PATTY OSBORNE LEE

TRANSCRIPT
[Compiled September, 2008]

Interviewee: PATSY OSBORNE LEE

Interviewers: Tommy Forney and Brendan Greaves

Interview Date: September 1, 2008

Location: Shelby, NC, at the home of Carl and Doris Dedmon

Length: approximately 40 minutes

BRENDAN GREAVES: I%u2019m Brendan Greaves and I%u2019m doing the interview. Give your

name, date of birth, and place of birth, if you don%u2019t mind.

PATSY OSBORNE: I%u2019m%u2014legally was born Patsy Osborne. And I was born September 18,

1929. And, of course, the stock market crashed the next month--in October. My daddy

always teased me and said I caused it.

BG: That%u2019s not very nice. [laughter]

PO: But I grew up%u2014looking back, we were poor as church mice, but I didn%u2019t know it. We

had plenty to eat. I was never hungry. Was warm. I didn%u2019t know we were poor. Everybody else

I knew was in the same shape we were in.

BG: That%u2019s a common reaction I%u2019ve heard, talking to people, especially folks who grew up in

rural places. And I wonder what your parents thought about things. Were they worried at the

time?

PO: Oh, I%u2019m sure they were. Daddy was in with his two brothers who had a lumber yard in

Wallace, NC, when the crash came. And they lost their business in just a few months%u2019 time. And

Daddy%u2019s mother%u2019s brother was Major Schenck in Lawndale, and he gave Daddy a job as a

shipping clerk, making ten dollars a week. So my parents moved from Wallace, NC, to

Lawndale, with me, a several months old baby, and my six-year-old brother. And as I said,

I didn%u2019t know we were poor%u2014happy.

BG: So you and Tommy are related then.

PO: Yeah%u2014we%u2019re cousins.

BG: Through the Major.

PO: Cousin Tommy%u2014I think that%u2019s why I like him so.

BG: He%u2019s easy to like.

PO: [laughter] Yeah, I think so, too.

TOMMY FORNEY: Did you say that I%u2019m here?

BG: Yes%u2014for the record.

PO: You%u2019re going to get that in the record, too. [laughter]

TF: That may come up, Tommy Forney.

PO: Now, what else do you need for the record?

BG: We%u2019re done with the records, so I think we should continue where you left off.

PO: Where was that?

BG: Well%u2014childhood. We can start at the beginning. We can concentrate on music, but feel

free to talk about other things. I remember when we were over in the studio, you mentioned that

you started singing at a very young age%u2014at age eight, maybe.

PO: Yeah. My mother%u2019s youngest brother was working as an announcer at Spartanburg

WSPA. And he used to spend a lot of time with us on the weekends. He couldn%u2019t read a note of

music, but he could sit down and play anything he heard. He would bring songs%u2014that%u2019s back in

the days when radio stations would get free copies of music from people who wanted their music

played on them. So he%u2019d bring me copies of music, and he%u2019d teach me songs. I think he got a

kick out of teaching a kid songs that weren%u2019t considered kids%u2019 songs. I%u2019d sit beside the piano%u2014

and I was just in hog heaven and thoroughly enjoyed it. So he got me an audition with the

manager%u2014I was eight or nine%u2014I can%u2019t remember exactly%u2014and I got a Sunday afternoon radio

program. And, of course, I wouldn%u2019t have gotten it, if it hadn%u2019t been for him. But it was an

interesting experience, and I thought it was great to get fan mail. [laughter]

BG: And it was just you on the program%u2014or were there other singers?

PO: Well, my uncle, of course.

BG: You and your uncle?

PO: He did the announcing%u2014%u201CLittle Patty will sing%u201D%u2014that sort of stuff. I guess my next

musical experience was I started taking dancing about that time. I had two cousins who were

taking dancing at the same time, Ann and T. H. Osborne, who lived here in Shelby. The teacher

started putting us together. This was back in the days before television, and it was a much

simpler time. When Lions%u2019 Clubs and the civic things like that%u2014they would have their quarterly

meetings or their ladies%u2019 night, or whatever%u2014they would have local entertainment. So we started

being the Osborne Trio, and we%u2019d dance together. And then I%u2019d sing, and we did that sort of

thing. I thought that was cool.

BG: What kind of songs were you singing%u2014do you remember?

PO: Popular songs%u2014whatever was popular at the time.

BG: Did you have a favorite, or was there a show-stopping number that you remember?

PO: I don%u2019t remember. I don%u2019t remember details like that. That went on. I guess I started

singing with guest spots when I was about twelve with orchestras here and there. And that was

fun.

BG: On the radio, also, or was this on stage?

PO: No, this was at dances. You have to remember at the time they did a lot of that sort of

thing back then before television. That was fun. And I guess I started singing kind of regularly

with bands when I was about sixteen or seventeen.

BG: So, did you have relationships with particular bands, or would an orchestra come to

town and you%u2019d%u2014

PO: No, they would%u2014I sang with some orchestra from Gastonia. And I can%u2019t%u2014I%u2019d have to

look in my archives and get his name%u2014Charlie something or other. I started singing with Loonis

McGlohon%u2014you%u2019ve probably never heard of him%u2014but he was a Charlotte musician who was

wonderful. And he wrote some gorgeous music.

BG: What did he write?

PO: Just gorgeous. Well, you%u2019ve probably never heard of them. To me, his music never

became extremely popular because it was not like normal music. It was too%u2014it was elegant%u2014and

it was. Teddi King did a lot of his music%u2014well, you probably never heard of her, either.

She was well-known. But anyway, I sang a lot with Loonis, and then, Frank Love here. Then I

got married.

BG: How long have you known Frank?

PO: I guess I was maybe seventeen%u2014sixteen, seventeen%u2014somewhere along in there. I

started singing with his band then and enjoyed that a lot.

BG: Was that mostly locally, or did you go on tour with them?

PO: It was regional. [coughing] Excuse me. You%u2019re ruining my voice. [laughter]

BG: I%u2019m sorry. Supposed to be paying tribute to your voice.

PO: I%u2019d like to be able to blame something [laughter]%u2014besides old age, right?

BG: So were your parents supportive of your singing?

PO: Oh, yes, very much so. Daddy didn%u2019t go with me much. Mother went with me

everywhere.

BG: Was she a singer herself?

PO: Huh-uh.

BG: Your parents weren%u2019t particularly musical as your uncle?

PO: Well, my father was musical. He played by ear, too, but not as beautifully as my

uncle. But I remember sitting at the piano with Daddy when I was tiny, singing things like%u2014

I don%u2019t know%u2014little stuff. I thought that was great.

BG: Did you play piano yourself?

PO: I started taking piano when I was maybe eight or nine%u2014ten%u2014somewhere along in there.

And I took%u2014when I was at Limestone; that was my major. But I only went to Limestone for one

year. But that was going to be my major. And when I stopped that and went back home, I started

teaching piano and dancing. That was my work.

BG: Why did you stop at Limestone?

PO: Well, actually, my parents didn%u2019t have a whole lot of money. I liked it okay, but I

missed the singing. I missed that, and I could go back and do that. And besides, about that time

I met the guy that I would marry later on%u2014Robert E. Lee.

BG: I%u2019m sorry?

PO: Robert E. Lee.

BG: Robert E. Lee was his name?

PO: Um-hmm.

BG: And what did he do? What was his work?

PO: He was basically in personnel%u2014administration%u2014that sort of thing.

BG: Who did he work for?

PO: Oh, lots of people.

BG: Was he supportive of your singing as well?

PO: No, I stopped singing when I got married. I didn%u2019t do much after that. I didn%u2019t know any

orchestras or pianists in Union, where I went when we got married, and I didn%u2019t look for it. I just

started teaching dancing and then doing other things, too. But I%u2019d sing occasionally at

something, but I didn%u2019t do it, really, professionally, anymore.

BG: What kind of dance did you teach?

PO: Tap, acrobatic, and ballet.

BG: Wow!

PO: You know, back then%u2014those that can%u2019t do%u2014teach.

BG: Not always. [laughter]

PO: It was fun and I enjoyed it%u2014working with the kids.

BG: Did you teach at a school, or were they private lessons?

PO: Private lessons.

BG: So, I%u2019m curious%u2014growing up in this area%u2014were you aware of and/or interested in other

kinds of music, aside from orchestra music and things you heard on the radio%u2014for instance%u2014

were you interested in country music? Or old time music or string band music or blues?

PO: No, that never appealed to me.

BG: It wasn%u2019t on your radar?

PO: Huh-uh. At that time, I thought it was tacky. I wasn%u2019t interested in it. [laughter] Ooh%u2014

that%u2019s not for me.

BG: Fair enough.

PO: Looking back on it, I can see that in many ways I was a little snob. Your grandmother

was a big influence in my life when I was little. [speaking to Tommy Forney] I spent a lot of time

over at her house. She was good to me%u2014let me come over there. Mother always had a maid, a

cook, that was supposed to look after me, but. . . and she always let me call her %u201CFrances.%u201D

TF: Hmm.

PO: Looking back on it now, that was unusual for a kid to be calling a lady like that by her

first name. I can remember getting books that she would let me look at and putting them under

the dining room table and lying down on the floor and reading those books. [laughter] She was a

love.

TF: Um-hmm. And you were pretty close to the whole family, weren%u2019t you%u2014Leanna and--?

PO: Yeah.

TF: You sang for Charles and Frances%u2019 wedding?

PO: That was the first wedding I ever sang for, and I was scared to death. And I%u2019ve got a

picture in my archives, taken out in their yard of all the wedding party. I guess you%u2019ve seen that

picture, too.

TF: I have%u2014it%u2019s a famous family picture.

PO: Um-hmm, yeah. I got a hole in what was my husband%u2019s office%u2014one whole side of the

wall is bookcases, and all the way across one wall and now it%u2019s down onto the second shelf%u2014are

photo albums from the late 1800s to the present. The kids tease me%u2014call them %u201Cmama%u2019s

archives.%u201D One day my son and daughter were together, and I said, %u201CYou all laugh at my archives

now, but one of these days when I%u2019m gone, you%u2019re going to be fighting over them!%u201D They looked

at each other like%u2014mom%u2019s really lost it now. And I said, Lou%u2019s going to say, %u201CAnn, you take

%u2018em.%u201D And Ann%u2019s going to say, %u201CLou, I don%u2019t have room for %u2018em. You take %u2018em.%u201D [laughter] But

it tickles me now. The grandchildren%u2014my grandchildren now are twenty-seven, twenty-four, and

twenty-two, and Ann%u2019s daughter is fifteen. And all of the grandchildren in the last%u2014since they

were teenagers%u2014every time they come there, they want to see the albums when they were babies

and growing up and when their daddy or their mother was their age. So%u2014that pleases me that%u2014I

say, okay, they%u2019re going to be interested in it.

TF: You have them identified as to who%u2019s who?

PO: Oh, yeah%u2014and dated.

TF: Oh, good.

PO: I try to put little things in the paper of what was happening then. So I think my

archives are kind of interesting.

BG: You sound very organized.

PO: Some things are organized. Some are not. Don%u2019t ever look under my beds. [laughter]

BG: Okay. Are your children or your grandchildren musical?

PO: No%u2014sorry%u2014they%u2019re not. I can%u2019t think of anything else to tell you.

BG: I%u2019ve got a couple more questions if you don%u2019t mind. Tell me when you get bored or tired

or whatever.

PO: Or if I think you%u2019re getting nosey? [laughter]

BG: Or fed up--or if I offend you. Please just say so. Could you talk a little bit about being

Miss North Carolina? I saw your picture with Perry Como.

PO: You did?

BG: It was passed around today.

PO: I didn%u2019t see that. [laughter]

BG: Jean had it under her arm. She was clutching it and passing it around kind of furtively.

PO: Why, that%u2019s sneaky!

BG: Feeding him cake%u2014

PO: There was a funny story behind that. I was at this%u2014I think it was somewhere in North

Carolina%u2014can%u2019t remember the name. I%u2019d have to look in the archives again. But it was a tobacco

tamasha. The town celebrated or had a tobacco tamasha every year. And it was put on by

Chesterfield ABC Company. They asked me to come as the ABC girl. I rode in the parade on a

big Chesterfield pack of cigarettes, propped up as the ABC girl. Then, at the luncheon%u2014or

outside picnic or whatever%u2014the photographers came and wanted me to pose for a picture lighting

Perry Como%u2019s cigarette. My mother said, %u201COh, no. You can%u2019t do that because that would be

endorsing cigarettes.%u201D And I didn%u2019t see the humor of it then. Later, I thought, I%u2019m sitting on a

pack of cigarettes in a parade, and that%u2019s not endorsing cigarettes? [laughter] So Mother was

satisfied when one of the photographers came up with idea for me to feed Perry Como barbecue.

BG: Oh, barbecue%u2014okay.

PO: So that was all right. I was the ABC girl. [laughter]

BG: So were you the ABC girl because you had won the pageant?

PO: Yeah, sure.

BG: And how did that come about--the pageant--the Miss North Carolina title? What's that

story?

PO: Who used to sponsor the local pageants? Was some--like Lions--some men's club that

sponsored it, I think. I had been doing singing, and they came to Mother and asked if I could be

in the pageant. Well, or course. So I did. So I won the Shelby pageant and went on to the state

pageant. I didn't win it on looks and figure. I won it because I had been singing for ten years and

had a lot of experience in that. So I could sing pretty well. That's what I won it on. Actually, I

think one of the judges told one of the men in the local sponsorship after the talent thing--he said

unless she really looks awful in a bathing suit, she's got it. [laughter] So I never felt like--um%u2014

you've got it--I won in spite of that.

BG: What song did you sing?

PO: I don't remember. "Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly---" maybe it was "Can't Help Loving

That Man"--I don't remember; I really don't. I might could look that up in the archives.

BG: Today you did a great rendition of "Dark Town Strutters' Ball" at the rehearsal.

[laughter] I liked it--it was great--it was a good performance. Was that a song you had sung

before?

PO: No.

BG: No.

PO: I just--you know, that's a little short one, and I thought, you can make something kinda

funny out of it. And as I've gotten older. Your voice--you can't sing the things you used to. The

vibrato flaps like a flag in the wind and you--I've turned into a whiskey baritone and I don't drink

whiskey. [laughter] It goes down to the basement. So I can't sing all the songs that I used to. I

still love to bang on--I've learned to play chords and just accompany myself on the piano and just

have fun with it by myself at home. Nobody has to hear me sing. [laughter] I don't have to worry

about my vibrato.

BG: So the primary occasion for your playing music today is just at home?

PO: Yeah.

BG: Good.

BG: Well, we'd like to interview Frank Love as well. I think I'm going to try to see him when

I come back next month. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about what it was like

working with him. I've heard so many things about his talent.

PO: He's a very talented guy--he really was, and I learned a lot. Regular singing with a band-

-you get a lot of experience in different type situations and different type music and that sort of

thing. You learn a lot. It was fun. I don't know what good it does me now, but it was fun then.

[laughter]

BG: Good memories, right?

PO: Yep--um-hmm. I can't think of anything really interesting now.

BG: Do you have a favorite moment from your singing career that you remember? Or worst

moment?

PO: No, I really can't.

BG: Do you have any questions, Tommy? [laughter]

TF: I can think of a couple. I want to know about Loonis McGlohon. I know who Loonis

McGlohon is, and I think that's real fascinating. There's a theatre--The First Baptist Church in

Charlotte is named the Loonis McGlohon Theater now--

PO: Oh, really?

TF: Spirit Square--I think I'm right about this. It was Spirit Square for a long time, and now,

they have--since Loonis died--

PO: Yes--

TF: They have named it the theater there, which is the old First Baptist sanctuary, a beautiful

space with stained glass sort of around the place--

PO: Do you know what--

TF: A lot of people who appreciate Loonis in Charlotte.

PO: Oh yes, he was--

TF: But you're right--he was of a quality that never went out real far.

PO: Huh-uh. His music was just not the type to be really popular.

TF: Yeah. The one I've heard so much about, and I've heard the song, too, that he wrote%u2014

"Blackberry Winter"?

PO: Oh, yeah. %u201CBlackberry Winter%u201D 'Course, my favorite is--oh, I can't think of the name of it

right now. I can see it, but--

BG: How does it go?

PO: "I wake up in the morning, and you're sleeping by my side"--[humming]--"I live to be in

love with you." He wrote it for his wife, Nan. I've tried to find out if she was alive. I called Ty

Boyd several months ago and asked him if he could look into it and let me know if Nan--and he

gave me a number and I tried to call it, and it was not in service anymore.

TF: Well, Ty ought to know. Also, Mike Collins might know.

PO: Who is he?

TF: WFAE--

PO: Is he a friend of yours?

TF: I don't know him personally. He's an interviewer. He has a show called "Charlotte

Talks."

PO: Oh, okay.

TF: He is very musically astute. He knows good music.

PO: Well, the--

TF: And he knows--

PO: Well, the story behind that song, "I Live to Be in Love with You"--he wrote it for his

wife, Nan, and they were married for sixty-something years. Rob and I, before his health got

bad--we went to--for about three or four years, we went up to the Grove Park Inn in Asheville

every January--sometime in the winter--sometime in the winter they would have a jazz festival%u2014

TF: Still do, I think.

PO: And Loonis was there. And we were sitting at the table with Nan when Loonis and his

group and a female singer sang that "I Live to Be in Love with You." And when it was over, I

was wiping the tears out my eyes, and I looked over at Nan, and she was wiping tears out of her

eyes. And I said, "Nan, you still cry when you hear that?" She said, "Every time." He said that

was his love song for people who had been married long enough to know what real love was.

So that's always meant a lot to me.

TF: Are you recorded with Loonis or anyone--that you know of?--you are now.

PO: Not that I know of. I wasn't that good, darling.

TF: I believe Frank said he helped you put together your music or arrangement for the Miss

North Carolina pageant.

PO: He might have. I don't remember.

TF: He was pretty young. He wasn't much older than you at that time, wasn't he?

PO: He was married.

TF: Was he married?

PO: Uh-huh. I think.

TF: I was thinking tonight--I've been talking with Brendan and explaining who everybody is

with the Piedmont Players, Jane's group that does this every year. There's a lot of talented people

in that room.

PO: It is. It's amazing. It really is.

TF: Linda and Martha and Jane and--

PO: You missed a couple of 'em that weren't there today.

TF: And yourself and Conrad and--

PO: It's amazing to me.

TF: And several of them are professional or semi-professional--choir directors, and that sort

of thing. I just wonder if you think there's anything--any reason or anything special--it seems for

a small town like that--

PO: I don't know.

TF: To have, basically, all that--and a lot of you all went to the same high school--same

Piedmont--

PO: Well, there's only one school there. It's amazing to me that--you got Jane Cook who puts

it together, and she does a fantastic job of putting it together. And Ray%u2014[meaning Ray Ledford]

TF: Want you to talk about Ray a little bit--

PO: He is something else. And his father--that's an unusual family situation.

TF: You and I know that, but Brendan doesn't know that, and other people don't know that, so

can you elaborate a little bit about what you know about growing up around Ray

and Tycie and--

PO: Actually, see when I was growing up, I didn't know that Ray was musical. Never heard

him. He was so quiet in school. He was a good student, but you never heard Ray--he never

really talked out in class or anything. He was just shy. I think later on, when I found out how

musical he was, I was really surprised.

TF: What was the first time you were around him in a musical situation? How did you get to

know that he was--that he played?

PO: I knew that he played, but really, to get to know him musically was when I started

coming up here for these reunions.

TF: You sort of missed that when--

PO: Yep.

BG: When did you move to South Carolina? Was it when you got married?

PO: Um-hmm--1950. I was married for fifty-five and a half years to Robert E. Lee.

BG: Wow. [laughter--Patsy] And did you work during that time?

PO: Off and on--several things. Again, I taught dancing. Before I had my children, another

friend and I had--I had taught dancing in Jonesville, and Union, and. I think, Whitmire. You

know, we'd--no, not Whitmire--another little town close by--Lockhart, maybe--I can't remember.

Then, after I got tired of that and my children got a little bit of age, I went to typing school and

learned typing and started doing secretarial stuff--junk.

BG: You didn't like it?

PO: I did it for a while. It was okay. But not as much fun as music.

BG: So if you weren't exactly aware of how musical Ray was, one of your peers growing up,

what about other friends and kids you grew up with--or folks around you?

PO: Nobody particularly musical. So--I mean--had a lot of friends.

TF: Except for Nancy--you told Frank about Nancy, right?

PO: Nancy?

TF: Nancy--

PO: Nancy Elam.

TF: Didn't you tell Frank when you were leaving--

PO: But that was like--but that's right--that was young years, I guess.

TF: Well, it was when you got married--and then you--

PO: Yeah, that's what it was--when I got married, I told him to try Nancy. I forgot about that.

TF: You all both spoke at the award last year?

PO: Um-hmm.

TF: When they gave Frank the award.

PO: That was fun. Well, I think I've told you all my story, honey. [laughter} Wasn't it

exciting?

BG: I think so. [laughter] Is there anyone else you think we should talk to? Do you have any

other suggestions for folks who may have been involved in music in Cleveland County, that you

think, you've got to talk to so-and-so?

PO: Nobody comes to mind right now. If I think of somebody--hmm--I can't really--

TF: Were there any fiddlers or--you said you weren't really interested in sort of down-home

type music, but did you know anybody that down the road--hey, he plays the fiddle, or--did you

ever run into anybody like that or were aware of anybody like that--or even in the family, who

might have played something besides, maybe, piano?

PO: Can't think of anything--nothing comes to mind. But of course, I have old age rot of the

memory, too.

TF: Your grandmother was ninety--is that right--ninety--

PO: Grandma Schenck?

TF: Um-hmm.

PO: Osborne.

TF: And Minny Schenck Ramseur--she apparently played some organ, because--

PO: Oh, really?

TF: Because there's a story--she wrote a story, or she dictated a story--

PO: Now that's your grandmother?

TF: Yeah--my great grandmother.

PO: Great grandmother, yeah.

TF: Thomas--Tom Ramseur would carry this portable organ--it was a pump organ--up to the

Piedmont school area. This was way back. And she would play that for the sort of

combination that might have been for the church--the Union Church or the school--I have

forgotten exactly which it was. I don't know how musical she was, but she would play that

organ.

PO: Well, that's the first I've heard of that.

TF: Need to dig out that little story--

PO: One thing I look forward to with heaven is getting to know family members that I've

never known.

TF: Fill in the blanks.

PO: Yeah. Now that was your--that was Frances Forney's mother. So that was your great

grandmother.

TF: Yes. And there were the three siblings, John--

PO: John, Minny, and Maggie.

TF: And that makes us like--what--second--third cousins?

PO: What?

TF: Second or third cousins, or something like that? I'd have to sit down and figure it out.

PO: Whatever--we're kissing cousins anyway. You hurting?

TF: No, I'm fine.

BG: Do you have a favorite song?

PO: Pardon?

BG: Do you have a favorite song?

PO: Huh-uh.

BG: That's a hard question. [laughter] It would be for me, anyway. A good man to it--have

tried it--some people to--try to pick favorites. Well, the last question I usually like to ask is are

there any questions I should have asked you? Is there anything else that I should know or that

you want to talk about?

PO: I can't think of anything interesting.

TF: She's not sure of why we asked her questions in the first place.

BG: I know. You're far too modest. [laughter]

BG: Modesty makes a difficult interview subject--I've got to say.

PO: I am not modest. [laughter] Believe me, one of my problems--one of my biggest sins

is ego. And the other one is impatience.

BG: Maybe we better call it quits. [laughter]

PO: I have a friend in my Sunday school class--I co-teach a Sunday school class of men and

women who are senior citizens. There is no class that is in a higher age group at church, so we

laugh and say that the only way to leave our class is to graduate--go up. Now what was I going

to--he made me a poster to go on my refrigerator. And it's a little female-looking creature of

some kind, and sweat is coming out, and she's wringing her hands, and she's saying, "Lord, I need

patience, and I want it right now!" So he knows me pretty well. And, of course, my other

problem is ego. But I think a lot of people have ego problems. I think that ego is the root of

every sin that I can think of.

TF: Well, I guess it's hard to be a performer, in a way, without a little bit of that--

PO: It's hard to do a lot of things without a little bit of ego.

BG: That's true.

PO: But just--I try to not let it get out of hand, but it ain't easy, always.

BG: Well, thank you very much for your time.

PO: Well, my ego is pleased that you wanted to find out about me. [laughter] Intellectually, I

think, why? [laughter]

BG: No, it was a real pleasure talking to you.

PO: If you write anything, or whatever, you going to send me a copy?

BG: Oh, yeah--absolutely--

PO: Well, do you have my number?

BG: That's what we're going to fill these forms out for.

PO: Oh. Well, let me fill it.

END OF INTERVIEW