HILDA POOLE

TRANSCRIPT %u2013HILDA POOLE
[Compiled May 14th, 2009]

Interviewee: HILDA POOLE

Interviewers: Buzz Biggerstaff and Jeff Currie

Interview Date:

Location: Shelby, North Carolina

Length: 1 hour, 51 minutes

HILDA POOLE: %u2026But the train did come up there. You know, you heard that and knew what it was. Then, when they come to pick it up, it was a bunch of thumping%u2026
BUZZ BIGGERSTAFF: %u2026Yeah, yeah%u2026
HP: %u2026for them to back it out. See, they did that--they put off the bales of cotton at the mill, and then they had to back the train all the way back up there.
JEFF CURRIE: And it was bumping each car going backwards.
HP: To get it locked--well, when they came back to pick it up is when the noise was--of trying to get it to lock.
JC: Um-hmm. It%u2019s amazing the sounds you remember.
HP: Well, in my opinion it was a good place. It was a good place to grow up and there were families that had more children than they really could--could do justice to. But, I think that was--maybe in those days that was universal. Gosh, we had a lot that went in the service. Lily Mills had a lot of--a lot of men in the service.
BB: Did you have several different sizes of homes?...
HP: %u2026Yes%u2026
BB: %u2026If you had a family that had, like%u2026
HP: %u2026Yes. Well, yeah, but none of them were generous.
BB: Yeah, OK.
HP: In fact, I lived in a three-room house until I was nineteen years old. They had a house across from Selma and Ova that was larger, and they told Mother and Daddy--Mother and Daddy came from the farm. Mother wanted to come from the farm, and they told them they could have either house. Mother said, %u201CWell, we%u2019ll take the smaller one; they%u2019ve got children.%u201D I was adopted%u2026
BB: %u2026Um-hmm%u2026
HP: %u2026and my--I don%u2019t know--I don%u2019t remember how long it was before they adopted me, but, I mean, they adopted me in %u201927, and [paused] I%u2019m old [all laughed].
JC: You ain%u2019t that old.
BB: In looking, as you go down the street--and fortunately, you%u2019ve got the village still pretty intact, with the houses. It looks like some have two stories. Is that a false two story, or is it--?
HP: No, on the left--and Selma%u2019s is a two-story.
BB: OK, yeah.
HP: The Lails lived there and across the street from her, the Warlicks lived there, and they had a two-story.
BB: OK.
HP: On our street--OK, there%u2019s two. One in front of our house, and then on the back street: one, two, three, four, five--I believe there was five back there that was two-story.
BB: OK.
HP: But, like I say, Mother said for them to take that house because it had more bedrooms. This has nothing to do with that, but my--one of my sons, he keeps saying to me, %u201CMom, don%u2019t you want to scale down? Don%u2019t you want to be in a smaller house, and get rid of this?%u201D I said, %u201CI don%u2019t have a thing I want to get rid of.%u201D [Both interviewers laughed]. But, anyway--.
JC: You come from living in a three-room house; you%u2019re happy with what you%u2019ve got right now.
HP: Well, I got three bedrooms.
JC: [Laughed] HP: But we managed--I%u2019ll tell you, [paused] I remember one winter. It was so cold, so cold, and of course, the houses--you know, some of them you could see through the cracks. Mother--we had a--. Let%u2019s see, what kind of stove did they call that? It was like a little coal stove.
BB: Warm Morning? Was it Warm Morning?
HP: Well, it had two burners on it--two openings. She brought what was called the %u201Cmeat table%u201D when you killed a hog and you put the meat out on the table. She brought that into the bedroom. You know, we%u2019ve got two beds, and a chest, and three rockers, and that stove, and a table. Mother cooked in there on that stove and we ate on that table, because it was so cold in the rest of the part of the house. I mean, many times you got up in the wintertime and the water was frozen in the kitchen. But, you know, that didn%u2019t bother me.
BB: Was there capabilities of having your own garden and%u2026
HP: %u2026Oh, yeah%u2026
BB: %u2026maybe, you mentioned hogs. Were you able to raise hogs on the village?
HP: Yeah, and Till Ledford--they always called him to come and kill them. Daddy couldn%u2019t kill a hog. He couldn%u2019t kill anything, so--.
BB: Did the plant have a facility where they could get the boiling water that was needed in killing them? They just killed them and worked them up?
HP: In your back yard.
BB: In--OK.
HP: Up in the back yard where the garden would be.
BB: OK.
HP: Not everybody had hogs, but Mother and Daddy did. You made sausage from it, and you had tenderloin. I always knew that we was going to have tenderloin%u2026
BB: %u2026Um%u2013hmmm. One meal%u2026
HP: %u2026that night, because that was the easiest thing, because you%u2019d been working since seven o%u2019clock that morning. She had this black lady that came and helped sometimes, and she always had her to come when she--when they killed a hog. Of course, they gave her part of the meat, but she also took the part that they was going to throw away, you know.
BB: One of the things I remember is my mom canning sausage, putting it in glass jars. Did y%u2019all do a lot of that?
HP: No, I don%u2019t think Mother did that. Mother put hers in what they called a %u201Cpoke.%u201D
BB: OK.
HP: She sewed them up and put the--. But, now I didn%u2019t like that. It had a [paused]--it had an odor to it that was like India. It was something like that in there that I didn%u2019t like, but I ate it.
JC: [Laughed] What you had, right?
HP: Yeah. Well, Mother never made me eat anything, and they had a number of foods that I didn%u2019t eat, like mush.
JC: You don%u2019t like mush?
HP: Heck, no!
BB: [Laughed] HP: But she never forced me, but that was all right. I just didn%u2019t have supper that night. Mush and milk. Oh, mercy!
BB: [Laughed] HP: But, everybody has their own taste. But, talking about the gardens--we did have--not a very large garden because when Daddy left the farm, he wanted the farm to stay there. Then, during the war, Mr. Schenck encouraged us to have gardens. They called them %u201CVictory Gardens.%u201D And my mother, bless her heart--we had two. We worked until two o%u2019clock, and then we went to the garden and worked %u2018til seven, or eight, and then came home and ate supper, got a bath and went to bed. Got up the next morning and went to work at six o%u2019clock and got off at two--back to the garden. Mother was good with gardens. Now, not everybody did it. We had one behind--no, we had one there just below the church you%u2019re talking about. It is there now. We had one garden there. I remember it had sweet potatoes in it. Then we had another one as you--as you said, turn there at there at that building you was talking about, and we lived on that street. But we went down--the street ended one house below us, and then there was a road that you went down to empty your trash--down that way. We took a part, like over here, and had a garden there. And, for that, Mr. Schenck--he built--had a house built, and it%u2019s still there. If you turn at that building and go down, it is on the left. It%u2019s the next-to-last house on that side. He made a cannery--built a cannery for them. He furnished the cans, and all you had to do was go down there and%u2026
BB: %u2026They%u2019d can it for you%u2026
HP: %u2026and can it. Um-hmm. So, you know, there was nothing wasted there. But, not everybody either could do it, or didn%u2019t want to do it, or whatever. It was a lot of hard work.
JC: What kind of vegetables did y%u2019all grow? What did y%u2019all grow on that?
HP: Okra, corn, sweet potatoes, Irish potatoes, cucumbers%u2026
JC: %u2026A little bit of everything%u2026
HP: %u2026squash.
BB: Did you have anybody that came into the community that you could buy different vegetables and?%u2026
HP: %u2026Oh, yeah%u2026
BB: %u2026for an additional way of getting sustenance.
HP: Well, [paused] yeah, people--people did come and they%u2019d bring corn, green beans, cucumbers, like whatever comes out of a garden, they would come through. We also--the one I liked was--do you remember Tony%u2019s Ice Cream?
BB: Oh yeah.
HP: Well, he came down through the village. But, we didn%u2019t get a cone of ice cream. I don%u2019t know--maybe some people did, but our house didn%u2019t. Daddy wanted a bowl, and you take the bowl out there and he%u2019d just put the--.
BB: [Laughed] HP: You go back in, and had a good time eating, so--.
JC: [Laughed] BB: Yeah, I think that Tony was probably the first of that type of business that I ever saw. They may have had it in Charlotte, but around here, he certainly was the first one that I knew of.
HP: Um-hmm. Yeah. We always had to go to Tony%u2019s Ice Cream after prayer meeting.
BB: Yeah.
HP: I went to church there on Lafayette Street--the beautiful church that is no more there.
BB: Yeah.
HP: This is something I thought you might be interested in. See if you know what it is.
JC: Ah, yeah. World War II ration books for flour and sugar and stuff. Yeah, I%u2019ve seen my grandmother, she%u2019s passed now, but she had them. Huh%u2026
HP: %u2026See how conservative%u2026
JC: %u2026she%u2019s still got some stamps. She didn%u2019t use them all up.
HP: Yeah, I started to say that%u2019s just how conservative my mother was if you didn%u2019t need them.
BB: Didn%u2019t use them.
HP: Yeah. But I don%u2019t think you could give them to anybody else. I don%u2019t--.
BB: Not that I know of.
HP: I don%u2019t think so.
BB: Remember at the company store%u2026
HP: %u2026Is that shoes, or--?
JC: [As he tried to read from the ration book] It%u2019s %u201CS-T-W-B-8-5-2.%u201D Let%u2019s see. I don%u2019t know how to read them. I%u2019ve seen them, but I don%u2019t know how to read them all [laughed].
HP: Well, you had shoes, and gas, and tires.
BB: Sweet stuff.
HP: Then you had%u2026
HP: %u2026Sugar, sugar.
BB: Yeah, I was going to ask if the company store really boomed when the bakeries brought in the cakes and stuff that you had to buy also with these. Did they have a booming business that day? It probably didn%u2019t take them long to sell out.
HP: Hmm, I don%u2019t remember about that because Mother wasn%u2019t involved in buying bakery. Well, now she used to--she would buy--oh, what was that now? Gosh, I can%u2019t think what the name of that dime store, and it was right up above J.C. Penney%u2019s, of which now is that handbag place.
BB: Was it Eagle%u2019s?
HP: Eagle%u2019s. Thank you. They had a cabinet--counter of cookies. You bought them single, by the half-dozen or whatever, and we always got cookies when we went to town on Saturday.
JC: This is the mileage, I guess, for gas--mileage records?
HP: I guess.
JC: Gasoline, I think. So what was it like being in the mill during the war? You said that a lot of men went out and fought, but what were the women doing that were here?
HP: The women picked up whatever they did.
JC: They picked up the shifts?
HP: Yeah, yeah. But, now we also had--we had a good number of people that worked in the plant that--they were not of the age to go to--into the service--too old. My daddy missed it twice, by his age. He had already gotten a thing and the first one ended, but anyway--. The women did whatever needed to be done. Now, not all of them was capable of that. I%u2019m contented to go by my mother. She never saw a task that she couldn%u2019t do. She would do more than my dad. She was--she would climb up on top of a house, but Daddy wouldn%u2019t. So, yeah, that kind of thing.
JC: Sounds like a tough woman.
HP: She was. She grew up in a tough family, and she worked like a man. She worked at molasses, doing that, just things that you do on the farm that we really don%u2019t know a whole lot about. But I felt like that Lily Mills was--. I don%u2019t know, it was a close community and you knew everybody and whose children belonged to who. Pretty much, if you thought one needed to be corrected, you did, whether it was yours or not. But, it still was different. You didn%u2019t have everybody on the village going to church on Sunday, and we had neighbors on our left that, to my knowledge, they never put their foot in a church. And the one up above them, the one up above them, then Daisy and--Daisy went to church but her husband didn%u2019t. But, like I say, less people went to church than there was that did. Not to say that they were rascals or anything, or creating any problems, and we had those that we always knew on the weekend that we was going to see them come staggering down the street.
BB: Um-hmm [laughed].
JC: Right.
HP: But they didn%u2019t bother anything. Now we did have one person that--he just should have been put away at a very young age, because he was as mean as mean can be. And his brother%u2019s--is the one that%u2019s being suspected of killing that girl. In fact, Forrest (Mrs. Poole%u2019s husband) and me built a house up on Lafayette Street, but we didn%u2019t have a car. You know how far it is from Lafayette%u2026
BB: %u2026Um-hmm%u2026
HP: %u2026down there. Somebody called us on Saturday and said that his brother had been stabbed several times, and it was Earl that had done it.
BB: Hmm.
HP: Of course, Forrest had to go down there and look after his brother, but we had people that caused problems, but I%u2019ll say, like my household, we just ignored him. We didn%u2019t have anything in common with them. But, also, our next-door neighbor, we just got along fine. We enjoyed them, but they didn%u2019t go to church. But we didn%u2019t hold that against them. We didn%u2019t say every week, %u201CYou need to go to church.%u201D But then Mr. Schenck did--that was after I left. That was after Forrest and me left the Lily Mills because the church is across the road from where we lived, and it%u2019s a nice church. It%u2019s just never grown, I think, like they had hoped it would. Not, I%u2019m saying that the people that went to church--they didn%u2019t leave their church to go to this one. So, I really don%u2019t know about their attendance now, the number. But, those of us that were accustomed to going to church--we were split. We had some Baptists and some Methodists, and the Baptist was up there on the railroad track right at the stop light, where you can either go down--. What street goes down from the stop light there at the railroad track and you go down by the Belmont Mill? No, the Ella Mill. Ella Mill. Go down by the Ella Mill, like you were going%u2026
BB: %u2026I know what you%u2019re talking about, but I can%u2019t think of the--.
JC: You said a street down by the Ella Mill.
HP: Well, honey, just give me time.
JC: [Laughed] HP: Morton, Morton.
JC: Morton?
HP: No, no, no, no, no. No, I lived on it. Why can I not think of it?
BB: You%u2019re talking about the one that crosses the new Dekalb Street Extension down there and goes on out in the country. You kind of swing around when you%u2026
HP: %u2026Huh-uh. No, you%u2019re coming out on the--right close to the building that you said. It belongs to the church now, but it was the clubhouse.
BB: Uh-huh. I can%u2019t remember--.
HP: Why in the devil can%u2019t I--?
BB: Yeah, I can%u2019t remember it either.
HP: The house burned down not long ago. We lived in that big yellow house on the left. It belonged to the company at one time. One of the supervisors lived in it, the Irvins. You maybe remember some of the boys, Jim Irvin and%u2026
BB: %u2026I remember that name%u2026
HP: %u2026and one of them was a highway patrolman. That amazes me, that I don%u2019t remember the name of that street.
BB: I wanted to ask you a couple of things. One, the houses that are near the McDonald%u2019s, there on Dekalb, South Dekalb%u2026
HP: %u2026Wait a minute, now, McDonalds?
BB: In other words, if you were going toward Shelby High, past where Selma lives, and the houses on out around the curve and to 74--. Were they part of the%u2026
HP: %u2026Start at the high school.
BB: And that was part of the Lily?
HP: Yeah.
BB: So you probably had four or five hundred--well, no, in population it would have been more than that, wouldn%u2019t it?
HP: Yeah. See, you had that street and then there is a street that if you%u2019re coming from--if you%u2019re going toward Selma%u2019s house, there%u2019s a--there used to be a church there, but you cut off and go through this little short street here.
BB: Um-hmm.
HP: But everything from the railroad track--railroad track, we%u2019re going east. Everything from the railroad track east was Lily Mills, and then when you crossed over the railroad track, and that row of houses was the Lily Mills also%u2026
BB: %u2026OK%u2026
HP: %u2026where the Camps lived, and%u2026
BB: %u2026Jim Blanton%u2019s place with the toys, he was part of it too, wasn%u2019t it? On South Lafayette. Was it Jim--Jim Blanton?
HP: You%u2019re talking about Marvin.
BB: Marvin Blanton that had the toy shop?
HP: Uh-huh.
BB: Or toy store?
HP: Toy store. That--no, that%u2026
BB: %u2026That wasn%u2019t part of the village?
HP: No. Huh-uh. No, everything faced down there, like you say--. Now, if you%u2019re on the back side, you%u2019ve got to come out. There%u2019s not a way for you to get out other than coming out this way.
BB: OK.
JC: OK, just thinking about this--. So, the villages were around the mills, and I understand that, but did you have contact with people in other villages, for other mills? Or were you pretty much--did you pretty much stay within that community and not go out and--?
HP: We pretty much stayed. Now, in my situation we had people from the Shelby Mill that came to church down there, and so I knew a number of them. Not regularly, but the women in our church, they used to do crazy things like have silly hats--something, who could have the silliest hat. The women would get on the bus--the city bus, and go over to the east side, and the women over there was doing the silly hats, too. And, so--. But, I had relatives that lived over in the east side part, and I was over there, maybe more than the other people. No, I would say that the Lily Mill connected more with the east side than we did with the Belmont, I%u2019ll say. But now, we did have a man that was--I don%u2019t know what Miles Baker%u2019s title was, but he ran the Belmont Mill, and they lived on the street that I live on now--on Tina Drive. Selma%u2019s dad worked there, and from what Selma says, he was pretty good at what he did, of developing new things to help the business.
BB: Engineering?
HP: Yeah, it was just like Forrest drove us crazy one year as we went to the beach. He had a hair that he could do something to fix a boxing situation that they had. He worked on it all the time we were at the beach. He came back and fixed it, and it worked great but he couldn%u2019t get a patent on it because he worked for them.
JC: Back then you couldn%u2019t. You can now.
BB: You mentioned the Belmont Mill. Were the houses directly behind their part of their village--did they have a village like Lily, or did those go with Shelby Mill? You know, there%u2019s still some there.
HP: Now, wait. Ask me that again.
BB: OK, the Belmont plant%u2026
HP: %u2026Belmont, OK, yeah%u2026
BB: %u2026it--there are a few houses behind the Carter Chevrolet building there, that are obviously mill houses, and I was wondering if they were part of the Belmont village, or Shelby Mill village.
HP: I%u2019m not sure on that, but I would think that they were Shelby Mill.
BB: OK.
HP: Now Belmont--Belmont had theirs facing the east. Selma%u2019s house--not now, but Selma%u2019s house was just below it on the other side of the street. I remember there was just, I believe, two or three houses on this side. The McMurry house was on the corner there, where you turn--would turn right now to go up to that Auto Zone%u2026
BB: %u2026Um-hmm, right there%u2026
HP: %u2026one of the--the McMurry house was there. That was his house, but it was a company house, and then the houses down here--. Selma lived--I%u2019d say Selma lived where that video place is now, and there was houses beside of her. There was not a road that went down beside of Wendy%u2019s. Wendy%u2019s wasn%u2019t there; it was houses to the road.
BB: So part of those might be with the Belmont Mill, then.
HP: No, all that%u2019s been taken down.
BB: No, but I mean at that time, would they have been--?
HP: Oh, yeah, they were the Belmont. Then the Ella--they picked up on Textile Street there, and it goes behind and it comes down--. Let%u2019s see, can you turn there now? Yeah, you would turn at that big service station and go down that way, and there%u2019s houses back there to Dekalb Street, and over to the right. Those were--am I confusing you?
JC: No, I%u2019m going to get a map out later and listen to it [laughed], and try to figure out where all these places are.
HP: You should have just picked me up and%u2026
JC: %u2026And drove you around?
HP: I could have told you%u2026
JC: %u2026We can do that--we can do that next time.
HP: But you see, my mind--.
JC: It%u2019s good, actually. Your mind is real good. You can remember a lot of the stuff, and%u2026
HP: %u2026Well, see, that%u2019s what happens when you have Alzheimer%u2019s. You can remember that, but you can%u2019t remember--. Now, what%u2019s you name? [All laughed].
JC: I%u2019ve got a question going back.
HP: OK.
JC: You mentioned earlier that your parents--they were farmers before. So, they farmed and then went into the town to work in the mill. So, was that common, and where did they come from before?
HP: My dad came from Lawndale and Mother was in Lawndale area. Mother worked at the Lawndale Mill. Daddy worked on the farm. Daddy wanted off of the farm. Daddy didn%u2019t like the farm.
BB: [Laughed] HP: And Daddy didn%u2019t like to cut grass, so my mother cut grass, but he helped when he had to. They just came and asked for a job, and Mr. Schenck gave them a job and gave them a house.
JC: Could they work to own the house later?
HP: Pardon?
JC: Could they own the house later?
HP: Way later, yes, and they did. They added a room to it after I left.
JC: [Laughed] HP: But also, we didn%u2019t have bathrooms.
JC: Really?
BB: That was one of the questions I was going to ask you, if you did have indoor plumbing.
HP: We did not. Across the street from us, we had a pump. Every place, now like, as he calls the %u201Cback line,%u201D they had two pumps. Let%u2019s see, how can I--? There%u2019s an island between the houses here and the houses on this side. There%u2019s a row of houses that faces this way and a row of houses that faces this way, so there%u2019s a--. What would you call that in between? It%u2019s just dirt and grass and--. OK, and then up here is a pump that these people use.
BB: Long-handled cistern?
HP: Yeah, and one of them%u2026
JC: %u2026Kind of like that? Like an island here?
HP: Now this is the houses, and this is houses, and this is an island of dirt and rocks, and whatever. Then, right here--well, let%u2019s see back up here--. Right here is a pump, or a well. Some of them, you had--. Then down here at the lower end is another one for that group of people.
JC: OK.
HP: Now, this is the back one. Now, over here is the next street, of which is now Dekalb.
JC: OK.
HP: It was the same way.
JC: OK.
HP: There, at one time, was an island there and there was a pump up here in front of Mr%u2026.
JC: %u2026So you would have had a road here, maybe, and then more houses. Then, you have another kind of system like this, too? Back over here.
HP: This one over here is the Dekalb Street. You come here and turn and go down this way and up this way, and you%u2019ve got the back side.
JC: OK.
HP: Well now, see, we%u2019re this street. I%u2019m this street, so we had one here and one here. That was my job in the evening, to bring the water in.
JC: How many buckets?
HP: I didn%u2019t bring but two, I think.
JC: Two? OK.

HP: But that was every night, that I had to go and bring water in. So, I sure was happy when they got water in the house.
JC: [Laughed] About what year was that, that y%u2019all got water in the house?
HP: [Long pause as she pondered the question].
JC: About how old were you?
HP: I would say that it was maybe the early forties.
BB: Did the company still own the houses at that time?
HP: Yes, yes, they did. But I so well remember when the war ended and we came home, and we stayed with Mother and Daddy, I think, a week or so. Here we are again, with three rooms--and my bed was a three-quarter bed so we had more room. But she put the three-quarter bed in the living room for Forrest and me. We lived here--this is our back and this is Forrest%u2019s daddy%u2019s back to us. So, we moved up to his house for more room. He lived alone, and the first thing Forrest did--he went out on the back porch and started measuring to what he needed to do. He built a bathroom and a shower [both interviewers laughed.
JC: Needed those conveniences [laughed]!
HP: And it did not take him long. Of course, there wasn%u2019t many things that, if he wanted to do it, that he didn%u2019t do it.
JC: So what year did you get married?
HP: 1945.
JC: 1945. So right after the end of the war.
HP: Um-hmm. Yeah, Forrest--at that time, he was stationed in Beaufort, South Carolina. So, we went to Beaufort after I was married. I was supposed to come back in a week, and I didn%u2019t come back in a week. After the second week, Mr. Whitener sent me a message that if I wanted my job, I%u2019d better come back [both interviewers laughed]. Of course, I really didn%u2019t want the job [all laughed]. But, the war ended while we were there, and if you have ever seen a sight, it was the sight--there%u2019s a naval base there, and there%u2019s a Marine base. They both came into Beaufort--into town. The windows in the liquor stores was broken out, and they were just throwing out bottles, and you%u2019d better catch it.
BB: Really?
HP: Yeah, and I have never, never, seen as much toilet tissue in my life in those%u2026
BB: %u2026Draped over the trees?
HP: %u2026weeping trees.
JC: [Laughed] HP: It was beautiful. I guess maybe I was one of the five that was sober.
BB: [Laughed] JC: Wow. So you were taking care of a lot of people, I guess [laughed].
HP: No, I wasn%u2019t. I was just letting them happen, whatever happened, just as long as they didn%u2019t bother me [all laughed]. I never will forget--we went down on the beach. I don%u2019t know who else was down there--not a whole lot of people. I had on one of my good going-away dresses--it had a scooped neck to it, and, as I said, Forrest was one that was not sober. He started going around and around, and getting those--what are they called?--sand crabs, and he got them in a pile. He took off his hat, and scooped it full, and put it down my dress.
BB: Oh, lord! [Both interviewers laughed].
HP: That was the first time I thought about murdering him! [All laughed].
JC: And by this point, you were already married, so you couldn%u2019t just leave him [all laughed].
HP: Oh, mercy. But, no, that was good times down there. When the war ended they offered him a commission and me a job with the--what?--[paused]--Civil Service. We didn%u2019t take it. He was ready to get out, but there was a lot of advantages to it. Maybe now, or five years later we might have done it, but he was to go to Japan. I thought Japan was a bad place to go...
JC: %u2026At that point, right.
HP: Yeah. So, like I say, he wanted to come home.
JC: So you grew up right next to him? Back-to-back.
HP: And never--we didn%u2019t talk in any way, and he lied to get into the Navy, and he asked me to go to the movies with him on Saturday night before he was going to leave. I said, %u201CWell, I%u2019ll have to ask my mother,%u201D and I did. She said I could go.
JC: And that was it?
HP: And that was it. He was in all these places. He was on the water, and he was in--I think he was in Newfoundland maybe the longest period of time. He said up there it was just terrible. They had to put ropes from building to building for them to hold to, to keep the wind from blowing them away.
BB: Probably cold, too, wasn%u2019t it?
HP: Oh, lord yes, it was cold. And he%u2019s saying cold. When they sent him away from there, they sent him to Jacksonville, Florida.
BB: The exact opposite.
JC: He had to get used to that, I guess.
HP: Well, he didn%u2019t stay long enough to get used to it. He didn%u2019t like it, and so, I guess they put up openings for them to see, so he asked to come to Beaufort. That is a pretty place.
BB: It can get warm there.
HP: Oh, it can get hot.
JC: That whole part of South Carolina is pretty, I think.
HP: This is when they put him out for sales rep, and then I guess the last seven years he came in--he was a purchasing agent and traffic manager.
BB: The whole time that you worked there, was--you worked with or for the Schencks?
HP: Well, you know, on the end of it, when we realized the end was there, it was Belding.
BB: Oh, OK.
HP: Belding Lily. That%u2019s when it plunged.
BB: Yeah. Well, I wanted to ask another question, then. This is going back to what we discussed earlier. On the villages, did you have many, or any folks that might live on the Lily village, but maybe worked up at the Shelby Mill? Or did most of them that lived on the village work there?
HP: They worked at the Lily. It was not compulsive, but they did.
BB: OK. And then the other thing I wanted to ask, in the work part--. You mentioned your mom was a real worker. This may have changed during the war, but did you have jobs that were primarily for the ladies, and some for men? Or did%u2026
HP: %u2026Yes%u2026
BB: %u2026did both work on the same jobs?
HP: No, not necessarily. No, huh-uh. The men--I cannot think of what my dad worked on, but I can see it very clearly. It was putting the yarn on a spool about this big, and then it went from--card room--see, I got it.
BB: Probably slubbers. You%u2019re talking about the roving on the slubber.
HP: Yeah, but Daddy wasn%u2019t on that long. They put him in a little, spare box office, and a calculator to calculate how to set the machinery.
BB: Um-hmm, or gears, needed what roll speed and all that.
HP: Um-hmm. Thank you, you%u2019re helping me out. Then you go from there to the spinning room. That was--the women did the spinning, but the men did most of the doffing.
BB: OK.
HP: That doffing is when--you know, when they would finish with that, they%u2019d come out into the tower and smoke, or rest, or eat. I have to say this %u2018cause that%u2019s true. That%u2019s where Earl Scruggs practiced--played his%u2026
BB: %u2026Banjo%u2026
HP: %u2026banjo. And I will tell you that we%u2019ve got one of his banjos.
BB: Really?
HP: Um-hmm. Forrest said that one night--see, they just had like a ten or fifteen minute break %u2018til they had to go back and another one was ready to doff. He said that Earl said, %u201CWell, boys, I%u2019ve had it,%u201D and said, %u201CI%u2019m going to Nashville.%u201D And he did, and he%u2019s been successful. I don%u2019t care for his music, but there%u2019s a million of people that do. But, then you came down--I can%u2019t think what that was. It was the next step, and Forrest%u2019s dad worked on--he worked on the machines on that, not%u2026
BB: %u2026Was it in the winding or would it have been in an area where they were making--it was part of the yarn preparation, but it was a final stage before it was made into the finished yarn? Did they wax it? Did they wax the yarn there?
HP: Huh-uh. No. No, no, no. Then it went over--it went into another area--it was changing the spools again. Then it went over into another department and they put it on a thing about that big.
BB: That was a winding area. I believe they did the winding there.
HP: So, for there then it came to the sewing machine, I mean the machine that put it on the spools, and that%u2019s what I did for a very short period of time. I would drop the spools, and you were supposed to go behind and pick them up %u2018cause they were expensive. Mr. Whitener, he would get onto you. He%u2019d say, %u201CYou need to get your spools up.%u201D Of course, if they stayed back there they might get oil on them, and--. So, you had a trough here of thread on a spool, and, no, you had--it was not on thread. You filled up a little slot, like that, and it comes down and winds it on the spool, and it cuts it, and it cuts a place in the spool for the thread to be fastened. Then it dashes off into a tray in front of you to--to finish it and throw it in a basket, a big basket. Then it goes from there to a labeling machine. They put the big basket up on a frame, and then they run it through another slot, and there%u2019s a label on both ends. They did have a lot of problems with the labeling because the labels would get stuck together. And they were supposed to whirr before they put them in the thing. So, then it was in a box and was ready to go to be sold.
JC: So how long were your shifts? Did you work eight each day?
HP: Eight hours.
JC: Eight hours? What would y%u2019all do--break times and stuff? Did you have breaks during the day? Or lunch time, would you go home?
HP: I think some people ran home, but I think most of the time you just had your sandwich there. You could go out. We had--they were talking about a %u201Cdope wagon.%u201D
JC: Right
HP: We had ours, just--we had one place that you could go and buy sandwiches and drinks, and pies and that kind of thing. We had a woman that stayed there that cooked them. She made the best oyster sandwich.
BB: Really?
HP: Mercy.
JC: [Laughed] HP: It was good, and now I can%u2019t eat oysters. So, they can come down there and get it, but not necessarily take any time to stop. You worked from six to two, two to ten, and ten to six.
JC: And somebody mentioned that--I think it was Betty, when we were out at Lawndale, that a lot of the guys there would--or people, while they were waiting for shift changes would play checkers and stuff. So you mentioned that they would play music at times during the day in the tower, I think you said.
HP: He was just playing in the tower when they was waiting for a doffing.
JC: Right. So, would people do other stuff like that, though? Nobody played checkers?
HP: No, they just--. No.
JC: OK.
HP: No, they just rested and talked, or you know--.
BB: One thing that I wanted to ask--we%u2019ve talked about this a little. Since you worked in the office, I thought it might be good, that you would remember these things there. Do you remember the different ways that you got pay? Like, you saw it go from being paid every week to being paid every two weeks. Did you see the day of the envelope, when the money was cash, and it?%u2026
HP: %u2026I used to count it [all laughed].
BB: OK.
HP: And God knows--if you was off one penny, you had to start all over. Many a time, I didn%u2019t get to get my lunch %u2018til five o%u2019clock when I went home. Tilley McCarver was in charge of that. And I%u2019ll think of his name--little man, he would go to the bank and get the money on Thursday morning, and bring it into Tilley%u2019s office. There would be two people that would go in and work with her on the money. And, yeah, you had to have it to the penny or start all over.
BB: [Laughed].
HP: You put it in an envelope, and you put it to what department it was, and the person over that department gave out the--.
JC: What did it go to after that? Did y%u2019all go to using checks, or how long did that last, the cash and the envelopes?
HP: Hmm. Well, you know, I just don%u2019t remember because the office did not get paid by cash. We were paid by check--monthly.
BB: Would it have been about the time that you went to paying off maybe every two weeks? Would that have been when they might have made a change?
HP: We never did go to%u2026
BB: %u2026You never did go to two weeks?
HP: No, not in the plant. It was weekly.
BB: The salaried people?
HP: The salaried was, yeah. And I did that, and you see, we had sales reps in every state. They ended up putting me in there paying the commissions.
BB: [Laughed] JC: What, calculating and all that?
BB: I%u2019m glad you survived this long.
HP: Well, we had one man out in the Dakotas that--he might get paid every two months, because the limit was you had to have five dollars before we would send him a check. So, I guess they didn%u2019t sew out there [both interviewers laughed]. But, or used another brand. But I hated it. I mean, it was a job. I had to take every order and each article was a different percentage.
JC: Gosh.
HP: And Lily Mills had a lot of articles. What bothered me was that Forrest was traveling. I always had somebody to check behind me on his, because he was always in the top three. I had to calculate every article for every man, and we had a man in every state, and sometimes two.
JC: Wow.
BB: Did it ever get to the place that that particular element of work was converted to the computers, or did it go right up to the end when the plant shut down? Did you still manually do that?
HP: Well, see, I wasn%u2019t there. I was--I moved again, or they moved me. You know, I don%u2019t know how they did the--did that now, because I had nothing to do with it. I moved out of that into what was the company store that was my office.
BB: OK.
HP: So, I didn%u2019t have anything to do with that. But, I%u2019m sure that they did it.
BB: It was in the business long enough they probably did. Were you ever in human resources when you worked in the office? The personnel end or--?
HP: Explain that to me.
BB: Did you ever have anything to do with the area where they hired the employees? I guess you had a personnel department.
HP: Yeah, yeah. It was out there in the company store.
BB: Oh, OK.
HP: Sometime--I had a boy one time that gave me a scare. He kept coming back and I finally locked the door. I was out there on an island by myself, and people came in there to apply for jobs. But, now, I had nothing to do with that. I turned them over to the--whoever--what department they were applying for. But, it came back to me, but I didn%u2019t have anything to do with the decisions. If things had to be done--but, like, I didn%u2019t pay the people off. I had it separated by the departments and the shifts, and they came and got it. But there were times that I had to go on the second shift, of which was not--was OK, but then I had to go back on the third and tell them so-and-so what they had to do, or needed to do. When we made changes like insurance, you had to have their signature. And when I had to test them for hearing, I had to go back on the third.
BB: Did you remember about when, one of the things that you were aware of that we talked about through the years was percent turnover. Do you remember where you had a very low percent turnover, where people would be on jobs, and year after year, unless somebody passed away, you wouldn%u2019t have to hire--?
HP: We didn%u2019t have a lot of turnover, but I found it more in the--up in the card room. For the second shift, in the spinning. But, in the other parts, no.
BB: Pretty well stable?
HP: Um-hmm. And everybody that worked there was not from--didn%u2019t live on the village.
BB: OK. They had commuters that--?
HP: Um-hmm. Yeah.
BB: Do you remember what the furthest person came that you%u2019d know of, maybe from Gaffney or%u2026
HP: %u2026Oh, no.
BB: You don%u2019t remember?
HP: No, I don%u2019t think we even had anybody that was out of the county.
BB: OK.
HP: No, we pretty well stayed close around. Just like Mr. Whitener told me, %u201CGet back and get my job.%u201D
JC: Get back [laughed].
HP: And I got back and got my job, and Gene Schenck came and told me to come to the office, so I did. And I had a dang, bitchy boss, %u2018cause she couldn%u2019t control me.
JC: [Laughed].
BB: Did you have the term--I%u2019ve heard this before--did you have the term there that, %u201CIf you run your job, you get to keep it?%u201D
HP: [Laughed] I don%u2019t know, I didn%u2019t. Maybe that%u2019s what the overseer said to them, but some of them would say, %u201CHell, here it is, you can take it.%u201D [All laughed]. Mercy, mercy.
JC: The other day when we were talking and we were talking about baseball, and you mentioned in--explain how, what the leagues were. What was recreation like, back when you were younger, especially back in the twenties, thirties, forties, and how the leagues were%u2026
HP: %u2026Well, I started to say, you better move up a little!...
JC: %u2026[Laughed] fifties, sixties, seventies. [Both interviewers laughed].
HP: I am eighty-two years old.
JC: Eighty-two.
HP: Yes, and so, see%u2026
JC: %u2026I wouldn%u2019t have thought eighty-two.
HP: [laughed].
JC: I%u2019m telling you.
HP: Thank you. Well, we just had people that could play baseball. Maybe they%u2019d get out here in the middle of the street and, you know, we didn%u2019t have a whole lot of cars going. You just didn%u2019t get out and go like we do now. You were going to a place. I don%u2019t know, gosh [paused].
Give me a minute. Peters--he was Peters, and I can%u2019t think of his name right now. But anyway, him and ( ), Forrest, Jody Carter, Dwight Ledbetter. I mean, they all just played ball and they got up there and played in the ball field. As you go down--what are we going down now? I%u2019m on Lafayette Street and%u2026
BB: %u2026Turn left%u2026
HP: %u2026turn left%u2026
BB: %u2026like you%u2019re going down to the clubhouse.
HP: Yeah, and on the other side of the street from the clubhouse there was one house that was back off of the main road, and it was the Irvin%u2019s, but it was a company house. But, then here%u2019s all this before you get to that row of houses that faces the railroad track. So, they just went up there and started playing. Well, I think it was the same way with Cleveland Cloth. It was just a bunch of guys that liked to play, and they could play so they started playing each other. Then, I think they played sometimes, guys from Gastonia. I mean, they just played for the fun of it, but they played earnestly [laughed].
JC: They played for real [laughed].
HP: I%u2019m telling you, we had some--we had some good players. I don%u2019t remember that Tom Wright really played with us that much. Tom was in the big leagues by then. His wife grew up down there, and worked there, but Tom and Frances never lived--well of course, she lived with her dad while he was gone. But they just got up there behind ( ) Tritt%u2019s house and played baseball.
JC: Was there bragging rights? Would these wins against the other mill teams%u2026
HP: %u2026Well, sure, sure.
JC: Kind of a little swagger in your step.
HP: Well, they got along, but it%u2019s just like it is in baseball now. But, now we didn%u2019t have somebody to go out and get thrown out of the game like Bobby Cox [laughed].
BB: I can remember--I wasn%u2019t old enough to play, but I can remember coming with--we had a mill team, too--coming down there to play a game.
HP: Yeah.
JC: Come down here?
BB: Come down to the field she%u2019s talking about--it%u2019s where we went by the clubhouse, it was across the road on the right in there.
JC: So it was pretty far-reaching?
HP: It was big, and we finally had some bleachers, and got a back thing.
BB: Backstop and all.
JC: Did some of the players from the local mills go to some of the minor league?--%u2018cause Shelby had a minor league team, too. At one time, I think they called it different things. There were different names for them.
BB: There were a few--not many. Those players came in.
JC: They came in from outside.
HP: There was one from the Shelby Mill.
BB: Oh, you%u2019re talking about Roger McKee.
HP: Thank you. Yeah.
JC: So he moved up, kind of--.
HP: But Roger--he played with the Shelby Mill, not--he played Lily Mill, but with the Shelby Mill.
JC: What kind of other stuff with y%u2019all, or games or activities would y%u2019all do against other mills or with other mills?
HP: I don%u2019t know of any that we did other than that.
JC: Did y%u2019all have dances or anything within the mills?
HP: Are you kidding?
BB: [Laughed] HP: My mother would have took the top off of our house.
BB: You at the square dance?
JC: [Laughed] I figured I%u2019d ask [laughed].
HP: No, I%u2019ll tell you what we did. Mr. Schenck--we were always off on the Fourth of July--everybody. He had Brackett%u2019s Cedar Park. We had it for the whole day. Some people were there for lunch and stayed through the time you came out. It was barbecue. Seems like we had fish also.
BB: Um-hmm.
HP: You just went up there and there was horseshoes and all this kind of stuff, and places to sit in the shade and watch the kids. Then they had a place for music and square dance, and the people really enjoyed that. But it was just that one time a year that we had that.
JC: What season in the year was it?
HP: July the Fourth.
JC: July the Fourth. Oh, OK. It was for the independence.
BB: Was that the time that you%u2019d recognize employees, like five-year, ten-year service, or did you just eat?
HP: We just ate--just go and eat%u2026
JC: %u2026A little square dance%u2026
HP: %u2026and take somebody to drive you home safely.
BB: Um-hmm.
JC: [Laughed].
HP: Listen, our crowd was not a bunch of drunks, but we had some that could be that title, but others that didn%u2019t. So, I%u2019ve got pictures of people up there. Mr. Bob Forney, he made pictures, or had pictures made. So, when he was--and he gave people a lot of pictures, but we went over to see him one day when he was sick, and before he died, he had his wife to get a briefcase, a thick hardback briefcase, and gave it to Forrest and said, %u201CI want you to give these pictures to people that you know.%u201D It was a bunch of pictures that we%u2019d had made at Brackett%u2019s. And he was there to mingle through the people that didn%u2019t always have an opportunity to see him. Bob didn%u2019t go out into the plant much, and Mr. Schenck didn%u2019t either.
JC: But their relationship was good--people were OK with everything?
HP: Oh, yeah. People, if they had a problem or a situation or something they wanted to talk to them about, Bob would see them any time, or Mr. Schenck, either one. They mingled a lot. It was more of a family type situation. Like I say, we had a lot of good people, and we had some people that just did the day and that was it.
BB: I might have missed this, but Jeff mentioned something about relationship and a bell rang. Was Mr. Forney related to the Schencks, or did he marry into the family, or was he just a--?
HP: No, he married an Ervin. You don%u2019t know him. God, he was the awfulest Algebra teacher I ever seen in my life. I was petrified of that man. He chewed tobacco, and he would come to the back of the room, and he%u2019d spit out the window. That%u2019s where I sat; I was trying to get as far away from him as I could. One day the wind was blowing my hair, and I pulled the window down and he came back and spit%u2026
BB: %u2026On the window%u2026
HP: %u2026on the window. It didn%u2019t bother him but it sure did us.
JC: [Laughed].
HP: But I was--he called me a blond-headed hussy.
BB: Did he?
HP: If he did that today, he would be under the jail. Anyway, that%u2019s got nothing to do with school, has it?
BB: [Laughed] HP: I mean work.
JC: Well, I mean, school was part of life, though, you know. You had to%u2026
HP: %u2026Well, you know I was thinking. I was just trying to think if anybody on the village went to college, and I just don%u2019t know. I just don%u2019t think so. My mother and daddy wanted me to go to college, but I didn%u2019t want to. I wanted to go to a music--just a music school. That was more money than you could expect, so--. Anyway, I came out with four children and three musicians, so--.
JC: That%u2019s good to know. Now you%u2019ve got your music. It%u2019s right here with you.
HP: Yep. We have a good time. I play the organ and they--. I%u2019ve got a grandson that is--will be a senior next year. He plays tuba and he has been chosen to play in the band at the Rose Bowl, and the inaugural celebration%u2026
JC: %u2026Wow%u2026
HP: %u2026marching. I wish he had a better inaugural one to go to. I don%u2019t know it%u2019s going to be a happy thing.
BB: It may be warm that day. You never know.
JC: [Laughed] HP: I think we%u2019re in a mess. What else do you want to know about the mill?
JC: Is there anything I haven%u2019t asked that you want to tell me? Sometimes I don%u2019t ask the right questions. I%u2019m figuring there might be a couple of things I ain%u2019t asked.
HP: No, like Tom was talking about, now on our street--now, let%u2019s see--we had ( ) and Daisy, OK, and ( ) Bivins. Now ( ) Bivins was sort of a hardhead. And then the Lails, us, and the Ledfords, the Edmondsons. I don%u2019t know, seems like we didn%u2019t have as much work that we had to do at home. We still had time to visit even though we had housekeeping and yards, and the normal things that you do. You know, we didn%u2019t--maybe Mother would go down and sit and talk with Mrs. Edmondson across the street. Well, just to tell you sort of how it was, Mother and Daddy and I went to Washington for a week, and Mother didn%u2019t lock the door. So, Mr. Edmondson lived across the street from us, and that bothered him, so he took his key and come and locked our door. When we got home, like three o%u2019clock in the morning, we couldn%u2019t get into our house. But I mean, it was that safe all the way around your house, it was%u2026
JC: %u2026Well, you knew everybody, right?
HP: %u2026Yeah%u2026
JC: %u2026Pretty much?
HP: Yeah, and--.
JC: It was a tight community it seems, how you%u2019re talking.
HP: But, like I say, our street, there was one, two, three, four, five, six houses. Out of those six houses, there was three people that went to church. On the other side of the street, nobody went.
JC: Why do you think that was? Do you just think they didn%u2019t grow up with it?
HP: Probably. See, well I guess you%u2019d say the people was not there, they just came in from out in the country.
JC: Right.
HP: Now, the Edmondsons across the street from me, they came from Georgia. You asked me if people came to work, and I don%u2019t know why they came from Georgia.
BB: Was that Bill%u2019s folks, Bill Edmondson?
HP: Bill Edmondson? Uh-huh.
BB: OK, I knew Bill.
HP: His mother and dad. And then Bill, he lived about two--he lived the second house above his mother and daddy across from us. He was a fine person. He was a fine person. All of them were. That%u2019s the thing about it; you could say we didn%u2019t have any scoundrels. We had people that it didn%u2019t bother them if there was a bunch of trash out in the front yard, but you just figured that%u2019s the way it was. But, I%u2019m not saying that we had a half a dozen that was like that. And, like the Camps, we had some that had more children than they needed, and they didn%u2019t know how to stop, I guess, so--. And then I couldn%u2019t have told them [all laughed]. No, I don%u2019t know what you want to know, and I seem to be having a hard day with thinking of names.
JC: You mentioned this earlier, and it%u2019s getting kind of late anyway, I figure.
HP: It%u2019s twenty after ten.
JC: Oh, is it? Or is that eleven?
BB: Twenty after eleven.
HP: Oh.
JC: Twenty after eleven?
HP: Excuse me.
JC: I%u2019m coming back in the end of August, early September. I was wondering, if you would get with me and Buzz and ride around one day, just through the village and around Lily Mill%u2026
HP: %u2026Sure%u2026
JC: %u2026and talk some more then, because it would be good, I think, to do that. It seems like a lot of having it in front of you and looking at it and explaining as we%u2019re going through would be really good.
HP: Well, it hurts me to go down through there. My children--the boys, they%u2019ll say, %u201CLet%u2019s ride down by Maw-maw%u2019s house,%u201D and I%u2019ll say, %u201CYou don%u2019t want to go.%u201D That%u2019s sad, but that%u2019s what it is. The whole area is not what it was, but, I%u2019ll be glad to.
JC: OK.
BB: Do you have any pictures, like shows the village, or you had taken pictures of the family, or pictures maybe of the plant that goes back?
HP: I%u2019ve got a picture of--well, it was Forrest%u2019s picture, and I forgot who gave it to him, but anyway it%u2019s--in the airplane picture%u2026
BB: %u2026Of the village?...
HP: %u2026of the village.
BB: Oh, OK. That would be good.
JC: That%u2019s great, yeah.
HP: It%u2019s hanging over his bed. Like I told Tommy, I%u2019ve got pictures of--just a lot of pictures. I%u2019ve got some pictures of when they have the--when you had been there fifty years. Maybe it wasn%u2019t that long. I%u2019ll have to look. I never did get that far. I worked that long, but I broke. They sent me at one time over to Shelby Box Factory--Buck Dover. I worked over there, but it was through the Lily Mill. So, I do have some pictures.
JC: OK. I know they%u2019re looking for pictures possibly to--at least a copy, you know.
BB: There%u2019s one other thing that I want to ask to be sure I understood early on. Your primary finished product, when you were talking about the labeling, is little spools of sewing thread, right?
HP: Um-hmm.
BB: But you did make other things?
HP: We made yarn that you crochet, and%u2026
BB: %u2026To knit with, and so forth?...
HP: %u2026Yeah, and they developed a thing that was a chenille, and yeah, people made tablecloths out of daisy. I%u2019ve probably got some daisy left up there in a drawer. Now, you were talking about the sewing thread. One of my sons lives in Robbinsville. I call it no man%u2019s land. He went into a store--right now I can%u2019t think of the name of it, but it was a department store there. Forrest knew exactly where Bryant was talking about, when he was talking about it being there. They have a cabinet of thread from the Lily Mill that Forrest put in there. But, what was so funny, the first time Bryant went, he said that he went in and there was an elderly lady--and she would have been elderly--sitting on a stool. She said, %u201CYou better get what you want. I%u2019m closing in five minutes.%u201D [All laughed]. Well, he said he didn%u2019t have to deal with her, as much the boys. There was two boys, I think. Bryant said he went over there and there was thread in the cabinet from the Lily Mill. He went back and took a picture of it. There is a movie that includes that store, and it focuses on that thread.
BB: Really?
HP: Um-hmm.
BB: You don%u2019t happen to have a spool of that, that you could show%u2026
HP: %u2026A spool of thread?
BB: Yeah, that you could show.
HP: Good gosh, yes.
JC: [Laughed].
BB: I mean, that was made down there?
HP: That was made at Lily?
BB: Yeah.
HP: Yeah, I wouldn%u2019t have had one that came from anywhere else [laughed].
BB: But I didn%u2019t know if you had kept any. I know I kept some of our mementos, but that would be a good thing to show--to show Jeff.
HP: I might have some packed in the box. The sewing thread was packed in a box, like this, about that long. I%u2019ve forgotten whether it was two to the box, and it%u2019s a cream color and it has the Lily insignia on it.
BB: Did you do a lot of twisting? The plied yarn, I call it, where you%u2019d take, like twenties yarn and ply three of them together, or was most of it single?
HP: I don%u2019t know, we had twenties, thirties, forties and fifties.
BB: Yeah, but it was mostly single yarn?
HP: See, I didn%u2019t understand that end of it. My daddy was in that end. I got out of the plant as fast as I could. No, I didn%u2019t ask to come out. He took me out and bounced me everywhere.
HP: Yeah, it sounds like you had a little bit of every job in the office.
HP: I did. I did.
BB: Now, Forrest--he might have mentioned this and he might have not, but did he have some customers that he pretty well all he had to do was go by and see, and they were going to order their amount, regardless of whether he saw them? How much did he have to do of drumming up new business?
HP: Forrest didn%u2019t worry about that. He was a good sales rep. He would just go in,
particularly in the Wal-Mart stores. Well, no, it was Woolworth stores. He would go in and check their stock, and he would write down what they needed. He%u2019d just go to the manager and he said, %u201CI think this is what you need,%u201D and he would say, %u201COK.%u201D But, now in the smaller ones, he didn%u2019t have to do a lot of selling because he didn%u2019t push people, but he would tell them of a new product that they had. I don%u2019t know whether you remember the name or not, but lord, I do--the Hancock stores. You know we had one over here, but gosh, in Mississippi and all down through there--. Now, Forrest did not do those. That was out of his territory. That was the big thing, but it was the sewing thread because they had--they produced fabric, but they did not sell them the crochet and knitting things as much. They ordered sewing thread, and Lily Mills thought they had to get it out yesterday. And I had to keep--that was another section I went into, to keep account of how many of each article that they bought.
JC: Sounds like a lot of work.
HP: [Sighed] Makes me tired to think about it. Makes me tired to think about it.
BB: Having all those yarns, you had to have a good dyeing operation. That, we haven%u2019t talked about.
HP: Well, dyeing was done at Lawndale.
BB: Oh, was it? So you didn%u2019t--you didn%u2019t--you made the yarn and--.
HP: No, Forrest just called and told them--that was when he was in another department. He called and told them how much he needed. Seems like, and I know Mary Margaret Bridges, Mary Margaret Sain--she worked with Lawndale a lot. It was just conversation all the time. But, yeah, Lawndale did the dyeing.
BB: Do you remember--we may not talk with anybody else that we can ask this question. Do you remember what they said the date--the year that the Lily plant was opened up? It was after Cleveland and maybe Double Shoals.
HP: Yeah.
BB: Was it since the turn of the century?
HP: [Long pause] Nineteen and--is that nineteen and three?
BB: Nineteen-and-three.
JC: Well, there you go [laughed].
HP: What else you want to know? [All laughed].
JC: When did it close?
HP: Eighty-two?
JC: Eighty-two?
HP: Wait a minute, wait a minute. No, let%u2019s see. I retired from Metropolitan in eighty-nine, and I had been there seven years. I went from Lily%u2026
JC: %u2026Straight over?
HP: Now, can you back that up?
JC: Sounds like eighty-two.
HP: OK, I think that%u2019s right.
JC: Yeah.
HP: And I know Forrest worked, I believe, two years after that. They had him to be the guard. He went through the plant.
BB: Security?
HP: Yeah, for two years. Then he went to the golf course and worked down there.
BB: OK.
HP: They offered them--the people an insurance package, but I didn%u2019t take it. Forrest and me did not take it, and the people that did, they were not happy with it. It had to go through Spindale because there was some kind of a spin-off from Lily to Spindale. In fact, Buddy Carter went to Spindale, and I don%u2019t know how long that lasted, but--.
JC: The families that still lived in the village at the time it closed--did they stay? Did most of them own their houses at that point?
HP: Oh, yeah, because by then they had bought them. So, most everybody--see, you%u2019ve got people that are gone, like my parents. I was an only child, and I didn%u2019t want the house. I doubt very seriously if there was any left there. I%u2019m thinking most of it is--now, the Parkers--. They%u2019re still there, and there%u2019s nobody on my street that is still there.
BB: Did you have a section on the mill village where it was segregated?
HP: No.
BB: You didn%u2019t have a segregated area?
HP: Nor did we%u2026
BB: %u2026You didn%u2019t have black families?
HP: No.
BB: OK.
JC: None worked in the mill, or--?
HP: We did have some blacks that worked in the mill, and that was another thing when I was personnel director, it was so--it was a time that you had to count every hair, and why did you not hire this one, and why did you fire this one? That was just such a headache for a monthly report that had to go in to the state, and a scary one.
JC: Because you basically had liability and all that.
HP: Yeah. I%u2019m not saying scary from the point of the black people--from Raleigh. Are you right, that you did the right thing? But, the worst thing in the world was--and they used to have a saying for that, on Monday morning when you went in. Now, Newlin Schenck--he pronounced it differently from me, so I don%u2019t know which one--. I called it %u201CAh-sha.%u201D
BB: He called it %u201CO-sha?%u201D
HP: Yeah. For them to be on your door on Monday morning would make you sick. The last time that I remember, they came to me, and the man had brought a little fellow that was coming on the board. They really made it hard for Lily Mills. They counted every nail head in the warehouse that was not pounded down, and they charged them for it. Now who goes around with a hammer in their hand, pounding down a nail? But that man was wanting to make a%u2026
JC: Sounds like the government didn%u2019t make it easy on the textile mills.
HP: Oh, no. No, they didn%u2019t. No, you just--.
BB: In your time, and maybe you would know this more from when you were in the personnel area--what was the number of employees? Do you remember the number of employees? Two hundred? Three hundred? How many you had?
HP: Gosh, no, I don%u2019t.
BB: But you had three shifts, right?
HP: Yeah. I would think we were closer to five.
BB: Five hundred? What about curtailing? Did you have much curtailing or did it run pretty consistent?
HP: Yeah.
BB: Ran pretty consistent?
HP: Yeah. We didn%u2019t have this thing of, %u201CDon%u2019t come in for five days,%u201D or whatever. What, maybe if this job was through, they would put them somewhere else.
BB: OK.
HP: I guess more in the finishing area, you didn%u2019t have that much in the cards. It seemed like those people were sort of tied to that, and just didn%u2019t have that much turnover.
BB: When you mentioned that the Lawndale plant did the dyeing for you, did you have goods going up there that came back and you did a finishing process?
HP: Right.
BB: You wound them on the spools or the--.
HP: Yeah.
BB: OK.
HP: They did the dyeing. We sent it up there, and they dyed it and sent it back.
BB: Did you send it on the cheese form, the bigger packages, the dye cheese?
HP: I really don%u2019t know how that.
BB: OK.
HP: No, I would think that they would just have a--like what would go on a frame. I would think it would be in that way, dyed that way and sent back, and then it would be put on and go down to the next thing.
BB: Did you put any of the yarn on beams, warper beams, which were five, six hundred pounds, or was it mostly--?
HP: I don%u2019t think so. I think it came back like it went.
BB: Yeah, I%u2019m sure it did.
HP: [Paused as she started drawing an illustration of what they have been talking about] OK, here is the thing, and it%u2019s like this, and that is a thing of yarn. You hang it over your arm, like that. Then when it comes back, you put it on this spoke thing and it goes there again, and then it moves over to something else.
JC: OK.
HP: Clear as mud, isn%u2019t it?
JC: I%u2019m getting it [laughed].
BB: It%u2019s probably on a dye sleeve. That%u2019s probably a dye sleeve there that%u2026
HP: %u2026See, he knows what I%u2019m talking about, and I don%u2019t [all laughed]. Don%u2019t you tell Selma anything that I said. Don%u2019t tell her how dumb I am.
BB: If she asks me if I know you, I%u2019ll tell her I%u2019ve heard of you.
JC: [Laughed].
HP: Heard of me over in Broughton (a North Carolina mental hospital) [both interviewers laughed].
BB: Selma is like Hilda%u2026
HP: %u2026Oh, lord...
BB: She don%u2019t mince words, does she? [both interviewers laughed] HP: Please tell me I%u2019m not as bad.
BB: No, she%u2019s the tops on that.
JC: When I mentioned I found out what the name of the bus that went up to Lawndale is called Hunt%u2019s Bus Line?
HP: Um-hmm.
JC: That%u2019s what this woman had written down that%u2019s how they got back and forth sometimes%u2026
HP: %u2026Um-hmm%u2026
JC: %u2026was Hunt%u2019s Bus Line.
BB: Yeah, I%u2019m glad you mentioned that because that brings another question to mind. When I was a kid, they had the city buses. I guess that%u2019s what they were called. You know, you could go%u2026
HP: %u2026They were city buses%u2026
BB: %u2026and then they got away from it, and now we%u2019ve gone back to%u2026
HP: %u2026Well, I wish we would%u2026
BB: %u2026well, they have this--what they call the County Transportation. It%u2019s not a bus--it%u2019s a van. They might can haul ten or twelve people.
HP: Yeah, yeah.
BB: But, I think you%u2026
HP: %u2026OK, the city bus--I mean that was fun. That was fun, and that%u2019s how I went to school in high school. The bus came to the company store, and it sat there for so many minutes, and you got on. Well, at lunchtime I walked from what is now the middle school in Shelby, to town, and I got the bus, and we went down and he stopped at the company store. I got off the bus, ran home and ate, and come back, and he took us back to town and I walked back to the high school on lunch period.
BB: Was there a fee for the students?
HP: Yeah, I think we paid ten cents.
BB: OK.
HP: That%u2019s where Newlin Schenck used to tell that him and me got on the back seat and that I was his sweetheart. His mother would have died. She was from New York and I would not have%u2026
JC: %u2026Passed muster? [Both interviewers laughed].
HP: You know what? That didn%u2019t bother me, and it did not bother Newlin. Newlin and me was friends, and he was friends with everybody at the mill. Newlin wanted the two of us to do a music--as I said, they--every Christmas, close to Christmas, the Schencks gave the employees that had been there so long--they had a dinner. Usually, my dad had a quartet and they would sing. They couldn%u2019t wait for the oyster--they called it oyster casserole--that%u2019s not what I call it, but anyway, it was good. One year, Mr. Forney said that they would not have oysters. I think they was seventeen dollars a gallon, or whatever. Lord, I%u2019d like to have some good oysters. I%u2019m allergic to shellfish, so I can%u2019t have them.
JC: Now you are?
HP: Yeah.
JC: What happened?
HP: I don%u2019t know. It was just a sudden thing, and I had always eaten them.
JC: I love some oysters myself. Mmm.
HP: Like I said, the lady that cooked out in the place that they got their sandwiches--she would make an oyster sandwich. Fry those oysters real crispy and cover them with ketchup. Lordy mercy.
BB: Mmm.
JC: I%u2019m going to get some oysters tonight! [laughed] HP: You think you died and gone to heaven. I%u2019ll tell you, maybe some people has bad memories of the Lily Mills, but I don%u2019t have any whatsoever.
JC: Sounds like a good time.
HP: There%u2019s some people that I could give %u2018em a good kick in the rear, but as far as treatment from the Lily Mills as to any that I was one hair better than this person right here. I%u2019m happy where I grew up. I%u2019m not happy with it now. It wasn%u2019t just the fact that we had lost our income, but we were losing our group closeness together. Now the girls in the office used to get together occasionally and go out and eat. And Frances has called me about that--that she has had somebody to approach her and, %u201CWhen are we going to get together?%u201D But after I went to work at Metropolitan, it was just a little hard for me to do all the things I needed to do. There used to be a steak house out on 74, about out where that service station is now. Do you remember that?
BB: Before Ryan%u2019s was on out the road. Ryan%u2019s was on out the road. You had the one where IHOP is now?
HP: No, I%u2019m talking about where that service station is out at the crossroads beside of the Ford place. It was on the other corner, I think. It was a steak house of which is gone now. We went out there a lot, and they gave us a nice place to eat and laugh and have fun. Speaking of that, I%u2019ve got a bag full of okra in my refrigerator that Frances brought me Monday%u2026
BB: %u2026Oh, really?...
HP: %u2026that I%u2019ve got to%u2026
BB: %u2026Work up?...
HP: %u2026work up. Golly, dang, Tom%u2019s trying to kill me [both interviewers laughed]. When we received friends when Forrest died and Frances was there and--so the kids, they don%u2019t know her--. I told them, of course they were all standing beside of me. I said, %u201CThis is the okra lady.%u201D Well, they all got out of line and come and hugged her [all laughed]. They love okra, so I fry it and put it in the freezer. We have it Thanksgiving and Christmas. And I%u2019m trying to find some Silver Queen corn, but I think I%u2019m too late.
JC: Yeah, it%u2019s getting late on corn. I love some corn. I love to eat anything, though.
HP: Silver queen corn, I would fix it%u2026
BB: %u2026Can%u2019t tell by looking at him, can you?...
HP: %u2026Nah, and I%u2019d have that. We%u2019ve got two Yankees in the family, and they don%u2019t know about biscuits, and so the first time the kids open up their biscuits and put the corn on it. They like that. Two Yankees, they %u201Ceeeh,%u201D but one of them has come around. He%u2019ll eat anything, about. No, he won%u2019t, but he%u2019ll eat more than he used to. And I hate for them to fix my tea glass. Neither one--they won%u2019t put but one cube of ice in there, and I want a glass of ice.
JC: Yeah, you%u2019re wanting to get it cold.
HP: Yeah, but they don%u2019t do that and I fuss at %u2018em every time. I said, %u201CFill the glasses with ice.%u201D
JC: You can%u2019t do nothing with Yankees.
HP: No.
JC: [Laughed] They%u2019re just going to do what they do--we do what we do, and hopefully, some of us will rub off on %u2018em [laughed]. We%u2019ve got folks in the family, too, that--it%u2019s different sometimes.
HP: Yeah, it is. It does differ your menu.
JC: Yes.
HP: Really.
JC: At the get-togethers, %u2018cause my cousin--his wife is from Pennsylvania, I believe. She brought spaghetti to Christmas get-together, and I%u2019m like, %u201CWe don%u2019t eat spaghetti.%u201D And then another time she brought lasagna or another noodle dish, and I%u2019m thinking, %u201CWhat do they eat up north at Christmas?%u201D
HP: Gosh, I%u2019ve got a granddaughter that, that%u2019s about all she eats, is spaghetti.
JC: Is spaghetti?
HP: Yeah, but she don%u2019t want the sauce on it.
JC: Huh.
HP: Her mother told her, %u201CYou%u2019re going to be as fat as I was in college.%u201D She%u2019s going to Carolina.
JC: Is she?
HP: Yeah. Friday.
JC: Friday--leaves Friday for school.
BB: Got orientation on Friday then.
HP: Honey, she already had the orientation. She%u2019s going to school.
BB: She%u2019s ready now to start. OK.
JC: They have the orientation ahead of time now.
HP: Yeah. They went two or three weeks ago because I know the younger daughter stayed with me while they went.
JC: I%u2019ll bet she%u2019s excited.
HP: Lordy mercy. I worry about her. I read in the paper where they said in the Observer people are trying to get onto the campus rather than living off. They were saying for the gas situation.
BB: %u2018Cause of safety.
HP: And of safety, too, since this girl was killed down there.
JC: I went to Carolina and honestly, that was unusual for Chapel Hill. It%u2019s one of the safest places, I think, in the whole area, as a town. I never ran across anything that was even close to--that, when she got killed it struck me as real unusual for that area, for that town especially.
HP: Well, I worry because Meagan don%u2019t believe bullhorns will hook. She just don%u2019t think on that--and it bothers me. She%u2019s in the Honors College, and she%u2019s in one of the closest dorms to the classes. I don%u2019t know what kind of dorm they call it. She has asthma, and she doesn%u2019t walk very well.
JC: Yeah, there%u2019s some right there in the middle of everything. Old East is a dorm, and Old West.
BB: What is the Towers?
JC: Yeah, there%u2019s Granville Towers and some of the others. Those are kind of the wave, but Old East is the oldest building on campus. They turned that into dorms, I think for honor students, a few years ago, and there%u2019s some others that are right there on the main.
HP: She was nominated for the Morehead Scholarship, but Tierney said when they got there, she knew why she didn%u2019t get it. She went to the last round that they go to, and she said because Meagan had not been in any kind of athletic thing, she thought that kept her from getting it. But, she got an Honors College scholarship.
JC: That%u2019s great. That%u2019s real great.
HP: Well, I thought it was great when they told her that her books would just be sent to her. She didn%u2019t have to go get them. [Both interviewers laughed]. They don%u2019t have to pay for them, %u2018cause books are two hundred dollars.
JC: If not more. My brother--he spent four hundred dollars one semester just on books. He%u2019s into science, so--.
END OF INTERVIEW

Transcriber: Mike Hamrick
Date: May 14th, 2009