MAUDE GREENE

TRANSCRIPT
(Compiled June 2009)

Interviewee: Maude Greene with daughters Jackie Weathers and Mary Greene

Interviewers: Jeff Currie with Buzz Biggerstaff

Interview Date: August 15, 2008

Location: Shelby, NC

Length: Approximately 86 minutes

Jeff Currie: Okay, could everybody just state who they are--say your names and

everything.

Jackie Weathers: I'm Jackie Weathers. I'm Maude Greene's daughter. Tell 'em your

name.

Maude Greene: Maude Greene.

JC: Okay.

Mary Greene: I'm Mary Greene. I'm Maude's daughter.

JC: Okay. And this is Friday, the--

JW: Fifteenth--

JC: Fifteenth of August. And we're here at Cleveland Pines. And I guess we'll start

out--Miss Maude, where did you grow up at?

MG: Where'd I grow up at?

JC: Yes, ma'am.

MG: In eastside--this part of Shelby, the east part of Shelby.

JC: So what was it--what was Shelby like back then--when you were young?

MG: What was?

JC: What was Shelby like?

MG: It's good!

JC: It was good?

MG: It's always been good.

JC: What kind of--go ahead--you all can answer the question--

JW: Did they have dirt roads or paved roads?

MG: What?

JW: Did they have dirt roads or paved roads?

MG: They had dirt roads.

JW: We had a dirt yard that you swept every day, too, didn't we? That's when I was

little, and I'm sixty-three.

MG: But they paved the roads--streets--built Shelby up--and all good.

JC: So, were your parents from Shelby?

MG: What?

JC: Were your parents from Shelby?

MG: Well, say Cleveland County.

JW: Polkville.

JC: Cleveland County--Polkville?

JW: Yeah.

JC: Did they farm, growing up? Your parents--did they farm, growing up?

MG: I farmed.

JC: You farmed, growing up?

MG: Sure.

JC: Out in Polkville?

MG: I farmed and worked in the mill, too.

JC: So what was it like, working in the mill?

MG: Was good.

JC: It was good?

MG: Yes, it was.

JC: Why was it so good?

MG: Well, I got good pay. That's the main thing. I was getting paid. And I

worked%u2014went in and worked. I had a six-room house--big yard--big garden--

JW: Big garden. She plowed with a--

MG: Big garden--and I had put out fruit trees. I canned--I

JW: We worked--

MG: Had to go to the store to get sugar or flour.

JC: That's the only thing--

MG: And coffee. [laughter]

JC: And coffee--

MG: Couldn't raise coffee.

JW: And we walked everywhere. Mama never drove. We walked to church, which

was close. The mill was just a block or so away from us.

JC: Right.

JW:--where I grew up.

Mary G: Walked to the library every week and got us --she made--we all read. Loved

to read, and we got us a big stack of books.

JW: That's right.

MG: Sure did.

JW: And in the summer when we walked to the grocery store, we'd buy a big case, a

thing of ice cream and take our spoons. And halfway home, we'd sit on a wall and eat it

because it was starting to melt.

MG: In the summer time, we walked--we walked, winter and summer.

Mary G: Yes, we did.

JC: All the time.

MG: Yes.

JW: Mama, tell him when you started working in the mill.

MG: I was fourteen.

JW: Had to stop school, but she taught herself to read and write and she's very smart.

Always wanted to be a teacher.

JC: You said the pay was good, but was--how hard a work was it, especially

compared to farm work. Was it harder or better?

MG: It was better.

JC: Why is that? Why was it better than farm work?

MG: Well, I was in a building with a lot of people. We enjoyed working together.

And farming, I was out there in the field--

JC: Right--

MG: I liked it, and I loved it. But it was different from being in here with people.

JC: Right. So, what was your job in the mill? What did you start out doing?

MG: Well I started--what I did--I wind--worked in twister room--sweep--cleaned-

-I did everything but worked in the weave shop. I didn't ever work in no weave shop.

JW: She mostly--most of the time, you were a winder, weren't you? Wasn't that what

you did the longest? And I don't know if you are familiar with it--the long frames--she

walks up and down and she's got these little attachments on her pants, and she ties the

bobbins off and takes them off. She was fast.

Buzz Biggerstaff: Time he gets done with me, he's going to know how to doff, spin,

frame, and everything.

JW: Good. [laughter] That's good because--you don't realize it--we--the Dovers,

who owned the mill--

MG: They's good to us.

BB: Um-hmm.

MG: They was good to me.

JW: And she was good to them. But they would hire children in the summer--older--I

mean, when you were of age. And they would let you work there. So we all got a taste

of it. And my first taste was--I will work on a trash truck before I will work inside this

building. I did not like it. Because at that time, the windows had all been sealed up.

JC: Right.

BB: Right.

JW: And they didn't stop. I mean, they worked almost non-stop. Had a very short

lunch break. Had a very short lunch break.

MG: Yeah.

JC: Did you work the twelve-hour shift? Did you work a twelve-hour shift?

MG: Yes.

BC: Twelve hours. In the mornings, did you work first shift?

MG: I worked third most of the time, because the children was little.

BC: Right.

MG: When they was little--when--see, they was in the bed when I was at work,

I knew where they was at. 'Course, I didn't leave them alone. My mama was with them.

JC: Okay. So your mama moved in with you in the house.

BB: Excuse me. Did you work eight hours or twelve--did you?

MG: Eight.

BB: Twelve came later.

MG: Worked twelve hours. Then eight came later.

BB: Oh--okay.

MG: Worked twelve hours.

Mary G: When you first started, it was twelve?

MG: Huh?

Mary G: When you first started, it was twelve-hour shifts?

MG: Yeah.

Mary G: And then they cut it back to eight.

MG: Eight. Right.

JW: And she would come in in the morning at six--it was six o'clock she got off,

wasn't it? Fix our breakfast. We never had toast--we had biscuits. Then she would send

us to school. We walked to school, which was close by. And then, she went to bed. Got

her--

JC: Okay--while you all were at school during the day.

JW: Yeah.

JC: So--I'm sure you got married back then, so who--when did you get married?

JW: When did you get married, Mama?

MG: When did I get married? I believe--was I twenty-one--

JW: I think it was twenty or twenty-one--I don't even know.

MG: I think I was twenty-one.

BB: So that would have been 1910--1909--

JC: No, no--

Mary G: No. She was born in 1912.

BB: Twelve--

Mary G: No--1908. If she was twenty-one, she was--

JC: 1928--

BB: It would have been around 1930--

JC: 1929, 1930--

MG: And lived in the country after I got married. Lived up--out in the country.

Farmed and worked in the mill, too.

JW: Which mill did you work in, then, Mama? Esther?

MG: Esther.

JW: Just came down to work--okay.

JC: So, you would farm and work in the mill. So you'd farm during the day and then

come into the mill in the evenings?

MG: I worked--I come in. I slept in the morning. But I worked--when I was farming,

I worked in the field. And I worked on the third shift in the mill at night.

JC: About how old were you when you moved into the village in town?

MG: I think--I've lived here all my life.

JC: --from the farm--from the country. When you moved from the country--

MG: I lived in town all my life. Got married and moved in the country--

JC: Oh--

MG: And farmed and worked in the mill, too.

JW: Then, when did you move back to town--when we moved to Buffalo Street?

Mary G: I was--

MG: You was--

Mary G: No-I was in the first--it was after I was in first grade, because I started first

grade in Baltimore.

JW: Okay. They went to--

Mary G: It was--oh, I tell you--it was--what year did World War II start?

JC: Forty-one.

Mary G: It was about forty-two--

JW: 'Cause Mama and Daddy moved to Baltimore for a while.

Mary G: Short while.

JW: I was just telling them, you lived in Baltimore for a short time.

Mary G: She moved back about 1942.

JC: A lot of people went up to Baltimore around that time.

JW: Really?

JC: In the late thirties, early forties--yeah.

BB: Buffalo Street was part of the village--the mill village?

Mary G: She did not live in--we did not live in mill housing.

BB: Okay.

JW: We called it the mill hill or mill village--

Mary G: Yeah, it was--

JW: But it wasn't like Ora and Doran--where they had the houses that they actually

rent out--my brother had one of those and they paid so much per room.

JC: Uh-huh.

JW: But we lived in rented houses. The first one that I remember was on a curve on

Buffalo Street. You know where that is. And then--when I must have been--I wasn't in

school--and Mama and Daddy and Uncle built a house on Dover Street. And the house

was on the corner. Baseball field was--owned by the mill--was over in front of us. And

then, the mill was literally a walking block away--Esther Mill. So we were one block

from the Esther Mill.

JC: Okay. So you were on the outskirts of the village in a way.

Mary G: There wasn't an Esther village.

JC: There wasn't an Esther Mill--

Mary G: Esther Mill did not have a village.

JC: Okay.

Mary G: Of company houses. They might have owned some company houses--I

never did know of any.

JW: But if you asked anybody, they'd say, "I came from Esther Mill."

JC: Um-hmm.

JW: Millville or mill village or whatever--but it's a little bit different than those that

actually had houses.

BB: ( )--they had their own houses.

JC: So, what did you all do when you weren't in the mill? Did you all go to church?

Mary G: Lord--

MG: Did we what?

JW: Did you go to church?

MG: Go to church?

JC: Yes, ma'm.

MG: Every time the door opened. [laughter]

JW: You got that right. Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday. Sunbeams.

Choir practice.

Mary G: I told her we ought to get the job of janitor because we was there more than

he was.

MG: What?

Mary G: I said I told you one time we ought to get the job of janitor of the church

because we was there more 'n him.

MG: Yes.

JC: So what church did you go to?

MG: Eastside.

JC: Eastside Church?

Mary G: Eastside Baptist.

JW: Which was about four blocks from us.

MG: Yeah. My children was raised up to go to church.

JC: What kind of activities did the church have? I mean, going on during the week

and throughout the year. What kind of things did the church do?

MG: We done--well--

Mary G: Vacation Bible School.

JW: Vacation Bible School.

Mary G: We had G.A.'s and R.A's--

JW: Sunbeams--

Mary G: Sunbeams.

MG: Yeah--we had good programs.

JC: Good programs?

MG: Good programs.

JW: And at Christmas they gave out bags of fruits and nuts to every family.

MG: Yes.

JW: And, they--we had a playground.

JC: Um-hmm.

JW: And often we'd walk up there and play on the playground when nothing was

going on. And in the summer they had Vacation Bible School with wonderful lemonade

outside. Uh--yeah, so we went to church all the time.

JC: Did the churches take care of the families in the community if they were having

problems? If they were down--

MG: Did they take care of the people?

JC: Of the families in the church?

MG: Sure! If they needed--

JC: What kind of things would they do?

MG: Whatever we needed.

JC: Whatever you needed?

MG: Yes.

JC: Buy 'em food?

MG: Huh?

JC: Buy 'em food?

MG: Sure!

JC: Yeah.

MG: But I never did need. I had a garden. I raised food and canned my food. And%u2014

but if I'd needed it, the church was there.

JC: Right.

Mary G: They had other people that needed things.

MG: Yeah.

JW: And they took care of their preachers--church congregation--

JC: They had, like a parsonage, and everything?

JW: Yes--and they always drove nice cars.

JC: Who built the church? Did the people build the church or did the mill?

MG: No. The people built it.

JC: The people built it?

Mary G: But the Dovers contributed.

JC: Okay.

MG: Let me tell you. Dovers owned the mill and the land--you know. They was

really good--the church or church workings or church workers--they was with 'em, helped

'em, and stood by 'em. The Dovers was really good to the churches.

JC: Did--go ahead--

JW: Mama, tell him about when we used to have--we heated with coal and what they

did--what you did with the coal--

MG: Coal?

JW: Um-hmm. When we used to use coal to heat and all?

MG: Yes--yes--

JW: She got it--they delivered it to our back yard, and the Dovers just took, monthly

or weekly, money out of her pay check.

JC: Right--

JW: --to pay for it. So--

JC: So they had a delivery system, kind of?

JW: Well, they just worked it out with the Lutzes or ( ) or whoever was in

town.

JC: Um-hmm.

JW: And they would deliver it. And then Mama wasn't forced to pay totally up front.

JC: Right.

JW: We also had a jot-'em-down store--was that old jot-'em-down store owned by the

mill, Mama--initially?

MG: Which one?

JW: The little store where we called 'em jot-'em-down? And if we went in to get

candy, we got a one-cent cookie--they put it down and you paid for it at the

end of the month. Was that owned by the store--I mean, by the mill, or was that--

MG: No--

Mary G: Clyde Poston owned that.

JW: Okay.

JC: Poston. What kind of stuff did they have in there, in the store?

MG: Everything!

JC: What do you mean by everything? Tell me everything--

MG: Everything you wanted.

JW: Candy, milk, cokes--

MG: Sure--everything--

JC: Is that where you bought your sugar and flour?

MG: Listen. I raised my own chickens. I raised one pig and one cow. I had my own milk, my own butter.

JW: Ducks--

MG: But I had to go to the store, and I had my garden. My fruit trees. But I had to go

to the store to get sugar and coffee and flour--

JW: Staples--

MG: And cornmeal.

JC: Cornmeal?

MG: Sure. Had cornbread milk.

JC: Cornbread milk? Yes ma'm.

MG: Kept my cow--kept one cow, one pig, and would start out with a hundred

dibbies--you know, to have chickens.

JC: Um-hmm. So what of stuff would you cook during the week--for the family?

What kind of foods would you all cook?

MG: Beans--pinto beans was the main food.

JW: Green beans.

MG: Green beans.

JW: In the summer, we had the okra, squash--

MG: Anything I had in the garden.

JC: What all did you have in that garden?

MG: Everything I could raise.

JW: Corn--

Mary G: Corn--Green beans.

JW: Potatoes--

MG: Potatoes--

JW: Which we put under the house for the winter.

MG: Carrots.

Mary G: Cabbage. Cabbage.

JC: Cabbage.

MG: Cabbage.

MG: Yeah.

JC: So, is it true that eventually you all did own the store?

JW: No.

JC: No, did she just work in the mill the whole time?

JW: Oh, yes.

JC: The whole time.

JW: Actually, if you knew what her salary was, it would probably amaze you that

she raised five children, and we never had any help. We were going to the store one day,

and there was a wonderful old black couple that lived up the hill from us, and--Mama

would always stop--they were older--and she'd say, "Do you need anything from the

store? We're going to the store."

JC: Um-hmm.

JW: One day the lady said yes, she did. And she said, "I don't--"--she gave Mama--I

don't know what it was, but it was something to do with, I guess, welfare. I mean, it was

not "money" money. And Mama said, "No, I'll pay for yours." She said, "I don't have

the money to pay you back." And Mama said, "That's all right. I just--I don't do

welfare.%u201D

JC: Right.

Mary G: Then they gave food stamps instead of the cards like they use now.

MG: I don't know what you're saying--

JW: I was telling about the time we went by the old black couple's to see if they

needed anything from the store, and they said yes, and they gave you a food stamp. And

you said, "No, I don't use food stamps. I'll pay for it." She just had a lot of pride--so--

MG: I raised--I had a garden--I put out fruit trees--and I picked blackberries.

JW: Yes, we did.

Mary G: Oh, yes, we did.

JC: Blackberries?

JW: Oh, yes, and made blackberry ( ) at Christmas. They are berries; they are

crust; and they are sugar and butter.

BB: On the animals--pigs--

MG: Made our own--always had one pig and one cow and a bunch of chickens.

JW: Did we eat the pig? Did we eat the pig?

MG: Eat the what?

JW: The pig.

MG: Sure, we did.

JW: That's why we had it.

BB: Was it there at the house or was it?

MG: It was our meat--

JW: No, I never remember a pig at the house where I was--in Shelby when I was

there, but I do remember the chickens, which do run around with their head cut off.

%u2018Cause Mama would use a broom to behead 'em. And the ducks--

Mary G: You know, where we lived on Dover Street--Mother owned two lots. The

house was sitting here on Dover, and Earl Street intersected. And she owned a second lot

back of that, where she had the garden and things. And there was a dirt road that went

out to the--

JW: The old Boy Scout hut--

Mary G: The old Boy Scout hut, and they might have had the pigs out down there--

JW: Could have--I was young then--

Mary G: They had lots of--

BB: Could have had the cow there--

JW: Could be--because as I recall, there was no restriction. Because we did have

dibs and ducks and--

BB: So you could have them in the city limits back then?

JW: At that time--

Mary G: She always has loved ducks. She always had some to follow you around

like a dog does.

JW: They listened to her. I mean, she would tell 'em--

Mary G: She called 'em "quack-quacks"--[laughter]%u2014don%u2019t go in the street.

BB: Tell on you, would you--

JW: Mama, you also tell 'em that we picked cotton.

MG: Sure!

JW: All of us. I remember dragging that sheet behind me and thinking this day is

never going to end. And I've still got a spoon that we found in the cotton field.

[laughter] And we walked to the fair--packed our--

MG: Walked to the fair?

JW: Um-hmm.

MG: Yes, we did. We walked everywhere.

JC: What was the fair like back then?

MG: It was good!

JC: Yeah?

MG: Yes.

JC: What kind of things did you do at the fair?

MG: We just walked around--well, we didn't have the money that some people have,

but we stayed at the fair, walked around, and seen everything.

JW: All the exhibits and the animals.

MG: And I always--we always carried our lunch. And we'd go out and sit down and

eat.

Mary G: She was a clean freak. We couldn't eat food over there 'cause it wasn't

clean. [laughter]

JW: And because the money wasn't there. But we--she generally gave us a little bit of

money. We could ride one or two rides.

Mary G: We could ride a couple of things.

JC: What kind of rides did they have?

JW: Ferris wheel--

JC: Ferris wheel--

JW: Merry-go-round--

MG: Yeah--

JW: Bumper cars.

MG: Yeah--

Mary G: Swings.

JW: Um-hmm.

BB: Purple plane, or whatever it was called. [laughter]

MG: Well, it got to where the school or the--I guess it was the county--

JW: Um-hmm--

MG: Give the children--

Mary G: The school gave us a pass one day when the fair was in.

MG: But I--I carried our supper.

JW: Um-hmm.

MG: Or dinner--whatever we's gonna be there for dinner time--I carried our food and

we'd go off and sit down and eat. It was good.

JC: I got--do you remember in the mills, the flying squadrons?

MG: Flying--?

JW: Flying squadrons?

JC: The union?

JW: Oh, the union.

JC: When the unions tried to come in. Do you remember that? What was that like

then?

MG: Well, didn't bother me one way or the other.

JC: Were you for 'em or against 'em?

MG: No, I's just--I was for 'em--

JW: You were--

Mary G: Mom was not for the union--

MG: The union--

JW: Yeah.

MG: No.

JC: You weren't for the union.

MG: No!

JW: No, you had to walk through the line, didn't you? And they threatened you.

MG: Yeah.

JC: Did they threaten you all? What did they say to you?

MG: Well, we couldn't go in to work, but I did.

JC: You did anyway?

MG: Yes, I did.

JC: Were they people from out of town that came?

Mary G: Yeah.

JC: Yeah.

MG: I wasn't scared.

JC: You weren't scared?

MG: No.

JC: Were some people scared of 'em?

MG: Huh?

JC: Were some people scared?

MG: Well, I guess they was. Everybody didn't go.

JW: That's right.

JC: Right.

MG: But I went.

JC: You needed your money, didn't you?

MG: I had to have it. [laughter]

Mary G: They threatened 'em. And during that time, they were living out in the

country. And they followed 'em home several times. It was a dangerous time--

JC: Yeah.

Mary G: For the people that crossed the lines.

MG: That was a union, wasn't it.

Mary G: Yeah.

MG: Oh. Threatened us if we went to work. If we went in, but I went ever' day.

JC: Yeah.

MG: Didn't stop. I had to have the money.

JC: You had to raise kids and support yourself.

MG: Sure!

JW: I think this is a little interesting side note--that John Bell, who is now a big

antique dealer in Asheville, started in Lawndale--

Mary G: His son Will is the antique dealer--

JW: Antique dealer--started in Lattimore. And how he got most of his antiques

initially, was that they--we would go up there, and Mama would trade him a kitchen table

or a piano for food or shoes or whatever. I know--I remember specifically the piano.

And he would give us a credit. Then we would go up there and exchange things out. And

I just think that's sort of interesting because families did that then.

JC: Yeah.

JW: It was bartering.

JC: And certain--just private business people or other people that had a little more

money would do that.

JW: Yes.

Mary G: He had a big store in Lattimore.

JW: Carried everything.

Mary G: He also had a wagon--when you were in the country, he came around in a

wagon through--when--I don't remember where we were living, but we lived in the

country somewhere near Grandpa and Grandma--and--

MG: Toward Fallston--

JW: New House--

MG: Not Fallston-

JW: New House.

MG: New House.

Mary G: Anyway, somewhere up that way. And I just remember--

MG: Rehobeth Church--

Mary G: Rehobeth Church. That truck would come by--John Bell's--you know--it

was like what you would call a delivery truck with the box on it--

JC: Panel truck.

JW: Yeah.

Mary G: Bigger than that.

JC: Okay, bigger.

Mary G: 'Cause Dad's brother-in-law was one of the drivers.

JW: So he came by bringing supplies and traded out for stuff.

Mary G: Yeah, he--they came by selling--I guess, to the farmers--a lot of supplies. I

don't remember how many groceries it was, if it was just other supplies. I just remember

that he had a truck.

JC: Were they out near Lattimore?

JW: Yes.

Mary G: John Bell's store was in Lattimore.

JC: I think I saw a picture of the truck in the Depot Restaurant. I think there's--on the

wall--the Bell truck, yeah.

Mary G: Well, that's--I can remember. I was tiny, but I remember the truck coming

by our house and Grandpa's house.

JC: Hmm.

MG: Well, what was it? Was it the union--that we wasn't supposed to go to work?

JW and Mary G: Yeah.

JW: She's never liked--

Mary G: She is very anti-union--

MG: Never missed a day but they never did bother me.

Mary G: They followed you home one time.

MG: Well, they followed me home, but they didn't bother me. [laughter]

Mary G: They didn't hurt her.

JW: They tried to scare her.

Mary G: Yeah.

BB: Did you--

MG: They didn't bother me.

BB: Did you buy your medicines at CVS or Volk Drug? [laughter]

MG: Did I what?

JW: Did you buy the medicine at CVS or at Volk Drug Company?

MG: At what company?

JW and Mary G: Volk Drug Store.

JW: There was a drug store down there at the railroad track that had a post office in

it?

MG: Well, I didn't have to have any medicine. [laughter]

JW: She's about right on that. We didn't--we never went to the doctor.

BB: Yeah.

Mary G: We got home remedies.

JW: Yeah. And they worked. They worked pretty good.

JC: What kind of home remedies? What kind of stuff would you all use?

Mary G: Let me tell you. I don't know what it was--she's told you our grandma lived

with us. And she bought a--what is it--the flat bottle of whiskey or--I don't know%u2014

alcohol.

JW: Four Roses--or something?

Mary G: No, I don't mean the brand. I guess that's a pint or a half a pint.

JC: Yeah, it's a pint.

Mary G: It's a flat--

JC: Um-hmm--flat bottle--

Mary G: Wide bottle.

JC: About like that--

Mary G: And she always had one of those, and it had--I don't know what all she put

in it--I know there was dandelion--looked like dandelion flowers.

JC: Um-hmm.

Mary G: It was herbs.

JC: Um-hmm.

Mary G: And stuff.

JW: She was part--

Mary G: And one time--

JW: Talk about home remedies--

Mary : She would take a tablespoon of sugar and then you'd get drops of that over it.

But then, she did quinine and something. One time--and she gave me that quinine, and to

this day, nobody knows if I'm sick or not, because I'm not about to tell it.

JC: Did you have malaria? A lot of times they give quinine for malaria.

Mary G: Well, she would--I don't know--

JW: I think it was for--just preventive--

JC: Preventive medicine? Something for ( )?

JW: And we always took cod liver oil.

JC: Uh-huh.

Mary G: In the wintertime we got cod liver oil and sassafras tea.

JW: Cod liver oil. And you used to dig up the roots to make sassafras tea.

MG: Sure.

JW: We drunk that. We never had--we never had soft drinks at home. And Mama

always cooked lots of vegetables. And she froze for the winter and canned. Canned--

JC: Fruits.

JW: Canned. That's right. And we--my kids couldn't believe this when I told them

the other day--we had a party line telephone.

JC: Um-hmm.

JW: First phone we ever had, six parties or something--so it used a different ring for

each party, as I recall.

Mary G: Yeah, with a number or something.

JW: And you pick it up and so--we had fun when we were young--couple of times

listening in on conversations. [laughter] Mama didn't know that. I was telling about the

party line telephone.

MG: Oh.

JC: What about plumbing? When did you get plumbing? Did you have it early on?

Electricity?

MG: Had electricity. Yes.

JC: Real early?

MG: Had plumbing.

JW: Did you have an indoor bathroom?

MG: Yeah.

JW: When you were little?

Mary G: Grandma didn't.

JW: No.

Mary G: Not when she was little, I'm sure they didn't, but when we were little, we

did. I don't ever remember when we didn't have plumbing and electric. But Grandpa and

Grandma did not. They had a--over--one of the outside buildings that had this big barrel

that caught the rain and that's how you got a shower.

JC: Yeah.

JW: Get it down so you could flap it or something?

Mary G: Yeah--I don't remember--but anyway, that's where you got a shower. But I

didn't like to go to their house because you had to go outside to the bathroom. [laughter]

JC: Yeah.

JW: We had one bathroom. Mama had five children. My grandmother lived with us

and we had aunts and uncles that were over there all the time.

JC: Because you all had the bathroom. [laughter]

JW: No, I think they just--they worked in the mill and--

JC: Uh-huh.

JW: So they stayed over there, basically, except when they slept, didn't they? And

every Sunday we made ice cream out in the back yard when it was--weather was

presentable. Our house was the meeting place.

JC: Um-hmm.

JW: So we always had to eat in shifts because we didn't have a table big enough for--

Mary G: Everybody came on Sunday for lunch--all the family.

JC: Right--

Mary G: Extended family.

JW: And one thing we knew is we could always bring anybody home that we wanted

to. Didn't have to ask, didn't have to plan--we always had plenty of food.

JC: Right. What did you all do for fun? For--

JW: What did you do for fun?

MG: Well, we got out and played hop-scotch--ball--

Mary G: Played ball--

JW: Hide 'n' seek.

MG: Yeah.

JW: I remember hiding--

Mary G: Red Rover.

JW: Send Tommy right over! And I remember hiding from Mama when we'd call us

it was time to come in to supper. We didn't have the television.

JC: Yeah.

JW: We listened to the radio a lot, and our neighbor Walt Ley and our uncle

Herbert Ellis played--

JC: Yeah.

JW: And so we'd listen to the radio. We did play hop-scotch. We'd walk to the

church park and--didn't go to the swimming pool because didn't have bathing suits and

didn't know how to swim.

Mary G: And she wouldn't let you in the water til you knew how to swim.

JW: We would sometimes--our uncle had a car, and we would ride out to the Broad

River or somewhere and play in the water. And we just played--the neighborhood kids

played--just all played together. And I guess Mama did the same thing growing up. The

neighborhood kids played together, or the family--

Mary G: And you weren't afraid then because we could go--you know--all over

Eastside and nobody had to watch--

JW: Never locked their doors.

Mary G: No.

MG: Slept out on the porch.

JW: Yes, when it got really hot. [laughter]

JC: Cooler.

MG: Didn't have a fan, much less air conditioning.

JW: No.

MG: It was really, really hot--sleep out on the porch. Wasn't scared.

JW: Huh-um.

JC: Community was good back then.

JW: Yeah, I'll point the house out to you.

JC: Okay.

JW: If--I told him I'd show him where you lived--the last house--until we moved you-

-her into a condo.

JC: Okay.

JW: In--twenty or so years ago--I don't know. The neighborhood had gotten sort of

dangerous.

MG: Dovers owned the mill. They's good to us.

Mary G: Yeah--that--the ball field right across from our house, and we played a lot.

JC: Yeah. Did you play baseball?

JW: Did you play baseball?

MG: Yes!

JC: Were you good?

MG: No! [laughter]

JC: What position did you play? Did you play a position?

MG: Well, sure.

JC: Which one?

MG: Every one they'd let me. [laughter] I wasn't good.

JC: Was it big and popular for the mills to play each other when you were young--the

teams?

MG: Yeah.

JC: What--

MG: Don't ask me if we's good, 'cause you know I thought we's good.

JC: Right.

MG: We didn't win 'em all.

JW: And our brothers always played. And we always went--

Mary G: As a matter of fact, she--her nephew played--is Harry a nephew?

JW: Um-hmm.

Mary G: --on the team in 1945 when they won the Little World Series.

JC: Okay.

BB: Who was it?

Mary G: Harry McKee.

BB: Oh, yeah.

MG: And schools--

Mary G: But we always--our brothers and--yeah, we all played ball. As long as the

Dovers had the mills, they had--

JW: Tournaments--

Mary G: Teams for each mill.

JC: Right.

JC: About how far off would you all go to play teams?

Mary G: Well, after--when Tommy was playing--for Dover--they played a lot over at

the City Park. Then we went--we out of town on some of Tommy's games. I remember

there was a team down toward Lincolnton or Denver--somewhere down in there--that

was a furniture--Howard's--

JW: Oh, yeah. Howard's Furniture over in Denver.

Mary G: I mean, we didn't go a long, long ways, but we went out of town and

followed the tournaments. 'Cause Mom always--and when my son was in high school,

she never missed--she did not ever miss a junior high or high school game, home or

away, as long as Robert played ball.

JC: Yeah.

JW: Oh, she--

JC: Sounds like she loved it.

JW: She loves sports, and she's a big--we're a big what fan, Mama? What school do

we pull for?

MG: What?

JW: What school do we pull for? [laughter] Tell 'em.

MG: Carolina! [big laughter]

JC: I go to Carolina.

MG: Oh--

JW: You're one of the good guys.

JC: Well--

[confusing noise--everyone talking at once]

JC: I'm kind of a State fan, but I go to Carolina. [laughter and noise]

JW: Don't say that! Want me to spank him?

MG: Hard! [laughter]

JW: Tell him who sent you a birthday card the other day--I mean, of the many you

got. One from George Bush and a couple of others, but the most important one was

what?

MG: Dean--Smith.

JC: Dean Smith sent you a card?

JW: She put her finger in Dean Smith's face one time and told him he ought to make

Eric Montross be a better ball player. [laughter]

Mary G: We told him. We were down at Carolina Inn. Our niece was getting

married, and one of my brothers said, "Mary, where's Mom?" because she'd come with

me, you know. And I said she was right over there a few minutes ago. We started

looking for her, and I got out in the hall and she was standing there with her hand in

Montross's belt buckle, and she had him like this, and Jane was over here, and she said,

"You're a ball player. You're just lazy." [laughter] Now, Dean--if he plays tonight like

he did last night, we've won the ( ).

JC: Did she?

JW: And she doesn't miss a game, and she knows the players.

JC: Wow.

JW: She loves the Braves--she likes all sports, but she loves the Braves, too.

Mary G: And I'll tell you what she said when you said you were really a State fan%u2014

my brother--

JC: I grew up a State fan, yeah--

Mary G: --went to--

JC: You can't help how you grow up--

Mary G: You can't pick your family, but you can your friends--

JC: That's right.

Mary G: Our brother, when he--first time he retired, he said he was going to

school and study some things he couldn't study when he was in school, you know,

because he was looking, studying for a job. So he came home, and he said, "Mom, I have

applied to Duke." She said, "I would like for you to tell me what you can't--anything you

can learn that you don't need to know, that you can't learn at Carolina." [laughter] And

he--

JW: He taught at Duke, too, for a while--

JC: Did he--

JW: Johnny--we don't claim that. Johnny--he taught at Chapel Hill--he taught at

Duke. We just all--except for my husband's dad who went to Duke--we're big Carolina

fans.

JC: Big Carolina fans?

JW: Yes.

JC: Yeah--I don't care for Duke. At this point, I don't like Duke more than I don't like

Carolina. [laughter] But I went to Carolina. I enjoyed it--I liked the university.

Mary G: She got a card from Dean, and she got a letter from Roy, and a signed

picture from all the ball players.

JC: Wow.

Mary G: --her happy.

MG: I like all of 'em.

JC: Right.

MG: But Carolina's Number One. [laughter] Number one with me.

JC: When did you start loving Carolina?

MG: All the time.

JC: When you were young?

MG: Well, sure.

JC: Were they good back then?

MG: Yes, they've always been.

JC: You remember Charlie Choo-Choo Justice?

MG: Who?

JW: Charlie Choo-Choo Justice?

Mary G: That's football.

JW: She didn't watch football.

JC: You didn't like football?

Mary G: She's more into basketball.

JC: Basketball, baseball--yeah.

Mary G: One time I called her to check on her, and she said, "Mary, something's

wrong." And I said, "What's wrong?" She said, "The ball game's on and Dean Smith's

not there." I said, "Mother, it's a football game." [laughter]

JC: Oh, man.

BB: Something was mentioned about the park%u2014the city park? What kind of a fix did

the city park have on the, let's say, the villages and different sections, as far as what

activities each person could do?

JW: I don't remember being active at the City Park at all except for the ball games.

Mary G: Yeah, well--but then, a lot of the--like Jack--used the golf course. I would

say--I would say the swimming pool got the least use, as far as our neighborhood

was concerned. The mill villages, I would think--that the ball fields and the golf course

was the most popular thing.

JC: Right.

Mary G: And then, when they put the train and the merry-go-round, you know, and

those things, and course, you know, they enjoyed those. But as far as the mill villages--I

never knew anybody that really went to the park for swimming.

JW: No, I didn't either, 'cause--and I just assumed that most of them were like us%u2014

they didn't swim.

MG: What?

JW: I said we never went to the swimming pool. I assume that most of them were

like us--they didn't swim, and when we went to water, we went down to the river and

played--or the creek--

MG: They worked--

JC: They worked?

Mary G: Oh, yes.

MG: They didn't have time to stay at the fairground. [mild laughter] They had work

to do.

JC: You put them to work early, didn't you?

JW: You got that right. We all had to--

Mary G: She worked six days a week. She does not work on Sunday, and we'd thank

God she didn't.

JW: And no cards in the house--

JC: No cards in the house? No dancing?

JW: No cards in the house. Oh--we danced. We didn't abide by that Baptist rule of

no dancing, did we, Mama? She used to come to our house and we'd roll the rugs back,

and Henry and I would dance.

JC: Did you dance?

MG: Huh?

JC: Dance?

MG: Dance?

JW: You dance?

MG: Me? No, I can't dance. [laughter]

JW: You can do anything you want. Can't never could. You can do anything you

want to if you want to bad enough.

MG: Well, if you wanted to.

Mary G: But she loved music.

JC: Yeah.

JW: Yeah.

Mary G: But, she used to desire books--you could--

JW: Oh, yeah.

Mary G: Read all the time.

JC: All the time.

JW: Absolutely. Read to us.

JC: She instilled in you all education, then.

JW: Yes. Oh, yeah. She said, "I love all five of you, and you will graduate from high

school--that is not an option."

JC: Um-hmm.

JW: "And you better do well. I hope all of you go to college, and good luck because

that is all I can give you."

JC: Yeah.

JW: And--but the Dovers did--when I went to college--they would pay tuition if you

worked in the mill in the summer or something like that--I can't remember exactly--or

they would pay part of your tuition.

JC: Right.

JW: So they did make an effort like that to help.

JC: And what schools? Any school, or--?

JW: Any state supported school, as I recall. I'm sure they weren't going to

send somebody to Wake Forest, even though then it was very--when I went to

Greensboro, the reason I went to Greensboro was because it was the only place I could

afford. I couldn't stay at home and to Boiling Springs . I paid $898 a semester, and that

was food, room, board--everything except my clothes and my books.

JC: Um-hmm. Do you think it was common that kids that grew on or near or working

in the mill went to college--or was that uncommon?

MG: What?

JW: Mama, do you think it was common that a lot of the kids that grew up around the

mills--parents worked in the mills--went to college? Or you think it was more

uncommon? My thinking is probably uncommon--that not many kids--

MG: Well, if they wanted to, they could go to college--with work and go--they'd let

'em work, you know--give 'em the hours that they could work--or their parents was

working there. They could go to college if they wanted to.

JC: Yeah.

JW: They'd help 'em some.

MG: I had five. They went to college and worked, too.

JW: But I know a lot of kids whose parents were in the mill--that they went to the

mill.

JC: Right--uh-huh.

JW: You, know, which is a natural following.

JC: Yeah. Did--

MG: And the Dovers really helped--

JC: With the college?

MG: Yes. With the children.

JW: Well, I think mostly they helped in letting us work to make money to go.

JC: Right.

JW: And then, as I said, for a while--I don't know about the tuition--how long that

was, or if it was tied into your working in the summer. I've forgotten.

MG: The what?

JW: I was telling about when the Dovers, at one point, helped with tuition or a certain

amount of it. They didn't pay the whole thing because I know I had two jobs in school

and two scholarships, and I still owed money when I graduated.

MG: They paid so much or brought 'em in or something--I don't remember.

JW: But they did encourage--

Mary G: It was like now--no it isn't, because kids now grow up, thinking they deserve

it.

JC: Not me. [laughter] But, hey, I am thirty-five, so I guess I'm not really now a kid.

JW: I've got a book that you might enjoy looking through--I don't know--or you

might have been familiar with it--probably has some sections on the mills--villages, and

it's The Living History of Cleveland County. Henry's grandfather wrote it.

JC: I haven't seen that one.

JW: Okay.

JC: Yeah, I plan on going to the library some and just pulling up some of the--

JW: Yeah.

BB: Where could we get a map that may show all of the plants in the county?

JC: Have you ever seen anything like that?

JW: I don't know that I have.

JC: Yeah. That's one of the things I'm trying to do is to map out where all the mills

were and kind of how all the villages were around--

JW: I bet you we can do that with that book--because--

JC: Does he go through all the mills and everything?

JW: I'm pretty sure so. If I had my phone, I'd call Henry and tell him to--

JC: Henry who now?

JW: My husband.

JC: Okay.

Mary G: Mine's in the car if you want it.

JW: That's all right. I'll check with him later and get you the book. You are going to

be here when?

JC: I'll be here until Tuesday, and then I'll be coming back at the end of August.

JW: And when are you going to the library?

JC: This weekend sometime. I think it's open Saturday, right?

JW: I have no idea.

JC: Yeah. I'm going to check.

JW: I don't go like I used to.

JC: Yeah.

Mary G: The Dovers had Dover Mill and Ora Mill--

JW: Over on that side of town--west--

Mary G: Like off 226.

BB: Right.

JC: Um-hmm.

Mary G: And then, years later, they built J and C Dyeing. It was over there. Then

they had the Esther Mill. Then they had--

JW: The one in Cherryville---

Mary G: --the one in Buffalo%u2014on 150--

JW: What's the name of that?

Mary G: Buffalo.

JW: Oh, was it? Okay.

Mary G: And that 's going down 150 towards Cherryville, and then they had--the mill

in Cherryville--what was the name? What was the name of the mill the Dovers had over

at Cherryville?

JW: You'd think you'd never forget that.

MG: Cherryville? They've still got it, hadn't they?

JW: I think it's closed.

MG: Oh. What was it?

Mary G: But the--

BB: You talking about the Dora Mill?

JW: Dora--Dora.

Mary G: That was it, right? Dora.

JW: There was a Dora. Was it Dora over in Cherryville, Mama?

MG: Dora--

JW: Was that the one in Cherryville?

MG: That don't sound right. Dora--

JW: I was thinking Dora might have been the one down at the Buffalo%u2014at bottom of

the hill--

MG: Buffalo--

JW: Was Buffalo--

JC: How long did you work in the mills?

Mary G: Fifty-two years.

MG: Whatever's the east side--one was Buffalo and one in Cherryville--

JW: He said, how long did you work in the mill? Fifty-two years?

MG: Went in when I was fourteen--

JW: And left in 1977--it was the year Annie was born.

MG: Worked all my life.

Mary G: And thinks she had the best life in the world. Has she got a copy of that

article that's in the paper?

JC: She loves it--

Mary G:--about Elmer Roon?

JW: I don't know--I'm going to go look and see--

Mary G: Because they've written her up in the paper several times.

JC: Have they? What kind of pranks or joking did you all do in the mills?--on each

other--

MG: What kind of what?

Mary G: Did--

MG: Oh--we worked. [laughter]

JC: You didn't prank at all? You didn't joke?

MG: We stopped to eat lunch.

JC: You didn't prank nobody?

Mary G: She might didn't understand--

MG: Didn't what?

Mary G: Did you all play tricks on each other in the mill?

MG: No. We worked. [laughter]

Mary G: I don't believe she would admit it if she had.

MG: They was good to us. They give us--

Mary G: She gets real upset when she hears people talk about the mill people, you

know--the owners not being--you know, not being good for the people.

JC: Right.

Mary G: Because she thinks they were.

JC: Yeah.

BB: Was a lunch pretty common, or did they have a cafe, a meal cafeteria?

Mary G: No. They called it a dope-wagon, I think. Let me see. Mom, didn't they

call--when you bought something in the mill--didn't you all call that a dope-wagon?

MG: Yeah.

Mary G: 'Cause they called cokes and things dope.

JC: Um-hmm. 'Cause they had to depend on them. They could depend on them.

Mary G: But she--they carried--like, she would carry a sandwich--or, you know,

whatever she had. But you could go to--and I don't know what it was like--but they

always--I just remember they always--Mom always said "the dope-wagon."

BB: Um-hmm.

JC: So she was tight with money--she wouldn't spend it on that at all?

Mary G: It wasn't that she was tight. It was that she had five kids to feed--

JC: Right.

Mary G: My dad was gone by then.

JC: She was tight because she had to.

Mary G: She was supporting five children, herself, and her mom.

JC: Wow. So he passed fairly young?

Mary G: He passed to better pastures, let's say.

JC: Yeah%u2014oh--okay. I got it.

Mary G: And she was left with all of us. So it wasn't that she was tight; it wasn't by

choice.

JC: Right, right.

Mary G: But then, she probably wouldn't have--she wouldn't have been over

indulgent of herself. She wasn't ever that kind of a person. As a matter fact, she is one of

the--the only person I know, until she came here, that lived on social security and could

save money. And she owned her own home, and she didn't owe anybody anything. And

she saved money on social security.

JC: Yeah.

Mary G: Coming up in the Depression, I guess you lived differently than when you're

coming up in very prosperous years.

JC: Coming up, not having a whole lot, changes how you think about a lot of things.

BB: How many boys and how many girls?

Mary G: She had three daughters and two sons. One of my brothers, Tom Greene,

worked in the textile industry for years, and he did%u2014he started out with the Dovers. And

he worked--he's color blind--and he was afraid he would lose his job if they found out

he was color blind. So he brought yarn home with him and he could--he learned--we

would tell him the colors and he felt of them until he could feel any yarn they used in the

plant and tell you the color of it. Nobody ever knew he was color blind.

BB: Is that right?

JC: Wow.

Mary G: And he worked--as a matter of fact, right now he has an exhibit over at

Cleveland Tech of photographs.

MG: Mary, didn't the Dovers pay the tuition for school, college?

Mary G: They helped. They didn't pay it, but they did help.

MG: I thought--

Mary G: But he's since gotten into a lot of different interests, and one of his interests

is photography. And he's--they have his pictures--some of his pictures displayed over at

Cleveland Tech in the gallery. He's showing the month of August.

MG: Huh?

Mary G: And other brother went into--he graduated in journalism, and he works in

t.v. all of his life.

MG: Jackie, I was thinking--

Mary G: Jackie and Marty were teachers--

MG: Huh?

Mary G: I'm sorry--

MG: I was thinking that Dovers paid--

Mary G: They helped some--I don't know how--Mama, I don't know about that.

JW: Have to call the library about that. What is the phone number--I've forgotten--I

used to know%u2014to see if they are open tomorrow. Henry said he couldn't find that book.

He thinks we loaned it to someone.

MG: Jackie, did Dovers pay your tuition in college?

JW: There was some kind of deal, Mama, where they paid some tuition, or it was

related to my working there--something like that. They would give you a certain amount.

They didn't pay the whole thing.

MG: I was thinking they did.

JW: I don't think so.

[pause%u2014apparently looking at article]

JC: Says she'd be working part time?

JW: She worked full time always.

JC: It said she would be working with them again part time.

JW: Oh--

JC: Or spare time--

JW: That's that plaque when you left the mill. Maybe they called and she went back

in to fill in some.

Mary G: She didn't very long because--

JW: No.

Mary G: She told them one time that she was retired and she was staying retired.

JW: And our daughter was born that year, and she spent a lot of time with her.

Mary G: Showing him that--you and Jack--that was her brother.

JW: Look in here and see if there is anything about the mills that might interest you.

[pause] Yeah--"Strikes in the Textile Industry." "I wasn't going to strike--I had to work."

"Working in the mill, we got paid three dollars a week."

MG: I can%u2019t see.

JW: I think you might find this interesting. Let's turn--starting about where she had

to drop out of school, and you can%u2014have to have this back, but, I mean, if you want to

take it and--

JC: Can I take it and copy it? Okay, I'll bring it back to you.

Mary G: Our brother did that from one of his classes at Duke.

JW: Yeah, he did.

JC: Wow. This is great.

JW: And that will give you a little background. My father brought her home to have

me, when they were in Baltimore, and he didn't come back at all after that, did he?

Mary G: ( ) She'd slap me if she could hear.

JW: We aren't allowed to say anything negative about him.

Mary G: No, we aren't--I used to say to everybody, we were too poor to have a

father. [laughter]

BB: You had a good one, didn't you.

Mary G: A mother.

JW: Got that right!

JC: I'd love--Yeah, I will definitely check those out. Thank you.

JW: Okay--yeah. Stick it back in here. Then, if I can come across--I know we've got

an old copy that got wet--of the history book--that I can get to you. Henry said some

pages are stuck together and all, but anyway, I do want you to look at that because I think

that's got all the mills. I know it's got the Schenck family and the Dovers and the--

Dover Mills were named after, basically, the girls in the family.

Mary G: The Dovers' sisters, I believe, who it is. Charles and John--

JW: Charles, Ian, and Jack Dover--

Mary G: Okay. I think that the girls--their sisters' names, maybe--or maybe a mother

or something--

JC: Hmm. You all mentioned that you have family that played music--

JW: Um-hmm.

JC: And you mentioned that you all listened to radio and stuff. What did you all

listen to?

JW: Bluegrass--

Mary G: On Saturday night she let us listen to the Grand Ole Opry. [laughter] That

was great.

JW: Our uncle played banjo.

Mary G: Banjo.

JW: By ear. Never had any--

Mary G: Very, very good. As a matter of fact, he played with Earl Scruggs until Earl

Scruggs left, you know--went to--I guess, to Nashville, or wherever he left to. But any%u2014

Don Gibson had a radio show in Shelby, and--but Herbert was so good, he played with%u2014

you know, he would play for a lot of these musicians--

JC: Is he passed?

JW and Mary G: Yes.

JC: What was his full name?

JW: Herbert--H.--Mama, what was Herbert's middle name?

JC: Ellis.

Mary G: Hubert-

JW: Herbert Hubert Ellis.

JC: Okay.

Mary G: His mother loved him--she just wasn't real good on names.

BB: Herbert Hubert.

JC: Yeah, we had a Herbert in my family. We called him Hubbert.

JW: Hubbert. Have you seen Don Gibson's burial plot?

JC: No, I haven't.

BB: It's unreal, isn't it?

JW: It is unreal. It's worth seeing. And I mean, I just really--I just admired him. I

loved his singing. And he went through some tough times. But his first--or one of his

wives--was--moved in our neighborhood--David Champion's sister? You remember the

pretty, tall girl?

Mary G: Was she the one that was the nurse?

JW: I don't remember.

Mary G: His first wife was a nurse.

JW: But his--Bobbie--his present wife--is helping with the Cleveland County--the

Destination Cleveland County--and--

Mary G: That monument, she saw at some cemetery in Nashville and had it

duplicated.

JW: Oh, did she?

Mary G: And they were pouring the concrete when Robert was buried, you know%u2014

there. And the guy from ( ) , and I can't remember how many feet the concrete

goes down in the ground to support the monument.

BB: We need to get that. We can get it from Ron Ledbetter. He's the one that has

Reel to Reel. He's the one that did the whole thing and had the granite shipped in from

France or Italy or somewhere--

JW: Italy or somewhere special.

JC: So, did you all like growing up--right there at the village?

JW: Oh, Lord, we loved it.

JC: Did you like how you grew up?

JW: Yeah.

Mary G: We didn't even know that--I tell people that I did not know that we were

poor until--

JW: Adulthood.

Mary G: Yeah, I thought everybody lived like we did.

JW: We had everything we needed. We had a mother that was stern discipline, and I

tell her now that if she were parenting, she'd get picked up by social services--believed in

the switch! I said, we got many switches, didn't we? But we were happy--always had

family around--

JC: They got it when they needed it?

MG: I said, they didn't get 'em unless they needed it.

Mary G: And that was not up for discussion. [laughter]

MG: They were good children. I could trust 'em. I didn't have to stay and watch right

over 'em. I had to work, and they was at home, growing up, but they was working.

JC: Yeah.

MG: They had work to do and they did it, and they did a good job.

JW: I'll tell you something that is interesting. The neighbohood kids and I played

together all the time. There were about seven of us. We played all day long. We

decided that we were going to steal a watermelon. We were going to take--we didn't

consider it stealing--we were going to take a watermelon from Mr. Callahan's store,

which was out down on Lineberger Street. So we go down and we get this watermelon.

Now, we're not smart enough to do it when's it's too dark to be seen. And so Mama sees

us coming back with the watermelon. She's at the mill. So she comes in, and she said,

"Jackie, where'd you get that watermelon?" Is that what you said? We were little.

JW: And I said, "We got it at the store." She said, "Well, how'd you pay for it?" And

I said, "Well, we didn't." She said, "You go pick up that watermelon rind and come

here." So we get the watermelon rind, and we take it back to the store, and I have to go

in and tell him what we've done. Now I'm the only kid that's doing this--the others are

long gone. [laughter] So I never thought I'd borrow anything else after that.

MG: See the store. See, right here where the mill was--here's where I's at.

JC: Uh-huh.

MG: See the store. Right here%u2019s the mill. Store's across the street.

JW: And your house is over here.

JC: Your house is over here?

JW: Yeah.

JC: Okay.

JW: So I walked from the store by the mill to the house.

MG: I was caught up and was getting ready to go home, waiting on the ten o'clock,

or whatever--it wasn't ten--

JW: No.

MG: Was getting off early, and I seen 'em, and Jackie was in the bunch. I stood right

there and watched 'em.

BB: You didn't have to get anybody to confess, did you? [laughter]

JW: Nope.

JC: You knew what the deal was.

JW: Oh, me.

MG: Who was--you and who?

JW: Oh--David--oh, no--it was a bunch of us--me and David ad Keith and Philip--

MG: I know they went back--

JW: Oh, I don't remember anybody but me going back--

MG: You went back--

JW: I went back.

MG: She went back. I don't know where the rest of 'em went.

Mary G: Their mothers didn't see them.

JC: Some people that we talk to, talk about Tony's Ice Cream coming around.

JW: Oh, yeah.

Mary G: ( ) and they had a place in South Shelby.

JC: Did they come around to the villages, though--to--

Mary G: Dizzy's--yeah.

JW: We always had ice cream trucks. Even a couple of years ago, I said, "Henry, I

hear an ice cream truck."

JC: Yeah.

JW: But they used to be really common.

JC: Yeah. Did they come around--a lot of people said that they took bowls out to 'em,

and they filled the bowls up with ice cream.

Mary G: We had--we made ice cream--

JC: You all made it? Yeah.

Mary G: On Sundays.

JC: Y'all didn't buy none from when they came around--

JW: It wasn't a big deal to us--

Mary G: And then, our uncle had the car. He would take us down to Tony's once in a

while.

JW: Dizzy's--or Tony's.

Mary G: Yeah.

JC: But y'all didn't have a car, so y'all got around everywhere by walking. Yeah. My

mama didn't have a car growing up, either, so--

Mary G: As a matter of fact, after she retired, she got out every morning before the

sun came and walked anywhere from four to twelve miles.

JW: Yes.

Mary G: --before she started her day's work.

JW: She lived on Dover Street. You know where that is, and you know where%u2014

there's a housing development in the ball field now. But right there at Esther Mill--she

walked from there to my uncle's house, which is right down here about--

Mary G: Ten blocks--

JW: Yeah.( ) his house and come back home. She would come to my house in

the morning. I'd get up, and she'd come walking in, and she'd say, "It's seven-thirty. You

don't have your beds made--clothes aren't hanging out--" I'd say, "Mama, go away and

leave me alone. I'm inside drinking coffee." And then, when our son was two years old,

I called her and said, "Mama, what's you doing?" She said, "I'm planting the garden--I'm

plowing the garden." I said, "Well, I'll come over and help you." So I get Tripp. We go

and get in the car, and I get over there, and she's got the plow around her neck, and she's

plowing the garden. I said--she's done about four rows--I said, "Mama, you take care of

Tripp and I'll do some plowing." I could hardly get through one row, and the next

morning I woke up and I said to Henry, "I'm afraid I'm going to die and afraid I'm not."

[laughter] Every bone in my body ached.

BB: You were used to it.

JW: Yeah.

JC: Tough.

JW: Always worked.

JC: Tough--yeah.

Mary G: When she moved in the condos, finally--we kept thinking the neighborhood

was getting worse and worse. And we said, "Mom, you got to get out." "I've lived here

before they did." Finally, I had got Sarah Strain looking for a house so--where she could

walk to everything, still. And she wouldn't. I finally said, "Leave her alone. She'll do it

herself." And she called me one day, and she said, "I found me a condo." I said, "Good.

Let me know the address." And--she just proceeded and bought that thing and moved

over-- So one day Jackie, she called me--she said, "You been to Mother's this morning?"

'cause I was living in town then, and I said, "No--what?" She said, "Go over there." I

said, "What's going on?" "Just go." So--but before, when you go in, she was saying they

got the grass cut once a week, and she would say, "They don't half cut this grass. They

don't ever rake. This place is so dirty. I'm not used to living in dirt." [laughter] So, I pull

up, and there she's got the lawn mowers. I got out and said, "Mother, what are you

doing?"--'cause I had said to her, "Mother, people want to come over here to visit you and

you complaining about the yard." I said, "Stop fussing about it or do something about it."

And she had that lawn mower, just a-going. I said, "What are you doing?" She said,

"Something about it." [laughter]

JW: She was the maintenance person.

Mary G: She was the outside maintenance for the condos.

JC: How old was she?

JW: About ninety--

Mary G: She did it until she--2004.

JW: I was telling him about--Mary's telling him about you being the maintenance

person at the condo. And we gave her, for her some birthday, her ninety-something

birthday--no problem--

Mary G: You're okay.

[(brief interruption]

JW: So we give Mama a lawnmower with an electric start. She calls Sears and says,

"Come pick this up--I don't want it." They said, "Mrs. Greene, what do you want?" She

said, "I want one of those that blows--you know--I don't want this thing." So we took it

back, and she would rake and blow the leaves in the morning. Afternoon, she's back out

there again, and one of the neighbors said, "Mrs. Greene, do you have to catch every leaf

as it comes down?" [laughter]

Mary G: She would knock on the doors--knock on the door and say, "Your porch is

filthy. Clean it up."

JW: But, truly, we didn't have grass at our first house.

JC: People would sweep the yards--yeah.

Mary G: I can't remember how many leaf blowers she went through.

JW: Yeah.

JC: Just blowing leaves.

JW: Mama, you think of anything else about the mill you want to tell him?

MG: No.

JW: Okay.

MG: It was good. You had to work.

JW: Life's good. Life's always been good for her.

JC: Yeah--it sounds like--

JW: I had a friend that said, "She's making--she's forcing herself to be happy, she%u2019s

making herself be happy." I said, "She's not forcing herself. She is happy." And that's

what we're all supposed to do--is be happy.

JC: Um-hmm.

JW: And she's always said, "I've had the greatest life of anybody at all."

JC: Yeah--

JW: So--

JC: I like that.

JW: That's a good philosophy.

MG: I've always believed if I pay you to work, I want you to work. I don't want to

pay to play. I'm paying you to work and I expect you to work. So they were paying me

eight hours--or twelve, or whatever--and I give it to 'em.

JC: Yeah.

Mary G: And tell him what you had this morning, the first one you've had in a

hundred years%u2014[laughter]

MG: What?

Mary G: Tell him what you had this morning, the first one you've had in one hundred

years.

JW: One hundred years and one day. Tell 'em! They won't appreciate it--they're

men. Mary took her and--tell 'em what you had.

MG: What did I have?

JW: I started to say, " a face lift"--no--a facial. [laughter] And my son came in from

L.A. My daughter and son couldn't be here on her birthday, so they were here last week,

and he was sitting on Mama's bed. And he said, "Mom, has Grandma had botox?"

[laughter] I said, "No, she's just happy and it's showing."

JC: So, did it feel good? Did it feel good?

MG: I feel good. I feel good now.

Mary G: He said, did your facial feel good?

JC: Did the facial feel good? [laughter]

Mary G: ( )I wouldn't answer this. Somebody gave me some money and said,

"Get your mother something she doesn't have, 'cause I know she doesn't need anything

and she'll say she doesn't want anything." And I said, "Well, I'll have to think of

something." And I thought, I thought, what can you do? What had she--you can't buy

her anything, 'cause she has everything.

JC: Yeah.

JW: Doesn't need anything.

Mary G: Doesn't need anything. So I kept thinking, and I thought, she hasn't ever had

a facial. I hope I don't have to live to be a hundred to get one. [laughter]

BB: A hundred years and one day--

JW: Yep.

MG: I tell 'em I've got more than they have.

JW: She used to say--I'd say, "Mama, what do you want for Christmas?" She'd say,

"You can come over to this house and take something out. So everybody asks me what

she needs, and I say, "Nothing but chocolate and snuff." Her drawers are full of

chocolate and snuff.

JC: Still has to have that snuff?

JW: Oh, yes.

Mary G: The aides say she's up half the night, eating candy.

JW: And watching sports.

JC: I used to live with my great aunt, who was in her--she was like ninety-one, when

I was in college. And my other great aunt lived across town, and she was like eighty-

nine. And she'd call one night about ten o'clock at night. My aunt was getting ready to

go to bed, and the other aunt was over here, and she goes, "Alice, tell that boy to get that

can of snuff and bring it over here, 'cause I've got to have--I got to have some snuff

before I go to bed." [laughter] And my Aunt Alice sent a whole can. She's like, "I know

how Fodie is--she's gonna want a lot." [laughter]

JW: What kind did she smoke?

JC: She had Peach and she also did Railroad Mills some. So--

JW: Mama's a Tuberose woman--

JC: Tuberose?

JW: --all the way.

JC: Now one of my other aunts, Rosie--she was a Tuberose woman.

JW: Mama went to the hospital when she had her--when was the first time she was in

the hospital?--when they jump-started her heart? No, she wasn't a patient then.

MG: She didn't have to stay.

JW: Anyway, she was in the hospital, and she said, "Jackie, can I have my snuff in

here?" And I said, "Sure." So Doug Boyette came in, and I said, "Doug, Mama's had

snuff, and I told her she could use it." He said, "Mrs. Greene, at your age you can use

anything you want to." She said, "Why'd you have to tell on me." I said, "'Cause the

doctor needs to know everything." [laughter]

Mary G: Well, one time, Robert, my son, lived at North Myrtle, and every time he

was coming, or I would come home, there's a store down there--a general store, R. W.

Wood's, that has--it's just an old kind of drop-'em-down store, I guess--and it had all kind

of snuff. So Robert would go--he never realized that she's get two ( ) only, and he

would buy whole bunches--a big, brown paper bag full of snuff. So I was coming in one

weekend, and I told him, so he said--he went by R. W.'s and he came and gave me--"You

take this to Grandma." And I got up here, and I said, "Mama, Robert, Jr., sent you a

present." She said, "I hadn't been dipping for six months, and nobody didn't even know

it. Just give it here." [laughter] I think that was after you told somebody she dipped.

JW: She said, "You shouldn't tell the doctor that." Sure, you should.

BB: I wanted to ask this question. On the whole, did she make, like blackberry wine

for upset stomachs and stuff?

JW: No.

Mary G: No. There was no alcohol in our house unless it was rubbing.

JW: Except for Mamaw--she did send somebody to buy--

Mary G: Yeah.

JW: Four Roses or something--

Mary G: I don't know--that little thing, but I don't know if Mama even knew that was

alcohol 'cause we--you know, there wasn't any drinking. We didn't know anything about

drinking, growing up. But now, my grandfather did make blackberry wine, but you had to

be real, real special to him to get it. [laughter]

JW: Was that Grandpa Greene?

Mary G: Yeah, and he gave me a lot. I was probably--I don't know how old I was--I

already had children, and I went up there one time with my aunt, and he gave me a bottle

of it, and it was terrible--I wasn't disappointed I hadn't had any all these years.

JW: We just--the home remedies, too, were probably a lot of things that, I mean, that

people do now, and some, I think, they are going back to. I'm trying to think exactly

what. We had a lot of toothaches--

Mary G: Used a lot of camphor.

JW: Yeah, and peroxide.

BB: Did she ever do onions for congestion?

Mary G: Yeah--they made a poultice--

JW: Poultices. And her--she had a terrible time with her hands, and the doctors--we

took her to doctors and doctors. And they thought it had to do with the yarn she was

using in the mill. She said, "I don't have a choice. I can't quit working." So we would

peel a potato and scrape it down every night, and pack it on her hands and wrap her hands

in--

Mary G: You did that, too, when you got up. When we kids got a scratch or

something, you know. And she scraped Irish potato and put it on you--made a poultice, it

was supposed to draw the--

BB: Was that an early form of carpal tunnel of was it in--was it in her wrist or?

JW and Mary G: No--the skin.

BB: Okay--the skin itself.

JW: And you get a bite, and chew of the snuff or cigarette--

JC: Yeah, and it draws the poison out and makes it stop swelling.

BB: Okay.

JC: What about calamus root? You ever had a root for the stomach? Tasted real bad

and you boil that up and make a tea out of it?

JW: No, I just remember the sassafras--

JC: Sassafras--

Mary G: Yeah. You got in the--it was in the spring or the fall--spring and the fall, I

guess. You got sassafras and castor oil, 'cause--had to get your system clean.

JW: Castor oil all the time. And what was it we used to do to make our teeth strong,

and then they found out that it colors your teeth. What was that? Mama, what did we

used to take for--supposed to make your teeth strong, and then they found out it

discolored 'em?

MG: Ah--

JW: 'Cause we didn't go to the dentist. If we got a toothache, we would take a--an

aspirin and put it on the tooth that hurt--

BB: Was it soda?

JW: We did a lot of baking soda and hot water gargling--or salt and hot water

gargling for sore throat.

BB: Okay.

JW: Just trying to think of all the home remedies.

Mary G: And we never had--I don't remember any of us ever having the earache.

Now my kids never had an earache.

JC: Wow.

Mary G: And their kids, Michael and Maggie--

JW: Have them all the time.

Mary G: Had 'em first couple years of their life, their ears--they had infect--whatever

was wrong with the ears--earache--

JW: Well, I had--

Mary G: But there was an old wives' tale that if you blew smoke in the ears, that they

would--you know--the ear would quit hurting. So I guess then everybody smoked around

the house. [laughter] I used to tell Mary I'm going to get everybody who smokes to come

to your house and set your babies right in the middle of that.

BB: One thing on the grandmother staying with Mrs. Greene, how long up into your

lives did she have that help?

JW: My grandmother died when Tripp was a baby--Tripp was like three. When did

Mamaw die? Let's see--Tripp was born in seventy. He was a baby, wasn't he?

MG: I think he was.

JW: So, I'd say seventy-five--three to seventy-five? And Mama was--

JC: She was pretty well up in age, then.

JW: Yes, and Mama retired in seventy-seven.

Mary G: She didn't live as long as Mama has. She was up in her eighties.

JW: Yes.

BB: Well, I was just--

JC: It's still a long time for that generation.

BB: Yeah--I was just--

JC: Still a long time for that generation.

Mary G: I've told her, in her case, only the good die young.

BB: Most of the plants here in town started working like six o'clock in the morning.

JW: Right.

BB: So she had to get up early.

JW: Right--

Mary G: And when we were young, she worked--

JC: She worked third.

BB: --all the time.

Mary G: Third shift so she could be--

BB: Yeah--okay--

Mary G.: She would be sleeping while we were in school.

JW: And also, that was a time when, as I recall, most of the families in our neck of

the woods had extended families around.

Mary G: Yeah.

JW: Now, my aunt and uncle always came to our house from work--

JC: Yeah--

Mary G: Plus, for a long, long time they lived across the street.

JW: And, I mean, we always had family in there, and it was--I think about that a lot

because I think about this facility. It used to be that when a person got old and needed

care, it was the family that did it.

BB: That's right.

JW: It wasn't a lot of options unless you had a lot of money.

JC: Um-hmm.

Mary G: They had a county home. I--out there where Cleveland Tech is now.

JW: Yes, they did. Have you ever--do you remember that? Long porch across the

front, and when you go in, the first thing you smell is bananas and snuff. And the big

rockers sat out there. We used to go out all the time. I had forgotten about that.

JC: It's every--that's every house--you know, bananas and snuff--that's right. Did

everybody eat bananas in the morning and did snuff--yeah--

BB: They had--they helped earn their keep by working in the gardens that they had

over there. I remember they had gardens.

Mary G: But the people that went in the county home were destitute--

JC: Yeah--they had no money--

JW: People that didn't have a family to take care of 'em--

JC: Or family, or the family couldn't afford to do it or--

Mary G: Yeah, and it was a lot of--

JW: I'd forgotten about going to the county home until they said that. We used to go

over there all the time and visit. You remember?

Mary G: Like people--

MG: Used to go the county home--

Mary G: --who had dementia.

JC: Um-hmm.

JW: Yeah.

BB: Right.

Mary G: But that's what I told Mom when we went to the Cleveland Tech. She said,

" I hadn't ever been here." I said, "You've been here a lot of times. It was the county

home back then.

JW: Times have changed.

JC: So when did--how long did she keep reading until? Like, a lot--

JW: Until she came here.

JC: Til she came here.

JW: And--it was a combination, I think, of things, you know.

JC: Um-hmm.

JW: And just--she's still got good eyes--saw a spider on the floor the other day I

couldn't even see. But she just--we were saying that you used to never be without a book.

You don't read as much now as you used to.

MG: My eyes--

Mary G: She has a lot of problems with allergies--it affects her eyes.

MG: Used to read all the time.

JW: They dry out and everything.

JC: What did she like to read?

JW: Anything!

JC: Anything?

JW: Mama, what was your favorite thing to read on? Biographies?

MG: I read everything.

JW: Everything. Christian books--

JC: Yeah--

JW: She read a poem to us every year at Christmas--"Willy and Andy's Prayer"--that

I've got that book.

Mary G: America%u2019s Best-Loved Poems.

JW: And we do that every year at Christmas.

Mary G: We'll do that--still keep that tradition.

MG: When the children was little, I'd go to the library and get them books. I'd carry

back an armful of books for them to read.

JW: Well, now, you took us, except during the polio scare.

MG: What?

JW: I said, you'd take us except during the polio scare. And then, that's when you

went and got 'em. We didn't go out then.

Mary G: When we cleaned her condo, I packed up six boxes of books, and the book

shelves are still full.

JW: Well, I'm the same way. I've got books--we took a hundred books to the library

several months ago, and still--I've got a closet full of nothing but books stacked from the

floor up, plus book shelves.

JC: Were you--I didn't have much money growing up, and my mama always told me-

-she'd go, "Hoyle, we're not ever going anywhere, but you can always go anywhere you

want in a book.

JW: Go anywhere you want and be anybody you want and see any place you want.

JC: And that's why I love 'em.

JW: I do, too.

JC: I love 'em to this day.

JW: And I told my son, "Oh, I love to read." And I said, "I don't care what it is."

He's a comic book freak--now he's thirty-eight, and he bought comic books the last week

that he was here. I'd say, comic books, Sports Illustrated--you just read. And

your children, too--Lisa--

Mary G: And Mary--

JW: Mary loved to read. My daughter didn't, initially, but she was sort of rebellious

in general. I never forget--she lives in Chicago, and a number of years ago, she called me

and she was laughing. She said, "Mom, you've got to get this book. It's the funniest

thing I've ever heard." I said, "What are you doing?" She said, "I'm sitting out on the

back porch with a glass of lemonade, reading, and having the time of my life." [laughter]

It's wonderful.

JC: Well--

JW: Well, I hope you got enough info on the mill and what you wanted--

JC: Yeah--

JW: And I think you'll find some more in here.

JC: I'll bring it back to you.

JW: Okay.

JC: We need to get permissions to like use this--

JW: It's okay.

JC: I brought two. You gotta go, don't you?

BB: Yeah, I need to get on down to the ball--

JW: Nice to meet you--

Mary G: If you're working with those--,

BB: Yeah, I%u2019ve got--I'm headed that--.

Transcribed by Martha Moore
June 2009