REV. WADE WALLACE

TRANSCRIPT %u2013 REV. WADE WALLACE
[Compiled July 2nd, 2010]

Interviewee: REV. WADE WALLACE

Interviewers: Joy Scott

Interview Date: January 17th, 2009

Location: Green Bethel Baptist Church in Boiling Springs, North Carolina

Length: Approximately 70 minutes

JOY SCOTT: This is Joy Scott. The date today is January 17th. The location is Green Bethel Missionary Baptist Church. I%u2019m interviewing Rev. Wade Wallace. Rev. Wallace, can you please confirm you%u2019re in the room by stating your full name, the location, and your date of birth, please.
REV. WADE WALLACE: Wade Wallace. We%u2019re here at Green Bethel Baptist Church on this January the 17th, 2009. My date of birth is June 5th, 1949.
JS: Okay, great, great. Now Rev. Wallace, how long have you been pastor?
WW: I%u2019ve been here at Green Bethel for thirteen-and-a-half years.
JS: Thirteen-and-a-half years, okay. Can you kind of walk me through an overview of the history of the church? I see you have a%u2026
WW: %u2026Yeah, I put some notes down; I can. During the early years of slavery, the black people of this community, they worshipped with Boiling Springs Baptist Church. They were afforded the opportunity to hear the word of God preached and taught from the rear of the church sanctuary.
By the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Jerry Green founded Green Bethel Baptist Church in 1867. The Green name stood for the founder, Jerry Green, and Bethel was for the house of God, which is based on the scriptures in Genesis, twenty-eighth chapter, nineteenth through the twenty-second verses. The original church structure was built of logs with plank shutters for windows, a dirt floor, seats that were made of slab. There was a large fireplace that was used for heating. The building was located on the south side of what is now Gardner-Webb University. This building was also used to house the first black school in Boiling Springs, which was Green Bethel School. Water was obtained from a large spring known as the big spring. Later, it was called Boiling Springs.
The original membership was twenty or less members, with the Rev. Doc Blanton as its first pastor. Others who served as pastor were Rev. W.W. Price, Rev. C.A. Weaver, Rev. W.L. Johnson, Rev. S.B. McBrayer, Rev. H.H. Davis, Rev. R.C. Duncan, Rev Moses Javis; he left a strong impressions upon the congregation. He ended up leaving this church and taking a pastorate in Florida, and I think that he just retired about two years ago, but he pastured here. It%u2019s probably been forty years ago, but they, many of the folk, they still remember him with fond memories. We had Rev. Robert B. Blanton, Rev. Kenneth Martin, the Rev. Dr. Ralph Logan Carson, and then, myself as the present pastor. Now, there have been some other pastors; the history has kind of been lost of them, but this is what we know that we still have a record of, as far as Green Bethel is concerned.
Like I said, the original site was there on Gardner-Webb campus, and at some point, when, I guess, they were seeking to organize Gardner-Webb, and it wasn%u2019t at that time Gardner-Webb, but the school that was there, and I%u2019m sorry, the name fails me right now. But anyway, agreement was worked out to where Green Bethel ended up with this property. The Boiling Springs Baptist Church, the building that they were in was moved from the site that they had. It was brought to this property. Yeah, moving cranes, whatever, they did--I guess, the initial work--I don%u2019t know what length of time it took to do that, but then on one Saturday morning, they started and brought that building and brought it here. So, maybe a couple of years, the building was used by Green Bethel, and the building burned down. Mysteriously, or whatever, it burned down. There is some oral history as to what happened with that, but the building did burn, so they built another, I guess, a sanctuary that housed them for a number of years. This portion that we%u2019re in right now was a part of the old Green Bethel School.
JS: So this office that we%u2019re in now, which is your office now%u2026
WW: %u2026Would have been a part of the old Green Bethel School. All of this back here on this end was a part of the old Green Bethel School. At one point, if you went out the back door here, there was another building. There is a picture that we have right here. [They are looking at pictures] There is a picture of the--it%u2019s not there, old--Rosenwald, I believe, is the name, that was, I guess, a Jewish philanthropist that, he gave millions of dollars to have schools built in black communities. Well, poor communities. I%u2019m sorry. It was really poor communities, because I believe it was not just the black communities.
But the former church that I pastured before I came here had one of those buildings. They had done some work that would not allow us to get funding because they had done some things to that building, but they had one of those buildings as well, here. Most of the older members that went to school, they went, in part, in that old, I think it%u2019s Rosenwald school building.
JS: I%u2019m sorry, where is that?
WW: The building?
JS: Um-hmm.
WW: Well, it%u2019s gone now, but it was just right back out here. I%u2019ll try and locate the picture that they have of that building. All of them were pretty much, you can almost tell when you see one that there was a standard structure that they had. You can just about identify it. They were a lot of places all over the South, but they had one here. One of your things is that my father was a pastor.
JS: Okay.
WW: There was a building that--at one time we were building--when he was building there in (9:41), South Carolina. I%u2019m almost sure that the building that we used temporarily while they were having the new building, was one of those Rosenwald buildings.
JS: Really?
WW: That just came to mind. I need to try and search that out and go back, because I%u2019m almost sure that was one of those buildings, %u2018cause I mean, they have kind of a standard structure. I%u2019m sure that was kind of the way that building was. But anyway, Margaret Mitchell, she is one of our senior members. She was the first graduate, high school graduate, from the Green Bethel School.
JS: Hmm.
WW: She was the first one. I%u2019m not [pause]. She can give you a lot of information in relationship to that, but Green Bethel has been blessed as far as--. There are a lot of folk who have come through here, and I wish I had had more time to have tried to record some stuff for you. But there have been a lot of folk who have come through this church and school who have done very, very well. You know, we%u2019re thankful to the Lord for that. I%u2019ll try and get some of that and get it to you later on.
JS: Do any names come to mind?
WW: [Pause] I can%u2019t think.
JS: If I hadn%u2019t asked you, you%u2019d probably %u2026
WW: %u2026It would have. In fact, I%u2019m thinking about one of the ladies that I have. I%u2019m chaplain at Cleveland Pines Nursing Center. One of the ladies that I have over there, and her brother passed about two years ago now, and he had sang at Carnegie Hall. The name will not come to me right now, but I%u2019ll try and get you some information and share with you. But we%u2019ve had teachers, you know, quite a number of folk that have ended up teaching school. Oh, I can%u2019t think of his first name, but the last name is Bridges. He was one of the first black superintendents in North Carolina and he served there at [pause] Raleigh. But anyway, he came through here.
By way of Green Bethel, we%u2019ve got--one of our young men right now, that he just finished two years ago, engineering school, and he%u2019s working for Shaw, the Shaw Group. He will be working on a nuclear plant for one of the Asian nations. He is doing very, very well. We had one of our young men that has finished the Naval Academy that%u2019s here in recent years. You know, we%u2019ve had a lot of folk that have done very well. We%u2019re really thankful to the Lord for them. Do you have any questions you want me to spark something up from my mind?
JS: How has the congregation grown over the years?
WW: [Pause] It seemed that from, I guess, say, from the mid-sixties, it had kind of a steady growth, and I would say that somewhere in the eighties it kind of plateaued and went down. There are some things--the church has not actually had a split, but there was someone, a minister in one of the other areas that seemingly impacted not just Green Bethel, but it did impact Green Bethel, but a number of churches in the area in the eighties. It ended up that there was a lot of folk, they maybe got confused as far as their beliefs were concerned, and so there was quite a few folk that ended up leaving from this church and some of the others that%u2019s in this area. So, at one time, when I came to this area thirty-two years ago, I believe that Green Bethel was maybe boasting a membership of somewhere around about four hundred members. It%u2019s about 160, somewhere between 160 and 170 right now, as far as the membership is concerned.
JS: Members on the roll?
WW: That%u2019s right.
JS: Okay. So, I don%u2019t want to harp on this too much; I just want to make sure I have a clear understanding. So there was a reverend or someone who came to the area who was talking%u2026
WW: %u2026Yeah, there was quite a few of the churches, and I%u2019m not sure if Green Bethel ever used this individual, but he did quite a number of revivals all around. When I came to this area, I was hearing his name, hearing his name, and then finally I got to see him in revival. Well, anyway, actually the denomination that he was a part of, he actually wound up leaving that denomination because he had become so, I guess, radical, as opposed to what the beliefs of that particular denomination was. But anyway, he impacted quite a number of folk. I felt like a lot of people didn%u2019t know which way was up [laughter] because of how he had impacted them. They were just drawn to him. He was very charismatic, I guess you might say. But he impacted this church and he impacted some other churches, but I know that he really impacted, you know.
JS: I got you.
WW: That kind of left them--they lost a fair amount of members. It wasn%u2019t a split, but they lost a fair amount of members. So, we%u2019re trying to build back up. We%u2019re trying to build back up, and we believe that we%u2019re seeing some things and believe it%u2019s going to make a turn. When you have people leaving a congregation, folks start to kind of--there%u2019s inner tensions, and sometimes we want to figure out how and who to blame for what, so when we turn on one another, it takes a while for healing to occur. You know, then whenever you get to a point to where [sound break] and to appreciate one another for who one another is--. All of us are different; we have our differences, but appreciate and recognize what your main purpose is, you know, and you work toward fulfilling what%u2019s the purpose of this church. We%u2019re supposed to be promoting Christ and allowing others to see Christ in us, and we really work at that. We do what the church does best. Then the church does grow.
JS: I want to go back to the school for a moment.
WW: Okay.
JS: What years was the school in existence?
WW: I am not sure. I%u2019d have to check on that for you. I%u2019m thinking it would have been like in--from the twenties, but I would say up until the sixties, the early sixties, I guess, it would have been in existence. At some point somewhere in the sixties, I think, was when they changed--well, they built this building over here, which became Cleveland School, I believe it was, and closed Green Bethel School. So, then that was part of integration. Everybody was (20:24). That school was already built because a lot of the--at some point they did once they had that building. I%u2019m not sure if the Rosenwald building would have still been there at that point. During the forties and fifties, for sure, I believe they say the Rosenwald building would have been back here. Then they built this brick structure. My understanding from some of the old folk, the way they built that school, it%u2019s probably one of the most solid buildings that you can find. The only thing is, is that there is that asbestos that was used, so that makes it, until it%u2019s cleaned out, unusable. But I%u2019m not sure about the years. I would have to check on that for you.
JS: Do you know the population, the school population, how many students, teachers?
WW: [Pause] There was probably, because my understanding is that some of the grades were oftentimes combined, but there would have probably been ten or twelve teachers, with teacher and principal and janitor and stuff like that, there probably always would have been at least that amount. Because the school, the building itself, never was that large. I%u2019m not sure of how many they would have housed at any one given time. Those schools, if they would have held seventy-five students, I%u2019d say you%u2019ve been pressed pretty tight just trying to put that many students in those old Rosenwald--. When they built this over here, they were probably handling a few hundred children, I imagine. There was still up until around, I%u2019d say %u201965, somewhere around in there, I think that that was still Green Bethel, and then it was--sometime in that period was when they actually changed to, it was Cleveland School was what they called it. Then there was a few more years, must have been %u201969, somewhere around there when they actually integrated the schools here in Cleveland County.
JS: Are there still any traces of Green Bethel School and the church, like any desks, or is there a plaque or--?
WW: Now, see there%u2019s a desk that may have been in that school. I%u2019m not sure. There is a picture that%u2019s probably in here on this wall that would show, I believe, the front of the old church building. So, I%u2019m not sure if there%u2019s anything that they have that%u2019s actually left, unless it is a desk that%u2019s in one of these rooms. I%u2019m not sure, but I%u2019m thinking that there is not a desk. That was here when I first came, but I%u2019m not sure if it%u2019s still in any of these rooms. But, I%u2019m not sure if it would have actually been from the original [pause] school either. If you want to take a walk-through, we can take and see, but I%u2019m not placing anything, other than just the building itself that they would have that represents the old school. Well, there are some old chairs, a few of the old wooden chairs that they%u2019ve got, but that%u2019s probably about all.
JS: Switching gears, when I pulled up, I noticed there%u2019s a cemetery behind the church. Because I didn%u2019t see all--there%u2019s about how many--how large is that cemetery? And when did the church start its cemetery?
WW: Okay, ever since they%u2019ve been at this site, I%u2019m sure that they%u2019ve been using the burial ground. It%u2019s back in the late 1800; it has to be. I think there%u2019s a couple of markers that%u2019s maybe right outside that the persons would have passed before the turn of the century. It starts out here to the side and goes back, I guess you%u2019ve got about a fourth of an acre that really, the number of graves that they have--. There%u2019s a lot of them that never were marked. I guess people have put just a stone, and then somebody moved your stone, so folk ended up not knowing where their family members were buried.
There have been some over here on this side, to the front side of the church there, that I guess I had some question. A few years ago, I was concerned as to whether or not, with land erosion, as to whether or not there was some that could have actually been washed because, [pause] deterioration. You know what I%u2019m saying? But there are some graves that are really close to that edge over there. There%u2019s, I say, seventy-five to a hundred gravesites on this front on back. Some of them have--you know, they are marked and you can%u2019t [sound break], but for the most part, you don%u2019t have any idea who many of the people are. I had someone come--it%u2019s been, I guess, four or five years ago, and they were concerned about trying to find a family member%u2019s grave. It had been years since they had come back home. Well, they weren%u2019t doing anything; they weren%u2019t keeping in touch with anybody, so all trace as to where that person was just wasn%u2019t available because the folk who possibly would have known--you know, they%u2019re gone. They%u2019re gone or they have gotten to an age where they wouldn%u2019t be able to identify something.
We%u2019re trying to keep up with--we%u2019ve got another burial spot for Green Bethel that%u2019s off of James Lovelace Road, so we%u2019re trying to maintain a record of where everyone is and keep up with it, and encouraging the folk to try and put a marker down. We give them a certain length of time to try and take care of that and then if they don%u2019t, we go on and put a flat marker down to where we%u2019ll always know who is buried in the cemetery.
JS: And that%u2019s how far from here?
WW: It%u2019s, I guess, about a fourth of a mile. Just go right out here and make a right and down to James Lovelace Road. There%u2019s a Masonic hall that sits right out there on the corner, but you go down that road there and we%u2019re sitting off to the right down there. One of the former deacons, J.V. Watkins--the cemetery sits behind what was his old home.
JS: So how do you--? I%u2019m sorry, go ahead.
WW: It%u2019s several acres. I%u2019m not sure as to exactly how many, but it%u2019s several acres of land down in there that they have.
JS: So how do you distinguish between the two cemeteries? Is the one behind the church--that%u2019s called the Green Bethel Cemetery? The one on James Lovelace, that%u2019s called Green Bethel Cemetery as well?
WW: Um-hmm. We just refer to that one as the upper cemetery.
JS: The upper cemetery?
WW: The upper cemetery is what I think I initially picked up on. They just called that the upper cemetery and this one is just here at the church building.
JS: Okay. So the upper cemetery is larger?
WW: Right. Oh, yes, it%u2019s much larger. There is enough property, really, up there where the other cemetery is to actually build if the church determined that they wanted to build up there. They%u2019ve got a real nice property up there. The Lord willing, this spring, we%u2019ve got one of the men of the church say that we%u2019re going to be working toward trying to maybe using some of that as a garden spot for our church and community, so we%u2019ll plant a garden and see how well it will do. The ones that store food and freeze it, can it or whatever, try and see how we%u2019ll fare this year. It%u2019s kind of been something I%u2019ve wanted to do for a number of years, but there%u2019s one of them that kind of determined that that%u2019s something they want to try.
I came from Charlotte here and didn%u2019t grow up knowing anything about working in a garden, so when I came, then my wife--and they started trying to teach me how to do. [Laughter] They have to re-train me every year [laughter] because I forget, but I like, if I could get the time, I like gardens and I just like the food out of that garden a whole lot better than what you get out of the store if I get the opportunity to do it. We did that for several years when we first came to Shelby, but it just got to where there is too much going on, and stuff%u2019s getting ready to come, you need to be ready to gather it, and I couldn%u2019t keep up. So, we just kind of stopped doing it. I hope that through the church we%u2019ll be able to coordinate, see something coordinated where a lot of us will be able to have fresh vegetables, uh-huh, yeah.
JS: Now you said you are from Charlotte, from the Charlotte area?
WW: I was born and reared in Charlotte.
JS: So what brought you to Green Bethel?
WW: Well, I came to Shelby in 1976, was pastor at Hopper%u2019s Chapel in West Shelby. We pastured there for eleven-and-a-half years, and then I left there after we built the building. They were down in the community on what ended up getting wiped out by redevelopment. They were at 415 (35:25) Street and we ended up on West Graham when we built. When I left there, I went to Mt. Vernon Baptist Church in Iron Station in Lincoln County. When Dr. Carson was in the process of leaving here, I came to the--they were having revival, and Rev. Clinton Feemster from Mt. Zion in Kings Mountain, he was speaking in revival here. I came one night and Dr. Carson encouraged me to pursue becoming pastor here. My wife and I, we really were thinking in terms of, actually considering leaving Shelby all together and going back to Charlotte, but we came and he was encouraging. I had a few conversations with him, and that%u2019s what we ended up doing, and we ended up becoming pastor here.
JS: So in your thirteen-and-a-half years of it, you have a lot of memories, a lot of fond memories, stories?
WW: Oh, yeah. There are some wonderful people here at this church. I%u2019ve been blessed and thank the Lord that I%u2019ve been here, you know, and some of the things we%u2019ve seen that we%u2019ve been blessed to see accomplished. Paid off their mortgage, essentially, and some of the other things, as far as--they%u2019ve gotten new units as far as the air conditioning, painting the sanctuary. We had to have the steeple taken down because ever since they%u2019d had that, when they put the steeple up for however many years, this building was erected, the new sanctuary, must have been around 1972, I think it was. They had had leaking problems and so, finally, we had it taken down. Well, hopefully within the next few months, by the help of the Lord, we%u2019re going to have the steeple placed back. But they%u2019ve remodeled this study and PA system, did a PA system here, carpet that they didn%u2019t have here in the hallway here in the educational department and here in the study.
There%u2019s quite a few things that they%u2019ve done--new refrigerator and various things that have been accomplished. Up at the upper cemetery, having re-cut the road because it had gotten to where you couldn%u2019t drive through. When I first came and they were using that cemetery--not when I first came as pastor here, when I first came to this area and I would come out here for funerals, I knew that I%u2019d come and you could make a complete circle through that upper cemetery, things had gotten overgrown. When I first came, actually my brother-in-law and a couple of friends, we went up there, and I%u2019m not sure how many acres it is, but most of it was just overgrown. Not where the graves were; there were some probably that, but most of that property. So, he bush-hogged that for the church. He left his equipment for, I guess, maybe a couple of weeks. But, you know, we would come in the evenings and go out there and work. They helped train me to operate the tractor. [Laughed] But, you know, we cleared that down to where it looked like it should.
There%u2019s been a lot of things that have been done. We had one of the young men in our church, I mean, he is excellent at concrete work. He just did the handicap ramp, and hopefully, in the next few weeks we%u2019ll have the railing put up. Stanley Humphries, he does a good, good job. In fact, he and his father were the ones that actually did the paving when they originally built here. For the first few years, I%u2019m not sure how things worked. They had the tar and stuff out there. Anyway, they put the paving that%u2019s out there now, he and his father did that for the church.
JS: So, let me take it back to you first coming to Green Bethel. Do you still remember your first sermon?
WW: Wow!
JS: [Laughter] WW: Wow! I don%u2019t [whisper and then laughter]. I don%u2019t [whisper].
JS: What was the reception like when you first came?
WW: I was well-received. I was well-received. You know, some of the members, I guess quite a number of the members had known me because I had been in this area for a number of years and had served with the Ebony Association. At one time, I had served as the emergency fund director for the association, had served as secretary with the Ebony Association, and at one time was one of the vice-moderators with the association. So there were quite a few of them that had known me, so I was well-received overall. One of the other things is that serving as a chaplain with the hospital, there had been quite a few folk that over the years at some point, they or some family member had been there and they had encountered me in that way. So, I was very well-received by this congregation.
JS: What would you say, of all your thirteen-and-a-half years, what would you say is your fondest memory of being at the church?
WW: [Pause] One of the most recent fond memories is just that the church recognized my wife and they gave her a special day. That%u2019s one of the most meaningful things that%u2019s ever happened in my entire years of about thirty-two years of pastoring, was that they took the time to recognize her.
JS: What%u2019s her name again?
WW: Linda.
JS: Linda.
WW: Linda Joyce, Linda Joyce. You know, there%u2019s a lot of things that I%u2019m grateful for that I%u2019ve seen as far as pasturing here. One of the other is that one of the young men--when I first came here, I probably hadn%u2019t been here six months, and I told the congregation there were four young fellows, maybe in junior high school, probably that time--I told them, I said that they have the potential for being preacher, president. Some of them, you know, they didn%u2019t take that as seriously as I meant it because I felt like they have the potential. They have the potential.
This is kind of off course, but one of the things that%u2019s bugged me with Barack Obama being elected as president is to have listened to so many black Americans, Afro-American folk, say that they never believed that they would have lived to see it, because I grew up being sewn in my spirit that it was going to happen and that I should have that expectation. I was listening to something last evening; it just kind of blows my mind that many folk who have been in leadership positions down through the years, who are saying to our young people to strive for, and then, in a sense, they were saying one thing, but they didn%u2019t believe what they were saying. That%u2019s troubled my spirit a whole lot, to not believe what you%u2019re actually telling young people. Anyway, I ended up getting into that--was that, you know, I did the wedding ceremony for one of these young men, back a few months ago. He%u2019s doing very well. He finished at the University of South Carolina back a few years ago, and then he%u2019s gone on and gotten his masters here at Gardner-Webb. The young lady that he married, she was working as a reporter when she first came out of college. She was up there around Salisbury. She went back to school and she%u2019s teaching now. But I mean, they%u2019re just a fine couple, but see now, I look at them and I say he has the potential for being president, just a fine young man. I think we ought to encourage our young people, and they ought to know that we believe in them and we believe what we%u2019re encouraging them to aspire to the goals we want them to reach. It just kind of unnerves me because I%u2019ve listened to so many folk who are in the political forefront, as far as the black community is concerned, who have made that statement that they didn%u2019t believe. And of one of the other things, and I shared this with the congregation, that struck me is that once Barack was elected, then some say, %u201CWell, we won%u2019t get to see it happen again.%u201D Well, that%u2019s another shot to our young people. Why would you say that even after Barack, that the next person could not be a black person? It%u2019s a mentality thing we have to ask the Lord to help us overcome, that we don%u2019t shoot our own selves in the foot.
JS: So is that what you try to bring to Green Bethel in your years here?
WW: Oh, yes, to believe that God is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him, that they can reach their goals. If stumbling blocks come in your way, if you falter in some way, don%u2019t give up on your dream. I%u2019ve got a young lady that grew up with me in church that worked for, I%u2019d say, probably twenty-five years, she worked for Bell South. But anyway, she%u2019s teaching now. I guess she%u2019s probably been teaching about four or five years. But, that%u2019s one of the things that are encouraging to me, that you might get off course for some time, but I tell the folk here at Green Bethel and everywhere else I go: Mrs. Ezra Bridges, as sharp as Mrs. Ezra Bridges is still, and she still seeks to gain knowledge and information that if you have not reached a hundred, I don%u2019t want to hear you complaining, that you ought to be striving to be the best that you can. Let%u2019s see, his name is not going to come to me. [Pause] One of these rap singers, I believe he is. He%u2019s got a program that%u2019s on, kind of showcasing he and his family. Do you know who I%u2019m talking about?
JS: Is it Diddy? Showcasing him and his family?
WW: Yeah, I think it%u2019s kind of a series now.
JS: What channel is it on?
WW: I don%u2019t know. I just saw a piece of it. I was at Ola%u2019s back here. It%u2019s been over a month, a couple of months ago now almost, but I saw a segment on that. I%u2019ll try and find out that name because I told the congregation about it. The segment that I saw, his son is wanting to play football, but he%u2019s not giving his best. The father is talking to him about football and his education, and he%u2019s telling his son that he didn%u2019t get to do, but he%u2019s wanting his son to do. The thing I say is, %u201CWell, I want to whack him one time,%u201D because as young as that guy is, he can go back to school, and if he don%u2019t want to go back to school, he can pay professors to come. There is no excuse for him not to get whatever he said he wanted to get educational-wise. One of the things that I thought about when I saw him was that he needed to take a second look at Bill Cosby. [Laughter] Later in his life, you know, that he went on and he pursued his doctorate. So, there is no reason for us not to always be trying to pursue our best person, the best that we can be, and always trying to learn to improve ourselves and to be a blessing to someone else, that we ought to be trying in whatever ways we can to impact other people%u2019s lives. I think that%u2019s important. I try and encourage the members here that they would do their best and encourage your children. Children need to see that we%u2019re giving our best for them to give their best. We%u2019re their role model. So if you%u2019re not trying to do it, then it%u2019s going to be hard for you to try and tell them to do what they don%u2019t see you trying to do. There are so many opportunities. We have folk that are afraid of the computer, and I say, %u201CYou shouldn%u2019t be afraid. You need to learn all you can about that computer and how to operate it. If you don%u2019t beat it with a hammer, you can%u2019t hurt it.%u201D
JS: I want to jump back quickly for a moment. You said Rev. Davis was a pastor. He had a profound presence on the church.
WW: Rev. Javis.
JS: Rev. Javis?
WW: Reverend Moses Javis. The church seems to have real fond memories that seemingly brought a certain amount of energy and enthusiasm to the congregation when he became pastor. I%u2019m not sure what all had been going on previous to his coming, but he seemingly stirred them up and they were excited about being Green Bethel, and undoubtedly was able to draw a lot of the young people in. Some of them still have a fair amount of communication--you know, a few folk here. So he must have left Green Bethel somewhere in the sixties, I%u2019d say. Yeah, it had to have been in the sixties, but they still have wonderful, wonderful memories of him and his pastorate. They refer to him as a--his name is Moses--they refer to him as a young Joshua [laughter] that came to the church.
JS: Is he still living or has he passed?
WW: He%u2019s still living. I%u2019m trying to think of the area that he was in, in Florida, but I know that I had received some communication. He retired about two years ago from the church that he had pastored down there. He had done, seemingly, very well there in Florida. He and Dr. Carson, Ralph Logan Carson--. Kenneth Martin sent them. Rev. R.B. Blanton was pastor and he was about to retire. I think they had several folk that they were maybe interviewing or had to come and speak for them. I think they maybe had Rev. Martin to come and do a revival for them. But anyway, Ref. Blanton told them that he thought that Rev. Martin should be their next pastor. They ended up calling Rev. Martin, and then when Rev. Martin left, they called Rev. Dr. Ralph Logan Carson, a professor here at Gardner-Webb, of Old Testament Studies. So they had been familiar with him because he had taught through our association, done training through the Ebony Association, and I guess there are a lot of other times they had encountered him.
JS: Is Dr. Ralph Logan Carson, is he still in the area?
WW: He is at Wake Forest.
JS: He%u2019s at Wake Forest.
WW: He%u2019s at Wake Forest, so he%u2019s in the Divinity School there. Do you know of him at all? Okay, he%u2019s a blind professor and teacher. He%u2019s actually [pause]--Rutherford County, I believe is actually where he was born. He had rough early years in life because of his blindness and his desire to pursue the pastorate and to be in religious studies. He had some hurdles to overcome, but he has done very, very well. We%u2019re thankful to the Lord. He actually taught me Old Testament Studies at Gardner-Webb. Yeah, sure did. He%u2019s a very, very sharp individual.
JS: There%u2019s another thing that I%u2019ve noticed when I was pulling up. One side of the street is Green; the other side is Bethel. So there%u2019s Green Street to the left, and then Bethel Street on the right when I was coming up. So, why is that not all , you know, not one street Green Bethel or you know, but you%u2019ve got it on both sides?
WW: Now I%u2019m not sure what caused the city to--.
JS: I thought that was interesting.
WW: Yeah, I%u2019m not sure what caused them to do that. In fact, I had never thought in terms of trying to investigate at what point they would have done that.
JS: I wasn%u2019t sure if the church owned part of the other side.
WW: No, no, never did.
JS: Or if it made it easier for people to find?
WW: Uh-huh, yeah. Well, it sure hadn%u2019t helped thought. There%u2019s a lot of folk out there that have passed right by here. I%u2019ve had people--I%u2019d be talking to them on the phone--they%u2019d turn there at that red light. I%u2019d say, %u201CYou just come down four blocks and turn on Bethel Avenue, and the bank is sitting right there,%u201D and they will go on by it. They will be way on down the road and I can%u2019t understand. I say, %u201CIf you see that bank,%u201D and I always tell people, I say, %u201CWell, don%u2019t go by. If you pass the CVS and Ingles grocery, then you know you%u2019ve passed the church.%u201D Some folk have a problem following directions. [Laughter] JS: Are there other predominantly black churches in Boiling Springs?
WW: Green Bethel is the only black church in Boiling Springs. The nearest church to us, a black church, is Maple Springs. A lot of the folk in these two churches are family.
JS: Okay.
WW: Yeah, they are related. You know, everybody in this area--formerly, they were farmers, sharecroppers, that kind of thing, so there were these two churches that--I guess Maple Springs is four, almost five miles away from us. Then, in Mooresboro is the next black congregation, Mundy%u2019s Chapel, the United Methodist Church.
JS: Okay.
WW: We try to impact and are trying, more so than in previous years, have an impact upon the students at Gardner-Webb. You know that most young folk, when they go off to college, church just kind of drops off their radar [laughter] screen. But, we%u2019ve been doing, the last couple of years--it%u2019s getting better, better and better. We%u2019re seeing more of the young folks from Gardner-Webb coming and sharing in worship, and we%u2019re grateful to the Lord for that. We%u2019re going to try and be geared even better for this next school year that we will have some more things in place as far as trying to really tap into them and letting them know that they have some support here, some folk that will love them and be concerned about them.
JS: So when you say more things, you mean more publicity type of things?
WW: We%u2019re going to publicize with them more and also try and look at some other ways of gaining their interest in sharing here at Green Bethel, and inviting and encouraging them that they can come while they%u2019re here. They can worship here under watchcare and share in the choir, Sunday School, whatever. We want them to feel that they can be at home away from home. This is their home away from home. We%u2019d be happy to have their involvement and their observations. I like to know what other folk see when they see us. I think that it%u2019s important that the church not become complacent and recognize that it%u2019s supposed to be one of the old hymns, the old metered hymns that they used to raise that speaks in terms of to serve this present age, my calling to fulfill. I think that far too often, our churches become complacent. They like things, you know, we%u2019ve been doing things like this. My dad and a lot of older preachers used to tell me if you don%u2019t hear no crying babies, you better leave that church. The thing that will cause you to stop hearing crying babies is that we get to the point to where we want everything to stay the same, so that you%u2019ve got fresh water, it has to keep flowing freely. So you need what other folk are seeing and what they perceive when they come and share with you. That%u2019s the way to grow. [Laughter] JS: Watchcare, what is that exactly?
WW: That%u2019s a term that%u2019s used in a lot of churches. If you%u2019ve got someone that is away from their regular church home and they%u2019re just going to be in an area for a period of time but it%u2019s not going to be permanent, then you can receive them under watchcare so that they%u2019re allowed to share and participate in all of the activities of the church. The only barrier is that that person would not be able to hold an office because they are not going to be permanent, but they can work as a member, basically, under watchcare.
JS: Okay. I%u2019m going to check the time on the recorder and just make sure it%u2019s still recording. All right. Well, you%u2019ve pretty much answered all the questions that I had, but do you have anything else that you think might be helpful for us to know? I would like to get in touch with Margaret Mitchell because she was the first high school graduate of Green Bethel School. [For approximately the next minute, Rev. Wade is giving information on how to communicate with Mrs. Mitchell] Thank you so much.
WW: You are quite welcome.

END OF INTERVIEW
Mike Hamrick, July 2nd, 2010