J. MAX AND TEENA MCKEE
Transcript
TRANSCRIPT %u2013J. MAX AND TEENA McKEE
[Compiled August 17th, 2009]
Interviewees: J. MAX McKEE, TEENA McKEE
Interviewer: Brendan Greaves
Interview Date: August 5, 2008
Location: Shelby, North Carolina
Length: Approximately 37 minutes
INTRODUCTION: Brendan Greaves explained the objectives of the interview and that the complete interviews will be available in the Earl Scruggs Center Resource Library, among other sites, and how parts of interviews may be used in museum displays. Teena McKee suggested they go to the Bluegrass Inn to begin and then return to the house. Mr. Greaves agreed to make the short walk to the Bluegrass Inn after recording the McKees%u2019 place of birth and birthdates. A grandson was visiting at the time of the interview, so the usual sounds associated with a visiting grandchild are audible during the in-home portions of the interview.
BRENDAN GREAVES: I%u2019m Brendan Greaves. I%u2019m interviewing.
MAX MCKEE: And my name is J. Max McKee. I was born in Shelby, North Carolina.
BG: And what date was that?
MM: March 21st, 1948.
BG: All right.
TEENA McKEE: And I%u2019m Teena McKee. I was born in Shelby. I guess I will tell you my age. Okay, I was born in December the 21st, 1953.
BG: Okay. Thank you very much. All right, now we can move over (to the Bluegrass Inn #2), once we%u2019ve got that out of the way. I%u2019m going to bring my camera too, if that%u2019s okay.
MM: Yeah, that will be fine. Yeah. Yeah, I%u2019ve got several things I ought to show you, even up here [paused] %u2018cause we%u2019ve got videos and all that stuff here--people that%u2019s been through Shelby, playing music%u2026
TM: %u2026You%u2019ve got Josh and Kenny--Josh has worked with them so many years [ ]%u2026
BG: %u2026All right%u2026
MM: %u2026Mr. Raymond Fairchild--I was just talking to Raymond the other day.
TM: Are you familiar with him?...
MM: %u2026Me and Raymond just got through doing this%u2026
TM: %u2026And that%u2019s some articles on the wall from--we had one of Bluegrass Unlimited. That was that one thing on the wall right there.
MM: Yeah, [ ] that stuff.
BG: And that%u2019s--wow, look at all that stuff!
TM: Yeah, you can look at that when you get through. These--.
MM: Yeah, we were inducted in the Hall of Fame in Georgia, and the Carolinas last year.
TM: And that%u2019s [ ]. And now that article right there was Bluegrass Unlimited.
MM: Um-hmm.
TM: So, there%u2019s been different featured things over the years, you know. Some of them%u2019s all out here and just piled up.
MM: We got stuff everywhere.
TM: Oh yeah, we just got stuff everywhere. We don%u2019t%u2026
MM: %u2026And I didn%u2019t want to put that in the Bluegrass Inn because we%u2019re just out there November, December, January and February.
BG: Um-hmm.
TM: Too, a lot of times--we just brought it up here because if you notice, really, the decoration here really ain%u2019t a lot of music stuff, unless you go in the dining room; that%u2019s where all the instruments are at.
MM: Yeah.
BG: Okay, I%u2019ll check that out [laughed].
TM: Have to go check that out.
MM: We%u2019ll walk out there. [Recording continued as they walked the short distance to the Bluegrass Inn].
BG: All right.
MM: And it%u2019ll be warm in there %u2018cause I ain%u2019t got no air or nothing on. We stay on the road a lot, and staying on the road, I tried running this place when I wasn%u2019t here. They come up and they say, %u201CIs J. Max here?%u201D %u201CNo, we%u2019ll be back when he%u2019s back.%u201D And listen, I was taking all the money on the road to keep this place going%u2026
BG: %u2026Um-hmm%u2026
MM: %u2026and you can%u2019t keep doing that.
BG: Yeah. Ah, that%u2019s hard.
MM: Yeah. Now, I love traveling, gollee!
BG: [Laughed].
MM: And this is going to be a home base one of the days when I ain%u2019t able to go nowhere. You know how it is.
BG: Um-hmm, yeah.
MM: It%u2019s been here a good while.
BG: When did you open it up?
MM: Around %u201986. Now, we had one a year before that up in Polkville.
BG: Okay.
MM: And one in Mooresboro. It just wouldn%u2019t pan out, you know. So, there was an old body shop here and we took that thing, and me and Teena and the guy that worked for me--people that come here--. You know how they do. We all teamed up and we converted this place over, you might say.
BG: Um-hmm.
MM: From a body shop to a music place [Sound of metal clanking as Mr. McKee unlatched the door]. That%u2019s the truth. Now, we got stuff--. It will be warm in here now.
BG: [Laughed].
MM: Let%u2019s see if I can get it lit up. I%u2019ve got to remember how to do this.
BG: Ah, this is a great space.
MM: Oh, yeah. There%u2019s a lot pictures and stuff in here.
BG: Yeah, there sure are.
MM: Yeah.
BG: Wow!
MM: A guy told me the other day--he said, %u201CYou know, this would be a good place to shoot a TV show.%u201D
BG: I think so, yeah.
MM: That%u2019s what he said.
BG: Or a film or something, you know? It would be a good set for a film.
MM: People think it%u2019s little-bitty, but if you notice, it%u2019s a long building.
BG: Yeah. How many folks can fit in here?
MM: About a hundred-and-twenty-five.
BG: Wow! That%u2019s a good size.
MM: Yeah.
BG: It%u2019s a decent size.
MM: For this area this is good. You know what I%u2019m saying?
BG: Yeah.
MM: Because they don%u2019t turn out--. Most of our folks come here from South Carolina, Georgia, Florida--come here in the wintertime %u2018cause there%u2019s not nothing going on.
BG: Um-hmm.
MM: But we can start right here [began to show and describe various pictures and articles on the walls]. You know we talked about Hubert Davis from Shelby a lot. This is Hubert Davis.
BG: Oh, there he is.
MM: And this is the Bluegrass Inn in Nashville. And he always--comedy and acting--. That%u2019s what he%u2019s doing there, acting. He%u2019d draw the college kids, good Lord! He could draw %u2018em. There ain%u2019t no doubt about it.
BG: Yeah.
MM: And then, right there is Lester (Flatt).
BG: Yeah.
MM: Yeah.
BG: There he is.
MM: There%u2019s a picture from when they was in New York. And then Earl (Scruggs) right here, and Earl signed that one. Sure did. That%u2019s been a good while ago. Oh yeah, there%u2019s a lot of good stuff in this old building.
BG: Yeah, there sure is.
MM: Yeah, and then over here--this was a good group and they didn%u2019t last too long, called the Traditional Grass. They was from up north.
BG: Okay, yeah. I haven%u2019t heard of them.
MM: Yeah, they didn%u2019t last too long. And then, there%u2019s Bobby Jones, Dr. Bobby.
BG: Oh yeah.
MM: We did a thing--you know, sometimes he%u2019ll go with us. And there%u2019s Bill, and Bill--I%u2019m getting to--see how it%u2019s deteriorating all of a sudden?
BG: Yeah.
MM: I%u2019ve got to do something about that.
BG: That%u2019s weird. Is it just the heat, you think?
MM: Yeah, I think it is. That%u2019s the reason I told Teena that if they could use some of that stuff, we%u2019ll work something out; I don%u2019t care. You know what I%u2019m saying? And there%u2019s Clyde Moody, here at the--Chubby Wise; Kenny and Josh have been here; there%u2019s Earl. Let%u2019s see, where%u2019s some more big names here? There%u2019s Pee Wee Davis, Earl%u2019s first fiddle player. I can take you to a house over on the back line on Mitchell Street. They lived over there, and Earl and all of them would gather up, now you%u2019ve got to remember, before anybody knew Earl Scruggs.
BG: Right.
MM: And they%u2019d gather up in that house on Mitchell, and that%u2019s where you%u2019d find them on Sundays. They%u2019d pick all day long. I am serious. This is a group I worked with one time out of Georgia, the Larkin Family. They worked with Dolly Parton some.
BG: Okay.
MM: Yeah, and they come through here. There%u2019s Raymond (Fairchild), Ralph Stanley and me.
BG: Wow! That%u2019s a great picture.
MM: Yeah. Raymond said that%u2019s the best-looking men in bluegrass music today.
BG: [Laughed].
MM: [Laughed]. That%u2019s what he said. And then, the Gillis Brothers got hot one time. We worked with the Gillis Brothers, Jim Eanes; Carl Story, I think is out yonder. We%u2019ve worked some with Carl Story. Right here%u2019s a picture of back when Hubert and them had that TV station at Asheville back in the sixties. Sure is. There%u2019s Hubert and Pee Wee.
BG: What about this one?
MM: That was a Bluegrass Inn right there, where we first started.
BG: Wow!
MM: Yeah. Oh yeah.
BG: So how old are you in that picture, you think?
MM: Well, I%u2019m sixty, so you can figure back to %u201986.
BG: That was %u201986? Okay.
MM: Yeah, %u201986, %u201996, that%u2019s twenty years ago. I was young then, wasn%u2019t I?
BG: That%u2019s a good picture.
MM: Um-hmm. I was thinking about that the other day. I said there might be something you could use.
BG: Oh, I think so; I think folks will be interested in seeing some of this stuff.
MM: Yeah, yeah. Let me see, this is--there%u2019s Horace (Scruggs). That%u2019s when he had a write-up in the paper, but you can go to the paper; you know how that is. There%u2019s where we raised some money one year for the Kidney Foundation. We do stuff like that. There%u2019s a good picture of Lost and Found, of now. That%u2019s them girls now.
BG: Wow!
MM: I was with them a couple of weeks ago. Now, I love Don Gibson. I%u2019ve got more pictures; well, you can see, we%u2019ve--.
BG: Yeah, look at those too.
MM: Aw, yeah. Um-hmm. This would really be something to save, %u2018cause he%u2026
BG: %u2026You don%u2019t want that part to fall apart%u2026
MM: %u2026The Bluegrass Inn, yeah, so if I had to [ ]. That%u2019s my mom. Now, I meant to say that she played with us from %u201979 to 2005, and she passed away. That%u2019s not really Dolly Parton, but everybody thinks it is. That%u2019s a fake.
BG: [Laughed].
MM: And that%u2019s me. I had %u2018em believing. You know how it is.
BG: She%u2019s pretty realistic, though.
MM: It looks--I%u2019ll tell you [ ]. Okay, here%u2019s some more. There%u2019s Kenny Baker and Josh (Graves) when they were here. Sure is. That%u2019s a friend of mine, [ ], a comedian. Right there is me and Raymond, and I%u2019m thinking--. That%u2019s Lost and Found right there. You remember that group?
BG: Um-hmm.
MM: They%u2019ve been here. I%u2019ve got video of that somewhere. Curly--Curly Seckler, the Sullivan Family--. Just have to go through and--you know how it is. Some of it%u2019s big names; some of it%u2019s little names. You know how that goes.
BG: Um-hmm.
MM: Oh yeah. There%u2019s another picture of the Larkin Family. Charlie Sizemore has been here. I forgot about Charlie; he%u2019s been here. Eddie Adcock--me and him are pretty good friends. There%u2019s me and--that%u2019s an old Bluegrass Boy, Frank Buchanan. We played some together. Country Earl, if you ever heard of him--.
BG: I don%u2019t think I know that name.
MM: Okay. And then, let%u2019s see, there%u2019s Carl (Story). Yeah, me and Carl--I was a Rambling Mountaineer--me and the girls one time. Sure was. And there%u2019s Eddie again. There%u2019s one of the first bands we had. It was a big band back then. That was made right back there.
BG: Mmm.
MM: Sure is. James King%u2019s been here, but I%u2019ve got video; Carl Shiflett; I%u2019ve got a lot of people here. And there%u2019s more pictures out here [both laughed]. Oh, and Virginia Cross Ties here; now, they%u2019re a pretty popular group. They live next to Ralph Stanley up in the Ralph Stanley hometown. They come through every year and we%u2019re real good friends. Now that%u2019s the Crowe Brothers; they%u2019re a real hot band. And then, let%u2019s see what else I%u2019ve got. There%u2019s James again. That%u2019s a festival down in Marietta where we%u2019ve played. Sometimes they%u2019ll get me to put on a jam; I get all the bands out there. That%u2019s fun too; I%u2019ll tell you it is. And Joe Franklin, he wasn%u2019t from Shelby here. He was from Marion. He played American Bandstand on the Grand Ole Opry; just an entertainer is what Joe was. Joe said, %u201CI knew how to keep a good band and fake everybody out, thinking I was a great musician.%u201D [Laughed]. So he is a smart man; he was. Of course, you can see I keep up with Earl Scruggs. Yeah, Earl Scruggs, I love him like he%u2019s my dad [laughed]. I%u2019ll be honest with you. There%u2019s Kenny and Josh again right there. We%u2019ve got all kind--there%u2019s Carl right there. And let%u2019s see, this is the last suit that Lester Flatt wore on the Grand Ole Opry before he died.
BG: Wow!
MM: Yeah, it%u2019s on the back of one of my CD%u2019s. If you%u2019ll remind me, I%u2019ll give you some CD%u2019s. I%u2019ve got about fourteen different ones. There%u2019s about the second band at the Bluegrass Inn I had. Yeah, that%u2019s in a tavern in South Carolina. That%u2019s where the money was, you know; they had me on salary. I worked there about three years. Of course, I was real young there--late twenties.
BG: Hmm.
MM: Oh yeah, time flies. Yeah, that%u2019s about all the pictures I%u2019ve got out here.
BG: Right on. Thank you for showing me. I%u2019m going to take a couple of photographs if you don%u2019t mind.
MM: Yeah, you just--whatever you want to do.
BG: And then we can go back into the%u2026
MM: %u2026If you need to know who%u2019s what, I%u2019ll be glad to show you. We start our first show here the first Saturday of November, and it will be us and Virginia Cross Ties.
BG: Okay.
MM: What we do--Virginia Cross Ties has got a couple of shows they work up that way in Kentucky and all, so I work them down here a couple of days and then they%u2019ll work--you know how it is. We%u2019re like a big family. That picture right there is Hubert Davis and I don%u2019t know where you%u2019ll find another one of them at. That%u2019s the truth.
BG: Yeah, that%u2019s a great photo.
MM: Oh, he could pick. Oh yeah--definitely. But this would make a nice place for a TV show.
BG: I think so.
MM: I%u2019m going to have to go to pitching that. I just got through doing another movie; we was with Bobby Brown.
BG: Really?
MM: Aw, yeah. He%u2019s a trip, son.
BG: [Laughed].
MM: Yeah.
BG: How did that come about?
MM: You ain%u2019t got the tape on, have you?
BG: What%u2019s that?
MM: You got the tape on?
BG: Yeah, it%u2019s over here.
MM: Okay. Oh, it was great. Hey, he%u2019s one of the greatest fellows I%u2019ve ever worked with. He makes things happen and it%u2019s fun.
BG: Right.
MM: I hope that makes sense; it%u2019s fun. It%u2019s going to be on CMT, eight episodes, and it%u2019s called %u201CThe Outsider%u2019s Inn.%u201D
BG: The Outsider%u2019s Inn?
MM: Uh-huh. It will start, I believe they said August fifteenth or nineteenth, it will start coming on. It%u2019s about--they don%u2019t know what they%u2019re doing and they start running this inn.
BG: Uh-huh.
MM: And they%u2019re having a wedding, and Bobby--he don%u2019t know what he%u2019s doing, so he books thirty-two banjo players to play a wedding.
BG: What? [Laughed].
MM: Yeah, and they get into it at the wedding dance. Uh-oh! You know what I%u2019m saying?
BG: [Laughed].
MM: It%u2019s funny. Oh, it%u2019s funny. So if you get a chance to catch it
BG: Yeah, on CMT?
MM: There will be eight episodes.
BG: Okay.
MM: I won%u2019t be dressed in a suit like I usually wear; I%u2019ll be in overalls and a black cowboy hat.
BG: Okay, good. Can I get a picture of you on the stage?
MM: Why, sure. Oh, man, look how I%u2019m dressed.
BG: [Laughed].
MM: See, I usually got a cowboy hat or something on. Yeah, I%u2019m out of uniform, as they call it.
BG: That%u2019s okay.
MM: Let me get rid of these%u2026
BG: %u2026you%u2019re in plainclothes.
MM: Yeah.
BG: Thank you.
MM: Yes, sir.
BG: Yeah, these are mostly just so I can remember where I was and who I spoke to, and you know--.
MM: All right.
BG: We%u2019ll get some%u2026
MM: %u2026But remember %u201CThe Outsider%u2019s Inn.%u201D
BG: I will.
MM: I%u2019m telling you, when I went up there, I come in on the last day of the shoot.
BG: Um-hmm.
MM: I said, %u201CI don%u2019t know about this right here,%u201D until we got up there. Let me tell you, they got it happening. We had to go up in Gatlinburg; up in there is where they shot it at.
BG: Okay.
MM: In a big old mansion up there, and it was fun. I%u2019m telling you it was fun.
BG: How long was the shoot?
MM: Well, for us it was sixteen hours that day, but they%u2019d done been shooting several weeks before I got there.
BG: Right.
MM: I figure they%u2019ll take them shots--you know how they%u2019ll spread it out doing the episodes. And I had a broke foot.
BG: Oh!
MM: They had these steps; they wanted the banjo pickers down the steps and into the hall. I was glad I had a broke foot. That put me right in with cameras. You know what I%u2019m saying?
BG: [Laughed].
MM: Yeah, so it%u2019s fun, oh yeah. I started to ask you about Whitney Houston, too. I always liked her singing. That woman can sing, now.
BG: Yeah.
MM: This is Randall Helton too, while I%u2019m thinking about it. Randall is %u201Cwhat you see is what you get.%u201D I%u2019ll tell you a good one on him. He had a college degree and everything. This guy was really a genius, but he loved music. He took two guitars and an old pickup truck and traveled the United States. Well, we was at a festival working with him and an old fellow came up. He said, %u201CI%u2019ll bet you that Randall over there, I%u2019ll bet he ain%u2019t got a bit of education.%u201D I%u2019d say, %u201CHe%u2019s got about a third grade.%u201D All right, I went over there and Randall asked me, %u201CWhat did you tell that man?%u201D I said, %u201CHe asked me about your education. I told him you had a third-grade education.%u201D I thought he%u2019d fall over that place laughing. This guy was standing there, you know, and when he goes home at Nashville through the week, lawyers would come and get him and say, %u201CHey, help us out here%u201D--that type of guy. That old man, he thinks he%u2019s just got a third-grade education [laughed].
BG: Oh, that%u2019s funny.
MM: And Buck Trent, now, he%u2019s from Spartanburg, South Carolina while I%u2019m thinking about it. He was out in Branson and we were working out there for the Kendalls. We went out for breakfast one morning where he was at one morning, and he found out we was from Shelby. I never had met him. He treated us right; he bought breakfast. I mean, he did it all--super nice guy. Most all of these people in here are just people like us. They%u2019ll go out of their way %u2018cause they love what they%u2019re doing. They love the music. I%u2019m sort of partial to Lester and Earl; I%u2019ll be honest with you. I love %u2018em all, but them guys could do stuff. Man, unbelievable!
BG: That%u2019s true.
MM: Yeah, I watch a lot of--any old flick I can get on the internet anywhere, I%u2019m glued to it.
BG: [Laughed]. Yeah, there%u2019s some good stuff you can find up there, online.
MM: Oh, man yeah.
BG: Some good old films--.
MM: Yeah. You ever met Little Roy Lewis, Lewis Family?
BG: No, I haven%u2019t.
MM: Oh, man you need--he%u2019s a trip. He%u2019s telling me, %u201CYou know, me and Earl%u2019s good friends.%u201D [Spoke in a country drawl]. Now that%u2019s how he talks. I said, %u201CYeah, I know. I talk to Earl too, you know, when he%u2019s home and I get a chance.%u201D %u201CYeah, but I tell you right now, he can do things on a banjo can%u2019t nobody do!%u201D I said, %u201CLittle Roy, you ain%u2019t got to convince me of that!%u201D [Laughed]. That%u2019s what was funny; he was trying to convince me, and I%u2019m one that just eats that stuff up, you know. Anything I can find on Earl Scruggs--. Yeah, he%u2019s my hero, sure is.
BG: Yeah, an amazing talent.
MM: Yeah, him--I learn off a lot of his recordings, and that guy right there. I%u2019ve stayed at his house, and he taught me how to entertain and stuff. He says there%u2019s more to it than banjo playing, so that guy--more than I could ever pay him. I%u2019m serious. But he could pick now, and he was a good fellow too. He kept good bands. Earl Scruggs was his hero. They study Earl; anything that Earl and them did on them TV shows, he expects his band to do that. That%u2019s how it works. I know you%u2019re ready to get out of here; it%u2019s hot in here.
BG: It%u2019s hot. Man, I%u2019m sweating [laughed].
MM: I can turn the air on if you want to stay a while.
BG: We can go back to the house, that%u2019s%u2026
MM: %u2026You never know who is going to come in here.
BG: Yeah.
MM: You never know. The first time I met Curly Seckler was right here.
BG: Was here?
MM: Yeah, Curly came in one night and I was back there. I said, %u201CI know you.%u201D He said, %u201CI%u2019m the tenor singer for Lester and Earl.%u201D [Laughed]. I said, %u201CI knew I knew you,%u201D and after that we become real good friends. He%u2019d stay at the house. He got married again is the reason we don%u2019t see him like we did. He married Paul Warren%u2019s wife--the fiddle player for Lester and Earl.
BG: Okay. Now, didn%u2019t he play also with Don Gibson early on?
MM: I think he did.
BG: Yeah, I think that%u2019s what Bobby was saying.
MM: And Charlie Monroe, worked with him. I%u2019ll tell you, there%u2019s so many around here, I don%u2019t know if the courthouse could hold all you could dig up. [Sound of door latching as they left the Bluegrass Inn to walk back to the McKee home]
BG: I don%u2019t know how we%u2019re going to do it either.
MM: %u2018Cause it%u2019s like Smith Hammett.
BG: Yeah.
MM: He was one of the first banjo players around here, and Snuffy Jenkins, Smitty Ervin--a lot of people forgot about Smitty. He was from here and he played for Jimmy Dean, you know?
BG: Wow!
MM: Rex Brooks, gollee!
BG: Where does Curly live now? Is he around here?
MM: He%u2019s in Nashville.
BG: He%u2019s in Nashville.
MM: Yeah, he still lives in Nashville. Curly%u2019s about--he%u2019s about eighty-seven years old. I know he%u2019s in his late eighties; let me put it that way. He%u2019s been married several years, but he talked to me about getting married. I said, %u201CWell, Curly, I%u2019ve got to ask you; who are you going to marry?%u201D
BG: [Laughed].
MM: He said, %u201CPaul Warren%u2019s wife.%u201D I said, %u201CWell,%u201D you know, Paul%u2019s been dead for years, and I said, %u201CEverybody needs somebody.%u201D
BG: That%u2019s right.
MM: So he married her and they%u2019re still married and happy.
BG: Good. Good for them.
MM: Teena talks to him every December. That%u2019s his birthday, on her birthday. So, they get together. You know how that goes. [They entered the McKee home].
BG: [Laughed].
MM: Man, that building was hot.
BG: Sure was. It feels nice in here.
TM: Was it hot out there?
BG: Yeah, it was [laughed].
MM: Yes.
TM: Did you show him Mike Lattimore%u2019s picture?
MM: Gosh, I forgot to show him Mike.
BG: Might have missed that one.
TM: Mike Lattimore [ ]. He%u2019s in Nashville right now.
BG: Yeah.
TM: [ ]. I don%u2019t know if he%u2019s still working or not.
MM: Just make yourself at home. I%u2019m going to bring you something to show you something else while I%u2019m thinking about it.
TM: He%u2019s from up there around Lattimore, an older musician--used to work with our Dr. Pearson, the dermatologist, but we work with his daddy.
BG: Okay.
TM: Which, Mike used to play with his daddy. His name was Joe Franklin. About the time when everybody was going hungry in bluegrass, they kind of switched over. And he was on the Ed--I don%u2019t know if he ever worked the Ed Sullivan Show, but Joe was on the Ed Sullivan Show and he was on the--. How many shows was Joe on?
MM: Let me show you something.
TM: [ ].
BG: Yeah, yeah, but I%u2019m not as good as everyone around here [laughed].
MM: What I was going to show you about this--this is some of the first tuners that was made%u2026
BG: %u2026Oh, wow! Okay...
MM: %u2026over at the Lily Mill, and the reason I can prove that--the later on ones--I%u2019ve got a set of them--were smooth, you know. See, you can still see the bolt cuts on these.
BG: Yeah.
MM: And they came from the Lily Mill. Now, Raymond said Earl had these first; then Hubert Davis ended up with them; then my buddy, Raymond, and Raymond said, %u201CI%u2019m not drilling no holes in my banjo,%u201D so he give them to me for Christmas. Well, I already had holes in this one, so I got to thinking one day; I said, %u201CI%u2019ll pop mine out and put them in.%u201D So, that%u2019s the old cams [played some notes on the banjo, demonstrating the use of the old D-tuners that change the pitch of a string].
BG: Right.
TM: Hubert gave him that banjo.
BG: Uh-huh.
MM: [Continued to play notes on the banjo, using the D-tuners].
TM: You still got the Epiphone?
BG: That%u2019s amazing.
TM: See, Hubert gave him--Hubert Davis gave him that banjo and he learned to pick, and how the neck was small on that one--he was down on the beach in Florida to look at the women, and he kind of got half [ ].
MM: You want to look at it?
BG: Yeah, sure.
MM: Okay, you ain%u2019t going to hurt it.
TM: Old Epiphone--.
MM: I keep it put up mostly--picked it all them years--you know how you do.
BG: [Played notes on the banjo].
MM: Yeah, just flip it down [explained how to use the old tuners]. Let me show you. All right, they go out.
BG: Oh, okay, I see.
MM: Go that way and then back up.
BG: I see [played more notes].
MM: That%u2019s the slickest tuner you can buy, if you could buy them.
BG: What do you think the date is then, on these? Do you know? Do you have any idea?
MM: No, no.
TM: Okay, what year did Raymond--what year did Earl first start using the tuners?
MM: Well, the first recording, I believe he did %u201CEarl%u2019s Breakdown;%u201D he had them then.
His brother-in-law made his first set over at the Lily Mill.
TM: Right.
MM: Then Hubert worked there long enough at the Lily Mill--and this adds up; Hubert worked there long enough at the Lily Mill to get him a set of tuners made. See what I mean?
BG: Right.
MM: And quick as he got the tuners made, he quit and left. He said, %u201CMan, I ain%u2019t working; I%u2019m going to play banjo.%u201D [Others laughed]. I%u2019m serious.
TM: So, he went with the fellow first, %u201CLost%u201D John (Miller and the Allied Kentuckians).
MM: Yeah, I believe that%u2019s who Earl was first with.
TM: Who was Hubert with, Lost John too?
MM: No, Hubert went to work with Jim Eanes first.
TM: He went with Jim Eanes first.
MM: Now later on, I had those made [referred to banjo tuners]. You see, they%u2019re slick--no bolts or nothing. Make sense?
BG: Um-hmm.
MM: So, them there had so much history to them, I said %u201CI%u2019ll put them in that banjo,%u201D %u2018cause I use that banjo mostly for recording, and I put these up. These were made at PPG; that%u2019s where they came from.
BG: Okay.
MM: Back then, Dean Ayers made these. Dean, he%u2019s dead now, and I wished I had made--got him to make me a couple more pairs. He was charging us twenty bucks for them.
BG: Really?
MM: Ain%u2019t no telling what it would cost to get them made now.
BG: Yeah, I%u2019m sure.
MM: And now these are Don Reno%u2019s. Don Reno would not drill a hole in his banjo. I don%u2019t know how I got my hands on these, but I did. They came from Raymond Fairchild. Now look there; that%u2019s sophisticated-made there.
BG: Oh, wow! Look at that.
MM: Yeah, I know it. %u2018Cause I said whoever made these--.
BG: Yeah.
MM: %u2018Cause look at the difference in it.
BG: Yeah.
MM: These is heavy.
BG: Um-hmm.
MM: These are lighter.
BG: Yeah, they%u2019re much lighter.
MM: Um-hmm. But they were made--Don Reno carried them in his case, and he just wouldn%u2019t drill--I don%u2019t blame him, you know, as far as drilling the holes.
BG: Yeah.
MM: But my Epiphone already had the holes is the reason I didn%u2019t mind putting them in it.
BG: Right. Yeah.
MM: So anyway, that would be something interesting.
BG: Yeah, definitely. I think people would love to see these.
MM: When I play that Epiphone banjo--I have banjo pickers gather up all the time, %u201CWhat kind of tuners are them?%u201D
BG: [Laughed].
MM: They pick up on that quick as they see that.
BG: It sounds great, that banjo.
MM: Oh, hey, they%u2019ve got a better sound than our Scruggs--what we call Keith-Scruggs.
TM: Is that the one you played at the Gibson Theater?
MM: Yeah.
TM: Oh, you ain%u2019t going to believe this.
MM: Yeah, I decided--we had to play for Gibson USA in Nashville. So, I%u2019ve got two Granadas, and I said, %u201CYou know, I want to play my Epiphone up there.%u201D So I played up there, and we got through that night; that guy said, %u201CWhen we book you back, don%u2019t worry about bringing a banjo; we%u2019ll furnish that.%u201D He said they was going to start filming and they wanted all Gibson. I said, %u201CWell, Epiphone is Gibson.%u201D They said, %u201CThat%u2019s an old Epiphone, though. We want to see our new Gibson name up there [others laughed]. %u201COkay.%u201D
TM: [Laughed]. Whatever, you know?
MM: It%u2019s funny what you can get into in life.
BG: Yeah. Yeah, sure is.
TM: [ ] Mike Lattimore%u2019s picture. He%u2019s from over at Lattimore. He%u2019s been--that%u2019s all he%u2019s ever done, ain%u2019t it?
MM: I could show you where Earl was born and lived. Then he moved from there right over here. I don%u2019t know the name of the street, but I%u2019ll take you right to the house; it%u2019s pink. Then, they%u2019d go over to Mitchell Street on Sunday. Him and Peewee and all, they%u2019d gather up, and the Hubert I talked about was a little boy. He said, %u201CI want to tell you something. I was a little boy, and he sounded like ten men playing.%u201D That%u2019s what he told me--ten men. And I%u2019ll tell you a good story, now; I stir up bluegrass sometimes. Hubert said, %u201CWhere do you think bluegrass was born?%u201D I said, %u201CBill Monroe.%u201D He said, %u201CI%u2019m going to prove you wrong.%u201D He said, %u201CNow I want you to listen good.%u201D He said Bill Monroe was going around the country with Stringbean (David Akeman)--you know he played claw (hammer), old framming (also referred to as frailing) banjo, and had an accordion%u2026
BG: %u2026Right%u2026
MM: %u2026He said, %u201CI was a little boy here, in this house right here.%u201D We was sitting right there in that house, and he said Earl Scruggs come over here--Peewee Davis, Grady Wilkin, Larry Causby--. And he said, %u201CTell me where the bluegrass is now if Bill had an accordion and all, and these guys over here are playing %u201CTwo Dollar Bill%u201D and knocking the walls down.%u201D And he said, %u201CNow, tell me where bluegrass was born.%u201D
BG: Hmm. Interesting.
MM: I thought about that. It%u2019s a thought, ain%u2019t it?
TM: There%u2019s Mama. Come on. We%u2019ll see you in a little bit [Grandson%u2019s mother came to pick him up].
MM: But he said that--I made Raymond Fairchild get up out of a recliner. It tore him up when I told him that. Then he looked at me and he said, %u201CYou know, you%u2019re right. Without Earl Scruggs--.%u201D
BG: Right, right.
TM: But everywhere we go--every time we%u2019re introduced from Shelby--first thing comes out of people%u2019s mouths--Don Gibson and Earl Scruggs.
MM: Yeah.
BG: Um-hmm.
MM: They ask about them all the time.
TM: They ask about them all the time.
BG: Yeah. Well, they%u2019re giants.
TM: Yeah, you know that%u2019s what they ask about. Talking about Don, you went to see [ ] with Billy last night?
BG: Yeah, Bobby, yeah--.
TM: Bobby--see, my uncle--we had--Don and I had the same uncle.
BG: Okay.
TM: We weren%u2019t related, but his mama lived down here on Cameron Street across from the house. That%u2019s where his mother lives. He%u2019d come in, you know. That was the first reel-to-reel I%u2019ve ever seen. You know, the big reel-to-reel?
BG: Um-hmm.
TM: So, he would come in; he wasn%u2019t no big deal. You know what I%u2019m saying? But, he%u2019d say, %u201CY%u2019all want to play guitar?%u201D We said, %u201CNo, we want to go out there and play ball.%u201D Never was interested in music--. He%u2019d go out there and play ball with us in the back yard, but that%u2019s when he was married to the other wife. [ ].
BG: Um-hmm.
MM: Bobbi (his widow).
TM: Bobbi, she was a cute little black-headed girl too. But, now this is--it%u2019s really funny %u2018cause I had no idea of playing; I had no interest in it at all.
BG: Yeah. How old were you then?
TM: Gosh, I hadn%u2019t have been--hadn%u2019t been ten, nine--ten, eleven, you know? Then he%u2019d say, %u201CWe%u2019re going to take you to Nashville during the summer months.%u201D Well, listen--my parents --I wasn%u2019t going nowhere. See [laughed]?
MM: You know, Brendan, a lot of time Earl will take--and now, say we%u2019re going to do a fiddle and banjo tune. Where that comes from was back--you%u2019ve got to remember before anybody knew Earl Scruggs, him and Peewee would go out and play dances, just a fiddle and a banjo.
BG: Just the two of them?
MM: Yeah.
BG: Hmm.
MM: That%u2019s where all that got started.
BG: Right.
MM: I wish Peewee was living. He has told me stuff--make chills run up your spine.
BG: When did he pass away?
MM: Last year.
TM: Last year.
MM: Sure did.
TM: He could tell you some good stories%u2026
MM: %u2026Um-hmm%u2026
BG: %u2026I%u2019ll bet%u2026
TM: %u2026about the old-timers, you know.
MM: Larry--uh, Causby%u2019s gone. Leonard told me a lot of stuff, sure did. He said, %u201CWe%u2019d be going to work at the Lily Mill, and I%u2019d pick Earl up. He said, %u201CMan, we%u2019d go early and that way we could pick up %u2018til time to go to work.%u201D
TM: See, Horace could have told you some good stories; he%u2019s dead.
BG: Um-hmm.
MM: I know.
TM: Horace could have told you some good stories.
MM: I%u2019ll tell you a good story on Horace. One time I had some friends come in from Florida; one played dobro, and one, bass. We didn%u2019t have a guitar player. Tina was going shopping, see, with the ladies. I said, %u201CWell, I%u2019ll just call Horace Scruggs.%u201D They said, %u201CYeah, you know Horace Scruggs.%u201D I said, %u201CWell, if you want a guitar player, I%u2019ll call him.%u201D So I called over there, and I knew--I know Earl was there %u2018cause Horace said, %u201CI can%u2019t get over there; I%u2019ve got company.%u201D I said, %u201CI was going to let you bring your company. We%u2019ll pick a little bit.%u201D He said, %u201CI don%u2019t know whether I%u2019ll get there.%u201D So, it wasn%u2019t long before the doorbell rung and I told Jackie--Jackie Hill; I said, %u201CJackie, go answer the door and see who%u2019s here.%u201D I didn%u2019t know it was Horace. Horace had eased off and come over here, and (Jackie) opened the door. Jackie said, %u201CCan I help you?%u201D He said, %u201CI%u2019m Horace Scruggs.%u201D Poor ole Jackie liked to fainted. I%u2019m serious. I had to go get Horace and tell him to come on in here. I had them boys shook up.
TM: But tell him when he left, what he told you.
MM: Yeah, we went out on the front steps there and he said, %u201CEnjoy me now.%u201D He said, %u201CEnjoy me now.%u201D That%u2019s what he told me.
TM: %u2018Cause he was getting a lot of health issues?
MM: Yeah. I just didn%u2019t know--.
BG: Yeah.
TM: We didn%u2019t know how bad.
MM: I wish I had spent more time with him now. You just think a person%u2019s going to live forever, you know?
BG: Yeah.
TM: You take people for granted. They won%u2019t always be here.
MM: Right.
TM: Same with Bill Monroe. Every time we%u2019d be--Max said, %u201CWe got to go see Bill %u2018cause he can%u2019t live too much longer.%u201D Well, he%u2019d been saying that now on fifteen years, you know?
BG: He%u2019s amazing.
TM: And he was still going strong. Bill was still going strong up %u2018til just about he died. He played at Hubert Davis%u2019 funeral.
MM: Yeah, I know. When Bill passed away, my buddy, Randall Helton went over to the funeral, and he called me. He said, %u201CYou ain%u2019t going to believe where I%u2019m at.%u201D Me and him are all the time going on a bunch of junk, and I said, %u201CWhere you at?%u201D He said, %u201CI%u2019m at the funeral home.%u201D I said, %u201CFuneral home?%u201D I said, %u201CAw, come on!%u201D He said, %u201CNo, no kidding, I am.%u201D I said, %u201CWhat are you doing over there?%u201D He said, %u201CThey said Bill was dead,%u201D and (he) said, %u201CYep, he%u2019s dead. I%u2019m standing right here feeling of him. He is dead.%u201D He sure told me that. %u201CCause a lot of times they%u2019d start that rumor, you know.
TM: But he played at Hubert%u2019s funeral, Hubert Davis%u2019 funeral%u2026
MM: %u2026Right%u2026
TM: %u2026right by himself with a mandolin. What all did he play?
MM: He played %u201CWayfaring Stranger%u201D and %u201CThe Old Crossroads.%u201D
TM: Prettiest you%u2019ve ever heard.
BG: I bet.
MM: Um-hmm.
TM: Just right by himself.
MM: Nobody had a tape recorder.
TM: Him and [ ] done his funeral.
BG: Wow.
TM: See, Hubert didn%u2019t go to funerals. He just didn%u2019t do funerals, did he?
MM: No.
TM: One time he was over staying, and him and [ ] were fussing about going to a funeral or something. Hubert said, %u201CI ain%u2019t going to no funeral. I ain%u2019t going; I%u2019ll sit in the car; I%u2019m not going.%u201D
BG: Wow.
TM: He was just funny about funerals.
MM: Yeah.
TM: So, she said, %u201CWell, I guess you die, nobody going to come to yours.%u201D The place was packed. Anybody and anybody in Nashville was there at that funeral.
MM: Jesse McReynolds, Jim (McReynolds) and Jesse too, all the big stars--. I knew they%u2019d be there.
TM: They just respected him.
MM: %u2018Cause he had the Bluegrass Inn in Nashville, see, and they%u2019d come out and he%u2019d get them up on stage. You know how you do, just courtesy, you might say, and they thought a lot of him, so--. And I%u2019ll tell you something else too. I was there on a benefit play and there was a check came there. I reckon it%u2019s all right to tell this, but it was for five hundred dollars. I said, %u201CLet me see that check.%u201D Earl Scruggs. I just stood there and held that check for a long time. It wasn%u2019t the price; it was just %u2018cause I knew he had signed that check.
BG: Yeah.
MM: Yeah, he said, %u201CFive hundred dollars,%u201D and I said, %u201CThat%u2019s what kind of person Earl Scruggs is.%u201D
END OF INTERVIEW
Transcriber: Mike Hamrick
Date: August 17th, 2009
This interview contains information about several musicians in Cleveland County, especially those that played or still play Bluegrass. Well-known musicians J. Max and Teena McKee run the Bluegrass Inn #2 in Shelby. Both have been inducted into the Atlanta, GA, Country Music Hall of Fame, have won several other awards over the years, and continue to perform over a wide region of the country.
During this interview Max takes the interviewer through the facility, showing him pictures—many of them signed by the artists—of Lester Flatt, Earl Scruggs, Clyde Moody, PeeWee Davis (Earl’s first fiddler, according to Max), Horace Scruggs, Don Gibson, and other well-known musicians.
Max also shows the interviewer some of the first tuners that were made for the banjo, explains that Earl Scruggs used them and that they had been made by Earl’s brother-in-law at Lily Mill. Max plays a little on his Epiphone banjo which has old tuners.
During the interview Max makes a case for Bluegrass being born with Earl Scruggs, Pee Wee Davis, Grady Wilkin, and Larry Causby “knocking the walls” down playing “Two Dollar Bill.” The interview has interesting tidbits on various musicians, including Earl Scruggs and Don Gibson.