %u2013 the jacquard plant, the weaving plant. Did uh . . .
FG: Yeah, there%u2019s one of the slasher men went up %u2013 or %u2013 no, at Cliffside, on above Cliffside, up there %u2013 that mill.
JC: Henrietta, or . . .
BB: Wasn%u2019t named Lovelace, was it? Hoyt Lovelace?
FG: Hoyt?
BB: Yeah, yeah, we know Hoyt.
FG: He was the boss man, wasn%u2019t he?
BB: He was %u2013 I understand, at the cloth mill, but he was the slasher tender at . . .
FG: Well, he was the slasher tender, and they moved him up. One of the boss men over the preparation department retired, and they give him the job. He%u2019s the boss man there at the cloth mill. . . .
JC: Hm.
FG: . . . for a year or two.
BB: Yeah. Did, did uh %u2013 you were saying that you went over to speak them, and they was closing it down. Did the folks that came out today thought they had a job going back tomorrow, and it was shut down that quick? Or did I . . .
FG: No, no, it took them six months to close that thing down.
BB: Oh, so people knew that it was gonna be shut %u2013 it wasn%u2019t like they closed it . . .
FG: Yeah, it %u2013 you see %u2013 they%u2019d take out the [clears throat] %u2013 they%u2019d shut down %u2013 they had -- them looms %u2013 you take, one of them warps would run for months, some of them . . .
BB: Uh-huh.
FG: . . . they%u2019s %u2013 they [clears throat] %u2013 that took a long time to close that down. They was a year, I guess, really closing it down. [loud motorcycle noise in background] JC: So, did the company have retirement, at that point? Did they offer retirement to people?
FG: Oh, they started about two or three year before I retired, started our retirement plan, but they didn%u2019t have it for %u2013 I had a little %u2013 retirement.
JC: Been good if they%u2019d offered that a lot earlier [laughs]!
FG: Oh, yeah, it%u2019d been like they%u2019s paying when I %u2013 when, what they%u2019s paying me there the last two or three year I worked, why, I%u2019d been %u201Csetting jay%u201D [clears throat]. I%u2019ve drawed seventy-two dollars a month from them, ever since I retired. [laughs] JC: Yeah.
FG: Well, when I retired, seventy-two dollars, why, that%u2019d pay my light bill and stuff like that.
BB: If you%u2019d been a snuff dipper, you coulda paid for that. [Laughter] FG: I%u2019s -- tobacco %u2013 I could buy my tobacco, I%u2019s %u2013 chewed tobacco.
BB: Yeah.
FG: It don%u2019t sound like much now, but that was pretty %u2013 that%u2019s a whole lotta money, when I retired. Seventy-two dollars coming in ever month!
BB: Hmm.
JC: Yeah.
FG: That was about what most people was a-making in a week!
JC: [laughs] That was good money then, wasn%u2019t it?
BB: Would textiles be the route you would go now, if you had it all to go over? You feel close enough to textiles to . . .
FG: I enjoyed it. It was nice. [long pause] You wouldn%u2019t get rich a-working %u2013 well, of course, ain%u2019t nobody, no %u2013 if you working for another man, you ain%u2019t %u2013 long as you work for another man, you ain%u2019t gonna get rich! [Laughter] JC: That%u2019s right.
FG: You gonna get in business yourself and get somebody else a-working for you, then you start making some money. [Laughter] But you could make a good living working in %u2013 textile plant.
JC: It provided all you needed, at least, right?
FG: Yes, sir.
BB: You remember the twelve dollars a week, when you started . . .
FG: Yeah.
BB: Do you remember your last %u2013 were you still being paid by the week, or two weeks, or month, when you retired?
FG: I%u2019s still paying by the week, but I can%u2019t remember what it was [laughs], what I%u2019s making, about %u2013 I guess %u2013 I%u2019d got up to where I%u2019s making close to %u2013 slasher man %u2013 I%u2019s making close to a hundred dollars a week, I guess, somewhere around there. [long pause] BB: Ok. Was the turnover %u2013 did you have much turnover at the plant?
FG: Huh-uh.
BB: Most people stayed there.
FG: Yeah.
JC: They had to keep their job.
FG: When I retired -- they%u2019d stay there till they retired. I know some of the elder people retired before I did. They%u2019d retire, and %u2013 I%u2019d look up two or three months, and I%u2019d see them coming down the spare floor. I%u2019d say, %u201CWhat in the world%u2019s he doing coming in there this early in the morning?%u201D He come back to work! [Laughter] BB: Had he?
FG: Yeah, he%u2019d come back. I told him, I said, %u201CBoy, when you see me go out that door,%u201D I says, %u201Cyou won%u2019t see me a-coming back in here, when I retire!%u201D [Laughter] And Bill Palmer, personnel man %u2013 you might %u2013
BB: I remember the name, yeah.
FG: . . . you remember Bill Palmer. He%u2019s %u2013 he %u2013 I%u2019s out about two weeks, and he called me. Well, he said, %u201CHow about coming back and help us out? Somebody%u2019s out sick, and we%u2019re needing somebody to %u2013 help us out.%u201D I said, %u201CBill, I can%u2019t come back.%u201D [Laughter] But I%u2019d a like to went back, but I %u2013 [laughs] BB: It wasn%u2019t the fact that you didn%u2019t, you didn%u2019t . . .
FG: I didn%u2019t feel like they did after I %u2013 you know, after you%u2019ve been on a job that long, why, it%u2019s fine there for about three weeks, but I got tired of loafing around and going to the Snack Shop! [Laughter] I was ready to go back to work, but I never did go back. They called me a dozen times after that.
JC: Did you find enough to keep you busy, then?
FG: Huh?
JC: You found enough to keep you busy the last thirty years.
FG: Yeah, uh, finally got %u2013 make me a big garden back there. I%u2019m working that. And after Bill Beason come back up here and bought that %u2013 he had a shop back there, you know? And I got to going over there and making stuff, and I got interested in that, and I%u2019d %u2013 it%u2019s just like a job to me. I%u2019d go over there every day and make %u2013 I made that clock. I made a %u2013 cabinet in there in the kitchen, and %u2013 oh Lord, I %u2013 stuff I give away, that I made. It%u2019s just a hobby I had.
BB: You stayed active after you retired, then.
FG: Yeah.
BB: I%u2019m gonna do that, one of these days. I%u2019m gonna get active. [Laughter] JC: So you like doing woodwork then.
FG: Yeah. I enjoyed that.
JC: Is it something you had done earlier in life?
FG: No, I never had! [laughs] JC: Or just something you picked up?
FG: Just %u2013 I went over there, and he %u2013 he would let %u2013 he worked for Broyhill; he was over about three or four mills %u2013 them Broyhill mills. Bill %u2013 he knowed I%u2019d make anything. That chair is one they made; it was a %u201Csecond.%u201D And he give it %u2013 I%u2019s up there before he retired %u2013 he give me that chair. [laughs] JC: Huh.
FG: He said it was a %u201Csecond.%u201D They . . .
JC: Can%u2019t see nothing wrong with it, myself. [Laughter] FG: I couldn%u2019t see anything wrong with it! You know, them inspectors could spot anything.
JC: Sort of like how you could see it in a piece of cloth.
FG: Yeah.
JC: Yeah.
BB: The cloth plant ceased operations, and nobody else bought out and started up anything else in there, or . . .
FG: Yeah, they was a boat %u2013 they was a boat outfit in there for several years.
BB: A boat plant?
FG: In that plant over there. [Pause] Boys, I got to wee-wee a little.
BB: Well, ok. [chuckling] FG: (When) I have to go, I have to go.
BB: Hey, I understand that.
JC: Go ahead. [Long pause %u2013 recorder is turned off] FG: . . . it was good then. They was [pause] they wasn%u2019t nobody got rich working in the mill, but they made a good living.
JC: You think they%u2019ve suffered some since then?
FG: Huh?
JC: I mean, you think it%u2019s hurt the county since . . .
FG: Oh Lord, I reckon! It%u2019s looking %u2013 thousands of jobs %u2013 people %u2013 good jobs.
BB: Let me ask you one thing about that in the closing down. Was there ever a time that you felt like when people began to see textiles kinda closing down, and they%u2019d talk about %u201Cpoor, pitiful textiles %u2013 what are they gonna do?%u201D %u2013 did you ever feel that %u201Chey folks, it ain%u2019t gonna be just textiles, they%u2019s gonna be other things that are shut down because textiles shut down%u201D %u2013 did you feel that way?
FG: Yeah, I thought%u2013 I thought it%u2019d be worse than what it has been when . . .
BB: There%u2019s a lot of areas that%u2019s been affected %u2013 like those folks that supplied the yarn we use . . .
FG: Oh yeah.
BB: . . . the people that supplied the starch, and the size, and the harnesses, and the shuttles and . . .
JC: . . . the machines, um hmm.
BB: . . . the oil, and the gears, and the pulleys, and the sprockets %u2013 so there%u2019s a lot of them has been affected.
FG: I tell you %u2013 some of these here rug mills is still running, but they got a loom %u2013 these looms out %u2013 old looms out of the mills, and you could %u2013 Harvey, over there, I think he%u2019s still making rugs. You could go over there and see one a-running. It%u2019s the same operation . . .
BB: Um hmm.
FG: . . . only making these throw rugs and harness -- saddle blankets, and things like that.
BB: I think Harvey%u2019s closed down. I think he%u2019s finally retired. But now, Bill Pearson . . .
FG: His boy still operates that thing.
BB: Oh does he? OK . . .
FG: Yeah.
BB: . . . well, I didn%u2019t realize that.
FG: Harvey, he don%u2019t %u2013 he ain%u2019t able, you know, he had, uh . . .
BB: Yeah. Well, we can visit over there, then, if he%u2019s still in operation.
FG: I think he is, now . . .
BB: We%u2019ll check it out. I%u2019m glad you mentioned that.
FG: You could see one %u2013 you could get an idea how it was. Of course, they ain%u2019t a-making no cloth, but %u2013 it%u2019s doing the same thing, on a loom.
BB: Uh-huh. [pause] OK.
JC: Well . . .
BB: . . . get us in and let him just see these processes. It%u2019s kind of like driving a car, as far as I was concerned %u2013 you can read all about how to drive, but till you get under the steering wheel, you don%u2019t do it. And so, Jeff will be able to learn some things better when he sees it.
FG: Oh yeah, Lordy . . .
JC: I mean, I%u2019ve seen videos, and I%u2019ve been in one place, but I didn%u2019t know what was going on when I was in there [laughing].
BB: Yeah, yeah.
JC: So, you know %u2013 now, having somebody explain it be even better.
FG: That%u2019d be worth anybody%u2019s time that never had been in a cotton mill, to go in and see a loom %u2013 see that thing.
BB: We hear things about technology and all this today, that you gotta be a highly technical person to run various jobs, so wouldn%u2019t you think that the textile people were highly technical folks?
FG: Lord, they %u2013 uh, carried %u2013 a lot of people went to China and Mexico and learnt them people how to operate. They was people went with over there, they come back, they paid them enough money till they come back here and retired.
JC: Yeah.
BB: So your feelings on folks that worked in textiles %u2013 had there been highly technical jobs around here then %u2013 they could have been trained %u2013 they had the capabilities of being trained to run anything that come along.
FG: Yeah.
BB: Okay.
FG: Sure, they could %u2013 people %u2013 they uh %u2013 [long pause] BB: Well, Flay, we%u2019ve been kinda talking maybe an hour and a half, and that%u2019s what we like to do so we can learn some things. Well, Flay, I know I appreciate you taking time [recorder is turned off]

END OF INTERVIEW
Transcribed by Deborah Rogers, May 14, 2011
Edited by Darlene Gravett, July 12, 2011
Sound quality of CD: Very good