THOMAS "BUNNY" CLYDE AND CECIL PATLOW

TRANSCRIPT %u2013 BUNNY CLYDE AND CECIL PARTLOW
[Compiled July 25th, 2009]

Interviewees: THOMAS %u201CBUNNY%u201D CLYDE AND CECIL PARTLOW

Interviewer: Tommy Forney

Interview Date: August 27th, 2008

Location: Shelby, North Carolina at the Shelby City Park

Length: Approximately 82 minutes

INTRODUCTION: This interview was recorded on two separate tracks. Transcription of the second, shorter track (approximately four minutes) is at the end of this document.

TOMMY FORNEY: I%u2019m going to start this and I want to say that--what%u2019s today? August the 27th and I%u2019m Tommy Forney. If y%u2019all will tell your names and--your full names and when you were born, Cecil, I%u2019ll start with you since you and I are kind of doing this interview.
CECIL PARTLOW: Okay. My full name is Cecil Partlow and I was born 4-18-55 in Cleveland County.
TF: All right.
BUNNY CLYDE: My name is Thomas %u201CBunny%u201D Clyde. I was born in Gaffney, South Carolina 2-12-44. Then they relocated to North Carolina, so I%u2019ve been here ever since.
TF: About when was that? How old were you?
BC: When I come to Shelby, I should have been about six years old. Ms. Millsap was my first-grade teacher, so she allowed my grandmother to leave me there at school with her while she go to work, and that%u2019s how I got to get in school at the age of five. I started the first grade at Camp High School. That%u2019s considered Shoal Creek.
TF: Tell me about your parents and grandparents a little bit, if you can.
BC: The majority of my rearing--my grandparents, Ernest and Cora Clyde. Like I say, I was down in Shoal Creek and went to school at Camp High School--first grade. After that, we moved to Shelby and I started attending Cleveland School in the second grade. So, from that point, I was just a kid doing what little kids do. I got up to about the seventh grade, I would say. Mr. Earl Jones and I became friends. He was the musical director there at Cleveland School. Along the way, before I got with Mr. Earl Jones, I was associated with the Harper brothers, Mr. Ray Harper, Joe Harper, and Haywood Harper. They all lived there on Weathers Street and I stayed down on White Street at the time.
TF: Now, when you say %u201CHopper%u201D brothers, there%u2019s also a name %u201CHarper.%u201D Now, that%u2019s two different names? Is Ray%u2026?
BC: Ray Harper. H-A-R-P-E-R, as far as I know...
TF: %u2026Yeah%u2026
BC: %u2026and Joe Harper and Haywood Harper.
TF: And that%u2019s who you%u2019re talking about?
BC: There were all brothers%u2026
TF: %u2026Okay, %u2018cause we%u2019re going to interview Ray, probably next week. He%u2019s on our list. And what were they all involved in? Was that music that y%u2019all were doing?
BC: Yeah, at that juncture, Ray would always play out in the field, around different cities, so he started teaching me songs more so than music. So, I really kind of got my musical background from Mr. Earl Jones at Cleveland School. Like I said, Mr. Harper and I--he was attending A&T University and he and some of his other classmates there at the college--they all were upper level musicians, and so they started teaching me. I was not able to attend school at the time, but having products around me from the university, I still--you know, and they were all scholars. They were all music scholars, so I learned quite a bit from being around them.
TF: Was there an age difference or were y%u2019all about the same age?
BC: You know, I don%u2019t--I%u2019m trying to think. We were probably four or five years apart, should have been.
TF: %u2018Cause they were already in school?
BC: They were already in school. At some point I was dealing with--we had a group called the Ambassadors that consisted of two London brothers, Bobby and Billy London, then Leon Byron and Eugene Wilson. We were all attending Cleveland School at the time. Sometimes, on Fridays mostly, we got permission from our parents to be able to go. Mr. Hoskins was principal then, so depending on what kind of mood he was in, we could get out and go perform. We started at that point--different areas, just different things come about. It was a group, a gospel group. I%u2019m trying to think--it was the Williamson brothers, Harold Williamson, Ray Williamson, but I%u2019m getting to that. Pete, James Pete, he had a disability. He walked on crutches. I think he was born with polio, but he was a big influence on my getting into guitar. So was William Cord.
TF: Now, John Reid talks about William Cord. He%u2019s around, isn%u2019t he?
BC: Yeah, he%u2019s over at the--what%u2019s the home?
TF: White Oak Manor?
BC: Come down%u2026
CP: Morgan Street.
BC: Okay. So, he was one of the individuals that influenced me to play guitar--he and James Pete. Bass guitar--I started doing that because Ray Harper and some of the guys--I think they did it down at A&T, but they got a pattern from a Fender bass and they took it to the woodshop, carved it out, put tuning bars on it, and just made a bass. That%u2019s what I used to play.
TF: Yeah.
BC: But I was always around--ninety-five percent of the time, I was around music majors. I was also interested in music myself because I started at an early age. I played trumpet for a while, then Mr. Jones would--if somebody would graduate, he would come up, %u201CYoung man, do you think you can play that instrument?%u201D He was instrumental in my being diverse, as far as instruments, and understanding both clefs, the bass clef and treble clef. Mr. Jones, he was instrumental in doing that. Had he not allowed me to move into certain positions, I might not would have known that. So, that%u2019s how I played trumpet, played bass horn, then I ended up playing saxophone in the band, just depending on who was leaving the band. Like I say, I was in about the seventh grade, so being around with him, that allowed me to get into these other instruments. So, until today I can sit down and compose on all instruments. So, I%u2019m trying to get a CD out here. I%u2019ve been having a little rough time getting it out, but I%u2019m a fighter, so I%u2019ll keep trying %u2018til I get it out here.
TF: Wayne was telling me that you had a group at one time that--did you go to North Carolina Central or have a group from Central?
BC: Yes, but before that time I left here and moved to Charlotte. I lived in Charlotte maybe six or seven years. There were some major groups at the time. One was the Delacardos--was a group that I played with.
TF: Say that again.
BC: Delacardos.
TF: How do you spell that?
BC: Probably D-E-L-A-C-A-R-D-O or C-O-R-D-O, D-A, one of them.
TF: Okay.
BC: Then it was another group, the Vandells out of Charlotte.
TF: These were bands that you joined and played with?
BC: Um-hmm, in Charlotte at the time. Then, a guy named Chris Harris--he was the lead vocalist for one of the groups, but he kind of went out on his own. That%u2019s probably the first time that I had dealt with a major recording label, which was the Atlantic label. We had recorded a song called %u201CThe Rifleman.%u201D Now, with the Vandells we recorded a song also. Back in the day, they didn%u2019t like the title, but it was %u201CFeelin%u2019 Freaky.%u201D [Laughed]. I guess at that time they were censoring more material that come across the air at the time.
TF: Yeah.
BC: So, just the name, %u201CFeelin%u2019 Freaky,%u201D it bothered them a little, but it played quite a bit on--it was a black radio station in Charlotte called WGIV.
TF: Yeah, it%u2019s still around, I believe.
BC: Okay. Then, from that point, from playing with those groups, like I said--Ambassadors, Vandells, Delacardos, I played with George Bishop and the Majors a little while. I played with them maybe about a year. They were from Greensboro. The Ambassadors--we were booked by Hit Attractions out of Charlotte--Ted Hall. So, we were up at Princeton University. Wilson Pickett offered me a job on the spot. Buddy Miles was around, and if I%u2019m not mistaken, I think he had Jimi Hendrix playing with him at the time. That morning, it was homecoming. I used to be a pretty good athlete also.
TF: That%u2019s what Wayne said.
CP: I was going to bring that out, that in his early history, one of the things you might want to talk about is your--the athletic side.
BC: In fact, I reached the status of number one receiver in the state of North Carolina. I was a Shrine Bowl nominee. Referring back to the Princeton experience, Bill Bradley and I played basketball from about eight-thirty to twelve. Senator Bradley played with the New York Knicks for a while. Then--you know he%u2019s a senator now, but I haven%u2019t been able to run into him at all. So, we did that. It was another guy out of Huntsville, Alabama named Jimmy Hughes. He had a hit going at the time, called %u201CSteal Away.%u201D
TF: I remember that.
BC: We did a show with Jimi Hendrix in [ ], Tennessee. Then I saw Hendrix again. I%u2019m thinking he was there in Princeton with Buddy Miles. Also, Martha Reeves and the Vandellas was on that show, the Contours, like I say, Wilson Pickett. But, that was during that time. I also played basketball. In fact, when I was All-American, the guy around here named J.C. Cole was quarterbacking at the time. So, we had a pretty good connection at that point.
TF: Were those bands in those days you%u2019re talking about--were you mainly playing a certain instrument? Were you playing saxophone or more than one instrument?
BC: With the Vandells, I played keyboards and guitar in that band, no horn at all. With the Delacardos, I only played bass, no horn at all, just bass guitar.
TF: Were you playing that homemade bass?
BC: Not then [all laughed]. I had graduated a little then. A little money was being made, but I couldn%u2019t afford to get an instrument. Before I owned a saxophone, I might have been thirty-three before I owned a saxophone. A lot of the guys at the school used to let me borrow their horns in the afternoon. Like I said, we were poor. I couldn%u2019t hardly get fifty cents from my people. So, a lot of the guys would, %u201CHey, man, take it, and you better take care of it.%u201D Then at some point, me and Mr. Hawke, the janitor, we would--in the afternoon I%u2019d finish everything. I said, %u201CMr. Hawke, I need to borrow the horn %u2018til in the morning.%u201D He%u2019d say, %u201CYou better have it back here at seven o%u2019clock.%u201D So, I would get a horn, go home at night, practice, put a towel down in it. Sometimes Mr. Brooks, Mr. Bass or Mr. Mauney--they were policemen at the time.
TF: Yeah.
BC: So, two o%u2019clock in the morning, they ride by White Street. I%u2019m sitting out there near the front of the road with a towel in my horn [laughed]. They would come by and put the spotlight on me. They know, they knew--they were just coming by to pick at me, shine the light and shake their head. But what I liked about them, when I finally started performing out on a stage, they were some of the first ones that would be there to see me play, so I enjoyed them. They supported me. We played ball at Holly Oak Park a lot. You know Gilmore, John Drew, George Adams--.
TF: That%u2019s Artis Gilmore, when he was at%u2026
BC: %u2026at Gardner-Webb (now Gardner-Webb University in Boiling Springs, North Carolina)%u2026
TF: %u2026Gardner-Webb.
BC: Yeah. Well, we took them to school out there then. Everybody I run back into, they remember Holly Oak Park, %u2018cause we were some of the best athletes in the state also. Everybody might not got a fair shake, got the break, but it was not because we didn%u2019t have the talent. In fact, some of the guys went on--Melvin Phillips went on. Dennis Homesley could have played with the Jets. I don%u2019t know whether the coach told him he needed another year of experience or what, but the New York Jets wanted him to play. Louis Elmore, he went on into--he went to A&T also, but he got off into--I think he%u2019s still working for Shell now. But some of the athletes--Billy London--Billy also played. Billy was a good athlete. Marcus Mauney--Marcus used to train with me in the afternoon. We didn%u2019t have--I%u2019m trying to think--we didn%u2019t have Gatorade then, or did we have Gatorade? How long has Gatorade been out?
TF: Probably not much--. Marcus was in my class, I think.
BC: Okay. He used to come up there. I would train every day from, like, one to four. Then, we had Gatorade and salt tablets to keep minerals and salt in you, %u2018cause if you didn%u2019t you%u2019d look ashy out there running. But, he used to train with me up there. I think he got a shot at--was it the New York Giants? Seems like Marcus got a shot at the Giants, I believe. He and another guy named Forrest Toms, but they were younger than I was, but I would always load the station wagon up with Forrest and just a lot of young guys up under me. I would take them to Winston-Salem, Greensboro--. By our being a 1A school, they weren%u2019t exposed to 3A and 4A schools. I said, %u201COkay,%u201D you know. I knew everybody from playing music, so I would just get about eight or nine guys, pack them in the car, tell their moms, %u201CHey, we%u2019re going out of town.%u201D %u201CThey need any money?%u201D %u201CNo.%u201D They didn%u2019t need no money. We%u2019d just get overnight where we%u2019d go somewhere and play ball for about two, three days. I used to like to do that with them. Two of them come back and told me they appreciated that, Marcus and Forrest Toms. You know, they come back and thanked me for being a big brother to them. %u2018Cause I always like to see people in a direction. In fact, Mr. Flip and Mr. Palmer, Clint Palmer--they would do us like that. We used to have to walk from Carolina Avenue to Holly Oak Park every day. We would have to walk. We would play ball all day and walk back. Then at some point--I don%u2019t know who gave--we finally got a bus that would come through and pick up everybody on Carolina Avenue at the time and go to the park. So, it got better as time progressed. We got a way to get out there and get back.
TF: Who was Mr. Flip?
BC: Flip Castle, he was a Little League coach for baseball, football, so he coached me. Mr. Palmer taught me Senior Lifesaving. I went through the Senior Lifesaving course.
TF: That was in the park out at Holly Oak?
BC: Swimming out at Holly Oak Park, um-hmm. The two guys that taught me to really swim was--Melvin Phillips had a brother--I%u2019m trying to think of his name. I see his face. But, Junior Thompson was one of them, and what%u2019s Melvin%u2019s brother%u2019s name? But they both were Navy frogmen. They could swim. They were both Navy frogmen. So, before we could go down in the fifteen feet and swim, we had to jump off the high diving board. So you know, you%u2019re a kid and you%u2019re looking off the high diving board and it looked pretty high at the time. So, they%u2019d say, %u201CThe only way we%u2019re letting you down there--you%u2019ve got to jump off this board [laughed].%u201D Even though we could swim, still height--I had a thing with height. Well, a lot of them did. %u201CI ain%u2019t jumping off this board.%u201D %u201CGo back up there in the three feet then.%u201D
TF: Yeah, I%u2019m with you on that [all laughed]. Did you ever cross paths with Bobby Bell?
BC: Bobby was a senior when I was a freshman coming in, so we had to play against Bobby, Pink--his brother, Pink Bell. They used to dog us, but they saw we%u2019d put on another jockstrap and deal with it [laughed].
TF: And David Thompson was a little younger than you, wasn%u2019t he a good bit younger?
BC: Yeah, he was younger. He come out to the Holly Oak Park one time and we had the pleasure of playing together. He was about in the eleventh grade then, I think. He was at Crest, and he came out and we played a little bit together. That was about the only encounter with him that I had. There%u2019s another guy I used to come out and play ball with. Then I played--I wish I could find a picture of it--I used to play with the Shelby Sporting Goods, on that team. Probably, for a minute, was the only black on the team. I think after I got there Zeke Peeler came in, but we were the only two black guys at that time playing on the team, and that was Shelby Sporting Goods. But, like I said, Mr. Flip and Mr. Palmer--Mr. Palmer taught us swimming and everything, safety--. Mr. Flip was more into the baseball, football aspect of it. Then later on, me and [ ], we started coaching Little League football and baseball. Then, before I finished school, Mr. Winston, John Winston was there at Cleveland School. I coached high school boys basketball about a year and I used to help Mrs. Hopper coach the girls team.
TF: And that%u2019s while you%u2019re in high school?
BC: That%u2019s while I%u2019m in high school. Yeah, I was in high school with Mr. Winston. I come back and I told him, %u201CI want to finish school.%u201D He said, %u201COkay.%u201D So, I talked to Mr. Hoskins and he gave me his lectures that he gives. %u201CI don%u2019t want to hear about you up there messing with them young girls.%u201D I said, %u201CMy purpose is to finish school. There%u2019s plenty of girls out there if I want to mess with girls.%u201D So, Mrs. Hopper would--I had a .500 record because I beat everybody in the county that had been coaching twenty-five, thirty years. I beat everybody in the county my first year of coaching. So, Mrs. Hopper saw that I knew what I was doing, and she started telling me, %u201CCome over and help me with the girls,%u201D and that%u2019s how she and I got connected. I%u2019m trying to think, when did I come back in to finish? %u201CCause I had left out and went out on the road playing. I was just trying to make some money and went on the road playing at that time. I see this guy%u2019s face out here--he and I used to--he was a good--he was an athlete at Shelby High, and I%u2019m trying to--. Was there a guy out here named Bodie?
TF: Yeah, I%u2019ve heard that name.
BC: Do you know his first name? He was one of Shelby High%u2019s top athletes.
TF: I can find out. I know somebody%u2019s mentioned that not long ago.
BC: Yeah, he was a good athlete.
TF: Yeah.
BC: We got to be friends, you know, nobody cared nothing about no color. Even though it was thick at the time, me and Bodie, maybe a couple of other guys, we didn%u2019t--it was just, %u201CHey, I respect you, you respect me.%u201D We didn%u2019t care nothing about the color then. Even though it existed--we knew it. It was good that everybody had the mindset that you respect me and I%u2019ll respect you, and that%u2019s all you can ask.
TF: Yeah, I think that%u2019s one of the reasons we didn%u2019t have some of the problems they had in some other places, maybe. There was--somehow there was a little bit of that attitude here that maybe didn%u2019t exist everywhere.
BC: Yeah.
TF: What year--do you remember what year you graduated and was it still Cleveland? Was that before the total integration of the high schools?
BC: Yeah, because some of the students had already transferred over there, but Cleveland School still existed.
TF: But not everybody had, yeah.
BC: It was kind of like, I guess, to have an impact because it was still racial divide at the time. So, they picked the most--I guess you would say the highly intelligent ones who had the best grades, because it was like--. It was a movement, so they wanted the movement to look good.
TF: Yeah, I remember being in some of that situation where I grew up in Lawndale at Piedmont School.
BC: Okay.
TF: So, you graduated from high school then, and%u2026
BC: %u2026Well, I had quit and come back.
TF: Yeah.
BC: That%u2019s when I talked to Mr. Hoskins and Mr. Quinn, Mr. Banks, before Mr. Banks went up to Pittsburgh. He was there, and Mrs. Raper. Mr. Henry--Mr. Henry was our science teacher. Mr. Quinn was math, Mr. Banks was history.
CP: He%u2019s a principal of Shelby High--Assistant Principal of Shelby High.
BC: I%u2019m trying to think who was teaching typing then. It seems like it was Mrs. Stackhouse. Until this day, I don%u2019t--she was from Gastonia, but I didn%u2019t ever know whether she and the guy that played at UNC, Jerry Stackhouse--I didn%u2019t know whether that was connected or not. But she was from Gastonia, as far as I can recall.
TF: Remind us since it%u2019s been gone so long. Where was Cleveland School?
BC: Where was it?
TF: Where was it, physically?
BC: Same, same spot it%u2019s in now.
TF: Yeah.
BC: Between Weathers and Hudson Street.
TF: Okay.
BC: Um-hmm. In fact, I used to be under Mr. Webber. He used to teach us woodwork over there. In fact, after there was no longer a football team they made that into a workshop downstairs.
TF: Were you playing music at that time or did you just sort of put that on hold while you finished up high school?
BC: I did it all [laughed]. I did it all.
TF: Bands too? High school band and all that?
BC: Yeah. What I had to do when I was in high school--I would go out and play the Star Spangled Banner, everything, march with the marching band, do all the formations, then I was like Clark Kent. I had to get out of there and go to re-suit--go suit up and come out there and bang heads [laughed]. But, I enjoyed that too. I enjoyed football. I don%u2019t know, it%u2019s just something to get a kick out of.
TF: There%u2019s probably not too much of that these days where they do band and play.
BC: You know, the only few guys I know--what%u2019s-his-name did it in college. You know, John Lucas played tennis and basketball at Maryland, as far as college. I don%u2019t know what%u2019s happening in high school now. Probably got some athletes that can do that. If it was more going on, I%u2019d probably have been trying it too. I was just--I didn%u2019t put no limits on myself.
TF: Well, let%u2019s see, where do we need to go next? At some point, now you%u2019ve been working in and out of Detroit? Is that right?
BC: Yeah, Detroit. Before I got to Detroit, I was in Dallas, Texas working with Johnny Taylor. Then, I worked out of Florence, Alabama with Jimmy Hughes. I went up to New York, %u201964, I%u2019m thinking. That was %u201964. When I got to Texas, that was after I had come back out of New York. Played at Small%u2019s Paradise, see George Benson all the time, Wilt Chamberlain. We backed up Kim Wesson, Gladys Knight and the Pips. Who else? I%u2019m trying to think. It%u2019s been back so long.
TF: Who else from this area did you end up playing with here and there, or maybe just here that you played in some of the--before you went out further? What other musicians from Shelby or Cleveland County?
BC: I%u2019m trying to think what group that--you remember Don Camp?
TF: Um-hmm.
BC: Don, Butch Mitchell, what%u2019s-his-name out there now? I think, Hatchet. Molly Hatchet.
TF: George Hatcher?
BC: George, I think he%u2019s from around here somewhere.
TF: Yeah.
BC: Yeah, he%u2019s--. Yeah. But, before--I think he%u2019s a big boy now.
TF: He was in England for a while, based out of England.
BC: Okay, yeah. I think he was from Fallston or here, somewhere close around.
TF: Here, yeah.
BC: Him and--they had the group called--oh, what was that name?
TF: Did you ever play with Richard Putnam?
BC: Yeah, Richard was in the band. Richard, Don, Butch Mitchell, a Guest--what%u2019s his name?
CP: I know who you%u2019re thinking about, Bryan.
BC: Bryan, yeah.
CP: Bryan Guest.
BC: Talked a lot. Still do, probably [laughed]. Good guy, though. Bryan, yeah, he was a good guy. Was it the Constellations? That was the name of the group.
TF: Okay.
BC: I don%u2019t know, maybe I have done a job with them. A few, not--we always were rivalries. They had their band and we had ours.
TF: Yeah.
BC: The Ambassadors probably pushed a lot of musicians to come out and get units together, because we were very competitive.
TF: What about--I was wondering if you ever ran into George Clinton around the Charlotte area?
BC: Just did a show with George before I come back down here. Was it last November? Last November--I can%u2019t think of the name of the place. The way it happened was on of those type things. One of the guys with the Dramatics--they were giving him an award, so he was invited over to do that. Then he said he didn%u2019t want to do it unless we played behind him. We didn%u2019t know George was going to be there, so when we got there George was there. George had hired me to play back in--when was I over at Junie%u2019s? George Clinton and Junie Morrison--they were good friends. That%u2019s how I got to connect with George, but I never did catch up. I never did do the job. Later on, Maceo and Fred Wesley, they all hooked up with George.
CP: Junie Morrison, just for a note, he was one of the writers and musicians for the Ohio Players.
BC: The Ohio Players, yeah.
CP: He wrote a lot of songs for the Ohio Players that were some of their major hits, I think.
TF: And Junie was from here?
BC: Junie was from Dayton, Ohio.
TF: Dayton, Ohio.
BC: Um-hmm. So then, when the Ohio Players broke up, then Junie and some of the other musicians and some of the girls put a group together. I had a group in Detroit called %u201CChain Nine%u201D at the time, so when I met Junie--he come in the establishment where we used to rehearse all the time. Well, we played there too. He said he was looking for a unit to go out and work with him, so that%u2019s how he and I connected. That%u2019s how I met Earl Klugh. Earl Klugh and Junie are good friends. Earl Klugh used to be rhythm guitarist for George Benson.
TF: He%u2019s pretty good in his own right, isn%u2019t he?
BC: Yeah. He told me when he come off the road, he said, %u201CMan, I ain%u2019t made nothin%u2019 but a dollar while I was out there.%u201D He said, %u201CI hate I didn%u2019t make any money, but what I%u2019ve learned from it.%u201D Now he%u2019s a multi [laughed]--. One of the nicest guys you%u2019d ever want to meet, Earl Klugh.
TF: Uh-huh.
BC: Yeah, real nice guy. A lot of guys that I have run into, they were, because I%u2019m no nonsense, so I don%u2019t put up with a lot of crazy stuff. You know, entertainment, you see a lot. It%u2019s a lot out there, and even if you%u2019re not in entertainment, it%u2019s a lot out there. Just more so just because they think you%u2019re in entertainment that you should be doing this, you should be doing that. But, not so. Got a lot of guys out there that take the business serious, take their gift serious, and they don%u2019t get into a lot of stupid stuff. One of the guys I stayed with in [ ] Dallas, Texas was Johnny Taylor. He%u2019s a--I wouldn%u2019t say he%u2019s a black blues artist, but Johnny would come under, I guess, modern soul. I don%u2019t title it, I don%u2019t know. Music is music to me.
TF: I%u2019ve known that name a long time. Right now, I couldn%u2019t tell you why I know his name, but--.
CP: %u201CWho%u2019s making [he sang]?%u201D That wasn%u2019t Johnny, was it?
BC: Yeah.
CP: [Sang again]. That was Johnny Taylor. Then %u201CDisco Lady,%u201D that was a big hit.
TF: Yeah, sure was. Both of those. You know where I remember hearing that song was at the fair. For some reason, they had that Himalaya ride and they would play that song over and over.
CP: Which one? %u201CDisco Lady?%u201D
BC: %u201CDisco Lady.%u201D
TF: %u201CDisco Lady.%u201D
CP: Okay. That%u2019s Johnny Taylor.
BC: Then, the guy that played with Stevie, most of all the sax that was done--a guy named Hank Redd, we were roommates down in Dallas, playing with Johnny Taylor at the time. I didn%u2019t go--well, he told me when we got ready to go, he said, %u201CI don%u2019t want you to go in the direction I%u2019m going.%u201D He said, %u201CIf we go in the same direction, you%u2019re going to get the job.%u201D But it just happened I was not interested in going in the direction he went, so he ended up being Stevie Wonder%u2019s sax player. In fact, I talked to him yesterday. So, he%u2019s doing okay. He%u2019s doing okay.
TF: That%u2019s Hank Redd?
BC: Hank Redd, yeah. Like I said, Junior Morrison with the Ohio Players, I used to hang with. Ah, probably some more I can%u2019t think of.
TF: Back to Shelby a minute--a fellow you said you knew a long time ago and I knew him here at the park, Slim--Ernest Kennedy.
BC: Oh, Ernest Kennedy. That%u2019s Ray, Joe, and Haywood%u2019s uncle, Ernest Kennedy. We called him %u201CSlim.%u201D
TF: He put on shows and sort of helped some bands out, didn%u2019t he?
BC: I think he was not as fluent as Mr. Cabiness. Mr. Cabiness was the promoter. Slim probably gave a few--yeah, Slim did because we have--Slim has put on a few shows at that old Park Center, out there in a little building that%u2019s still there.
TF: Yes, it%u2019s what they call the %u201COld Center.%u201D
BC: So, you know, he did a few shows in there, but most of the time it was Mr. Cabiness doing the shows.
TF: What were some of those big shows out at the Holly Oak? What was that like? What kind of bands? Some of it was kind of gospel, wasn%u2019t it, that they did there?
BC: Now, you know, yeah. And during that time, too, I don%u2019t know whether Mr. Cabiness brought Maurice Williams and the Zodiacs out there. I got to play with Joe Tex one night out there. Joe Tex goes way back. Do you recall Joe Tex?
TF: Oh yeah.
BC: Okay. Something about the %u201CBig Fat Woman,%u201D Joe did. But what happened, how I got that%u2026
TF: %u2026It wasn%u2019t %u201CSkinny Legs and All,%u201D was it?
CP: Yeah, %u201CSkinny legs and All.%u201D
BC: Yeah. He was on the way to play and had an accident. All of the horn players got a little banged up, so Mr. Cabiness had somebody to call me and said Joe Tex needed a tenor player. So, I got to work with him that night, but after that he told me, %u201CIf there%u2019s any way I can ever help you do anything, you let me know.%u201D Then later on, something happened to him. So, that%u2019s how that was. King Curtis, you remember King Curtis had %u201CSoul Serenade?%u201D
TF: %u201CSoul Serenade.%u201D
BC: Okay. I used to see him every day. I was about--I was sixteen. I was in New York at the time. I was about sixteen, but I used to see him, George Benson, Wilt Chamberlain. We backed up Gladys Knight and the Pips at a place called Small%u2019s Paradise. It was back in %u201964, I guess. King Curtis played with--used to do a lot of stuff on Aretha Franklin%u2019s albums. Him, Billy Preston, Jerry Germont, Cornell DuPree, Bernard Perry--.
TF: What about Duane Allman?
BC: You know, I don%u2019t recall running into him.
TF: I think he played on some of Aretha%u2019s stuff about that time. He was into King Curtis.
BC: Like I say, this was around %u201964, around in there. I had left here--but the guy at the club--he had to fingerprint me %u2018cause I was underage to be playing in clubs in New York. I was sixteen, but I was always pretty big for my age, and the guy had been checking me out. He said, %u201CI%u2019ll be your guardian. You look pretty cool.%u201D He took me downtown and got me fingerprinted so I could play around New York, but I was only sixteen then.
CP: You mentioned Ray Cabiness. I had the privilege to work with Ray a lot. He was kind of one of those father figures, mentors too, like Bunny. He did a lot of the big gospel shows. As a matter of fact, I came in did somebody%u2019s sound work, running sound. They would hire--Carl Dockery, who I worked for at the time, and Carl was saying to me, %u201CSo I can be out there with Shirley Caesar, The Blind Boys, and different gospel groups that came in the city at the time. Some of the other shows that Ray did--he did some shows at the armory that were pretty big at the time.
TF: I was going to ask you about the armory.
CP: Yeah, he did the--he did Kool and the Gang at the armory. That was the first time I had ever seen a monitor. I was up on stage--I said, %u201CWhat%u2019s that?%u201D %u201CThat%u2019s a monitor. You got to check this out.%u201D And I had the privilege to run into Kool and the Gang on several occasions. Even we, when we played in the band, ran into Kool and the Gang down in Savannah. But I had run into Kool and the Gang during my course of time because I was an avid Robert Bell fan. You know, that was one of my early groups that I really liked the way they played music. What I didn%u2019t know at the time, and everybody picked at me later was that they were dubbing bass lines. Well, I didn%u2019t know that. So, I was trying to play all of them, and was doing it [laughed]. There were two or three bass lines, and I%u2019m playing all three lines on one bass, live, you know. So that was real interesting there.
BC: And he booked Little Richard. Mr. Cabiness had booked Little Richard. He did Joe Tex at the armory too.
TF: Little Richard here at the armory?
BC: Yeah, he had--it was called %u201CLittle Richard and the Upsetters.%u201D Yeah, had the band called the Upsetters.
TF: That sounds familiar. When would that have been? Late sixties, mid-sixties?
BC: I was trying to peep in the doors and sneak around [all laughed]. But, I would always know--he would say, %u201CI%u2019m bringing so-and-so to town.%u201D At some of those points I was not playing. I was just a little kid, sneaking around, trying to see how I could get in and watch the guys play.
TF: Were those shows then segregated, they were integrated, or was it a little bit of both?
BC: You know, I think whoever wanted to come could have. It was just that that was the time and the atmosphere was like it was. I%u2019m pretty sure whoever wanted to come could have.
TF: My mother tells about in Durham--she remembers when blacks had to sit in the balcony for certain shows, but she also went to black shows where the whites sat in the balcony.
BC: Okay.
TF: If it was a major show that%u2026
BC: %u2026Yeah. Now I never did experience that.
TF: Yeah.
BC: I remember we had to sit in the Webb Theater. I know I used to get up in the morning and come out here, get me two bags, get me two caddy bags. I%u2019d want to catch that early round, so I would catch the guys teeing off early in the morning.
TF: Here at the City Park?
BC: Yeah. Get me somebody and make them eighteen holes. You know, then, popsicles was a nickel; popcorn was a dime. You got a bag that long, you know. Lotta-Colas, you remember those Lotta-Colas?
TF: Yeah.
BC: They were about like that.
CP: It was sixteen ounces or better.
BC: Yeah [laughed]. Baby Ruths was thick as--oh, man they was ten cents.
TF: They [ ] because we were smaller then too.
CP: That was before pre-shrinking.
BC: And I would go up there and sit in the movie. We had to go up in the balcony there.
TF: Any other theaters in town that you remember because back past the Webb, you%u2019ve got to go--.
BC: The Rogers.
TF: Yeah, but I mean--and Rogers, of course, I know from growing up. And the State (Theater). But, do you remember anything like the Carolina or the Princess?
BC: Yeah, but I%u2019m trying to think--I don%u2019t why I didn%u2019t gravitate over there. I didn%u2019t hardly go to the Carolina. It was right there near the police station.
CP: That%u2019s the Flick. It became the Flick, didn%u2019t it?
TF: That was the State Theater.
CP: That was the State Theater?
BC: Oh, maybe that%u2019s what I%u2019m thinking about, the State Theater.
TF: Yeah, yeah.
BC: Where was the Carolina Theater? Oh, no we had Carolina Theater right there on the corner of Buffalo and Weathers Street.
CP: That%u2019s what that was?
BC: Yeah.
CP: We called it the Washington in town.
BC: Okay, okay.
CP: The Washington Theater at the end.
TF: Yeah, Washington. Well, I%u2019m not sure I%u2019ve got the names right, but there was a theater in the area where the downtown mall is. You know where Steak %u2018n Hoagie is and back up this way a little bit, there was a theater there.
CP: The license plate place is what you%u2019re saying now? Is that the downtown mall you%u2019re talking about?
TF: No, over on Lafayette Street between the Shelby Caf? and the Steak %u2018n Hoagie.
CP: Okay, I didn%u2019t know about that one.
TF: And I think there was even one on the other side where Hudson%u2019s is, way back.
BC: That might have been just the Washington Theater.
CP: That was back when the Woolworth%u2019s was there.
TF: Yeah. But the Washington, I know--that building is still there. That%u2019s kind of a Quonset hut, tin roof. That was kind of the answer, somebody said, to the balcony situation that was meant as a black theater.
BC: Whoever set it up, they made money for a period of time there.
CP: Yeah, I never saw it as a theater. When I saw it, I knew the projectors had been in there. I think Louis Dillingham opened up a club there, and he had bands coming there and doing shows. A lot of shows, and the local acts were brought in there.
BC: There was a guy named Wes that used to run it. I don%u2019t know who owned it, but this guy named Wes used to run the projectors all the time. He was good, he was good.
TF: That was at the Washington?
BC: And I%u2019m trying to think who else?
TF: What other hangouts were there in those days where people liked to go for a soda hangout or a drugstore that you remember?
BC: Most of the time, most of us%u2026
TF: %u2026Juke box. Where was the jukebox?
BC: We were playing quite a bit, I mean, even then. They had some places on Carolina Avenue, about at one time, maybe five places they had around there. I know Louis Dillingham had the Aquarius, then there were some more clubs but I can%u2019t even think of the name of them now.
TF: The Aquarius. That rings a bell. Where was that?
CP: That was right there on Carolina Avenue in the corner right there near the%u2026
BC: %u2026Orange and--or was that Oak Street?
CP: both, yeah, Oak and Orange Street all are right there, but you--was it Mt. Calvary, right there where Mt. Calvary Church is, and you go around the curve and it%u2019s sitting right there on the right. I think it%u2019s a church now. I%u2019ve always noticed that we always said that most churches--clubs become churches at some point. You know, if they stay in business long enough and they finally go under, then the next thing you see is that the club becomes a church.
TF: You know, that%u2019s true. I%u2019m thinking of one right now, the place they built called the %u201CCountry Coliseum.%u201D Do you remember when they built the Country Coliseum?
CP: Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, they called it %u201CThe Flying Saucer%u201D for a while.
TF: Yeah, because it looked like that.
BC: The Country Coliseum. Was I around?
CP: No, this is%u2026
TF: %u2026Late seventies, mid-seventies.
CP: Yeah.
TF: It%u2019s now a church. Of course, it burned and they built a new building there at that spot.
CP: Yes, okay.
TF: Let%u2019s see, what kind of projects you got going on now, Bunny?
BC: Trying to get a CD out here. Trying to find some financial backer that would help us out.
TF: Is that a particular group or are you putting things together for the songs that you%u2019re doing?
BC: A composition that I had put together. Then, we%u2019re going to work on a CD for him.
CP: And I think the other thing is that the album--what%u2019s been unique about it and everybody loves the name is that--the name of the album is White Street. He and I performed last year at the Summer Soul Music Festival as %u201CCecil P. and the White Street Band featuring Bunny Clyde%u201D and, %u201CWhite Street--well, where did that come from?%u201D We both grew up on White Street here in Shelby, which is behind the Walgreen%u2019s. It%u2019s gone now, but there was a lot of roots there. I%u2019m beginning to see that more and more people at the time, although we were de-segregated, it seems like the moral value of our parents and our grandparents were that if you did bad here at my house and you went up the street, the neighbor would just go ahead and whup you too. You know, now corporal punishment is not considered permissible, but for our age in the time that we were growing up, all our neighbors cared about what we did and they knew that they wanted to raise us to a higher standard. So, the White Street became really synonymous to both of us as a place where we had the ability to raise the children. White Street is also one of the number one streets in the city of Shelby that a lot of--the majority of professional blacks came from. We%u2019ve got doctors; we%u2019ve got lawyers that came off White Street, which was--a lot of people thought it was unheard of because of, you know, we were the lower income. We were technically--shouldn%u2019t amount to become anything, but in the scheme of life and because of those true values that our parents had given us, and didn%u2019t take--there wasn%u2019t no %u201Cmaybe.%u201D You knew right from wrong, and if you went out and ventured and did things wrong, not only would your parents come down on you, but your neighbors would come down on you, then tell your parents and you%u2019d get another whipping. Then you knew that, %u201CHey, that%u2019s not what I want to do any more.%u201D So, that is the uniqueness of White Street and having this album named White Street. It%u2019s just time right now, I think for the great musician and friend I%u2019ve got here who%u2019s been a mentor for me and a lot of people to have a project of his own because he%u2019s added so much throughout the world for everybody else. A friend of mine said something to me the other day, said, %u201CMan, he%u2019s famous,%u201D and I thought about it and I said, %u201CWell, yeah he is. He won%u2019t say it and musicians all over the nation know him, and he probably could be really, really famous, but the one thing that goes back to White Street is that because that he didn%u2019t sell out, because you can sell out now and you get instant fame. But, he didn%u2019t sell out and that%u2019s been the big thing and this album is a great representation of his musical skills, his ability to write and arrange. I%u2019d say ninety-seven percent of this album is Bunny playing and performing and arranging. So, it kind of takes a lot of the %u201Cif%u201D factors. If you want to say, %u201CWho%u2019s playing the guitar?%u201D %u201CBunny.%u201D
%u201CWho%u2019s playing the keyboards?%u201D %u201CBunny.%u201D %u201CWho%u2019s playing the sax?%u201D %u201CBunny.%u201D %u201CWho did the arrangement?%u201D %u201CBunny.%u201D Wow, and that%u2019s been the general attitude of everybody that%u2019s heard the album, so we%u2019re really interested in doing it. By not being a sellout and by not taking the easy way out, which is so often done now in the industry, it%u2019s made it a little more difficult, but I think at the end of all this the rewards will be that much better because we knew what it took to stand the test of time to make this album come to fruition without just doing what he do, you know, that he does really well. So, I%u2019m looking forward to it actually being released. We%u2019ve got people that want it, but we%u2019re very methodical in making sure that we do it the right way, although it may be the long way but it%u2019s the right way.
BC: In fact, all the music you were hearing at the show was coming out of the board. I had programmed it. That%u2019s what you were hearing.
CP: So it wasn%u2019t like something that he bought or--he was actually--I%u2019ve watched him do that. That is a unique perspective because the technology now is a lot simpler. There are new tools that we like to have that would make our job easier but the beauty of it is, if you know how to really build the pyramid, it%u2019s not hard to replicate. So, in watching him take a keyboard and do what he does as far as making this work station become a studio and being able to compose inside of this, and to hear music emulating from the keyboard versus structured chords. You know, a lot of times people can play, but you%u2019re like, %u201CWhat was that? It%u2019s not musical,%u201D but when you hear actual music coming out, that%u2019s great.
BC: Some of my other influences on the saxophone around here, I wouldn%u2019t want to leave them out.
TF: Okay.
BC: Do you remember Leon McDougald? He%u2019s Dr. McDougald now. He%u2019s down at Bennett College. Well, Leon McDougald, Joe Leach, Paul Keaton, Johnny Browning, Monty Pass, well, Ted Pass--. We call him Monty. All those guys were also great influences. They were good sax players.
TF: Where did you mostly cross paths with them, in school?
BC: Yeah, they all went to Cleveland School. They were just--some of them were ahead of me.
TF: Do y%u2019all have Cleveland School reunions or get-togethers?
BC: Supposed to be having one--well, we will be having one this weekend.
TF: It reminds me, we also have reunions for the Flat Rock-Creekside area. Anything you want to say about that big change there because you probably remember a lot about those neighborhoods that are not there any more.
BC: The Flat Rock area--some of the guys I played basketball with in the park league out there, Lloyd [ ], Ronald Bell--I can%u2019t think of Mack%u2019s first name, but Mack, who else? But, I didn%u2019t know a lot about over there, but those guys--we all played basketball and stuff together. I mean, I would go to Flat Rock but I just didn%u2019t--there wasn%u2019t anywhere that I kind of just hung all the time, but I went over there quite a bit. In fact, another guy named--we called him %u201CLee Lee%u201D Washington, he was a good basketball player. I can%u2019t think of Mack%u2019s name. I think Mack went to Shaw, if I%u2019m not mistaken. He went up to St. Augustine or Shaw; one of those schools he went to. I thought maybe that--I think he could have played pro. I just don%u2019t think he pursued it, but he was a good ball player.
TF: Now, did we establish that--did you go to Central?
BC: Yeah, I went to North Carolina Central, maybe about a year-and-a-half or two. I went on a football scholarship. But, I ended up still playing in the band too. I was in the marching band there. I%u2019m trying to think what year that was. I was in and out of so much.
TF: Yeah, yeah. I%u2019m sure it%u2019s hard to keep up with it.
BC: Yeah, yeah.
TF: Wayne was telling me he remembers you bringing a group that went by %u201CNCCS%u201D name, or something.
BC: Uh, %u201CNCCU.%u201D
TF: NCCU.
BC: It was North Carolina Central University. What happened, we took the letters and matched them to the school. We were called %u201CNew Central Connection Unlimited.%u201D That%u2019s what it was, NCCU. It was New Central Connection Unlimited. That was being--now, the producer at that time was Dr. Donald Byrd. He had the Blackbirds at the same time.
TF: Yes, he mentioned that.
BC: Yeah, he was out of--he was teaching at Howard and teaching at North Carolina Central, so he had the group, the Blackbirds. Nobody else from here was playing in the group. Everybody was from different places: Asheville, Durham, Brevard--. I%u2019m trying to think where everybody--Asheville, Brevard, Durham, and I was the only one from Shelby playing. But I was the one that put the group together. I put the group together over here on Frederick Street. In fact, the bass player plays with Cameo now. That%u2019s the bass--Cameo%u2019s bass player. The guitar player--he had some kind of, I don%u2019t know, some kind of physical ailment. I don%u2019t know what it is, but he%u2019s okay. He%u2019s in Asheville.
TF: About when was that?
BC: That was around %u201977, I believe. Yeah, that was around %u201977. In fact, one of the other guys with the Blackbirds--he%u2019s got CD%u2019s out himself. His name is Kevin Toney. Kevin%u2019s out in LA, in the valley, I guess you would--I guess the Fernando valley, maybe. I%u2019m thinking maybe that%u2019s where he%u2019s at. We were recording with United Artists, and Warner Brothers was the publisher and distributor. We signed a major contract with United Artists--United Artists and Warner Brothers at the time.
TF: And that was the NCCU group?
BC: Um-hmm. But, like I said, we started--the three of us, Mills and Duckett and myself--we started the unit here in Shelby and we took it to there. That%u2019s how that happened.
TF: Yeah, I understand what you%u2019re (Cecil Partlow) saying. I think he probably needs something out under his own name. He%u2019s done all these things in support of%u2026
CP: %u2026Everyone%u2026
TF: %u2026and making things happen%u2026
CP: %u2026for everybody else.
TF: Yeah.
CP: For me, I%u2019m just glad to be a part of it at this point, when it%u2019s his time, and that%u2019s where we are.
BC: You know, he%u2019s been a great friend, %u2018cause as long as I%u2019ve been away, he and I have been in touch. I mean, at some point in time about every month--we%u2019re probably talking at least two times a month.
CP: I guess I should give a history on us.
TF: Yeah, I was going to ask you. What are y%u2019all doing together?
CP: I think in 1979, Clyde and I have been--you know, since he%u2019s from here and we had run into each other, played together off and on, done different things--. I think the thing that was--we got an opportunity to--he was playing with a band up and down the East coast called %u201CJames Bates and the Cracker Band.%u201D James Bates--I think they went through some kind of change--he gave me a call and asked me if I%u2019d be interested in playing. This was, like, in 1979. I was disc jockeying in the club at the time. Every once in a while, I%u2019d actually play live with my bass in the club and had done shows where I actually brought my bass live to the set, and got pretty good response %u2018cause I%u2019d been playing for a minute doing different stuff. So, at that time, my opportunity to go on the road for the very first time--. I think it was--for me, it was the zenith of my life at that time because it was doing something I always wanted to do but never had the opportunity to do it. So, when I was on the road, it was just so much fun. Seeing the audience--when I first went out, I actually went out as a sound engineer. At some point, we were playing in Clinton, South Carolina. We had gone and set up, and the--I think the keyboard player quit. When he quit--so, we%u2019ve got this big show. We%u2019re already set up. Everybody%u2019s there at Clinton, and you know we were always real personable with people, so everybody had kind of fell in love with us down there. We had been talking to everybody and everything. We found out that we weren%u2019t going to be able to play, and they realized they couldn%u2019t re-schedule it, so they put--went and got a bass guitar for me. I hadn%u2019t learned the show; he and I had been working on some material while we were on the road. I hadn%u2019t learned the show or anything, so they said, %u201CWell, look, guys, if you guys can put on any kind of set, we%u2019ll be glad--we won%u2019t pay you the whole amount, but we%u2019ll be--.%u201D So, at that point, I%u2019d go downstairs and rehearse, and come back upstairs and play a set. So, we did two sets and they went crazy. I had a cheering section %u2018cause everybody liked the personality and everything. From that point on, I became the bass player for that group for about three-and-a-half years, so he and I lived on the road as my roommate. It%u2019s pretty much as a big brother %u2018cause it was the first time I%u2019d been on the road, so there was a lot of positive instructions, %u201CCecil, you don%u2019t want to do this. Cecil, you don%u2019t want to do that.%u201D So, it was having a big brother and a father figure out there in somebody who had had the experience and had gone and seen other guys make mistakes and was able to be a great mentor for me. So, for three-and-a-half years we went up and down the East coast. I think the best thing about the group was the versatility. We%u2019d start a set off, we%u2019re talking in %u201979, with a Grover Washington tune, jazz--come out of that song and go into like, %u201CRocky Top.%u201D Everybody%u2019s mouth would fly open for a minute. We%u2019d come out of that and go into like, a Lionel Richie song, and come out of that and go into a ZZ Top tune, come out of that and go into a tune like Devo%u2019s %u201CLet it Whip,%u201D then end it with a Rick James song or something. So people were like, %u201CWow, we%u2019ve never seen a band like this,%u201D you know, that versatile. They want you to entertain the audience and be fun, so it was a great experience for me, having the opportunity to work with him and my first experience actually being on the road in the band. I had ran sound for Janice and her band with Reggie Sadler, but that was the first time I had actually been on the road as a musician and performer.
TF: What were you going under as the name?
CP: It was James Bates and the Cracker Band.
TF: James Bates.
CP: Right, yes.
BC: It was %u201CFirecracker,%u201D but we brought some mystique to it. We just decided [everyone laughed], there were two black guys in the group%u2026
TF: %u2026Throw a little doubt on it.
BC: Yeah [laughed]. So, we would go--people would be so--they didn%u2019t know what to expect %u2018til after we did the show. %u201CWho are these guys talking about? Cracker?%u201D This guy here is a renowned organist, Jack McDuff [they looked at pictures].
TF: I%u2019ve seen him.
BC: Betty Joplin has gotten two Grammy nominations. She%u2019s out of Lansing, Michigan. You know who [ ].
TF: Yes.
BC: That%u2019s--remember Dave Winfield? Used to play with the Pittsburgh Pirates and then some other people--.
TF: Yeah.
BC: Okay. So, we were all out in LA and they come through%u2026
TF: %u2026New York too, maybe, didn%u2019t he [spoke of another place Winfield played baseball]?...
BC: %u2026checking out the show. That%u2019s another guitarist there in Detroit, very good guitarist. When George Benson and some of the other prominent guys come in, they look him up. They had called me to play with--that%u2019s the same guy.
TF: Yeah.
BC: This guy here, he played pro ball, Terry Cummings. He played with the Pistons a minute. This guy here started Comcast Cable in Detroit. He started Comcast Cable, so what he did--he and Michael Jackson come to Detroit to do a casino. Archer was the mayor at the time and wouldn%u2019t let them do it, so they was going to take the money back out. Okay, what he did--he invited us out. He went back to Vegas. He owned Fitzgerald casinos, now had just bought three of Donald Trump%u2019s casinos. He, at my last count, was three hundred eighty-seven million, what he was worth. He had us to come out a day before--the Countours, the Marvelettes, %u2018cause he%u2019s from Detroit.
TF: This is the same guy here?
BC: Don Barton.
TF: Don Barton?
BC: Don Barton, um-hmm. Those guys are the Holloway brothers with Atlantic Star, Midnight Star, one of the two.
CP: Atlantic.
BC: Two guys here?
CP: Yeah, Atlantic.
BC: This percussionist plays with Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, Janet Jackson, but I%u2019ve got access. He says, %u201CIf you get into something, give me a call. I%u2019ll be glad to come play for you.%u201D You%u2019ve seen him. He%u2019s crazy on the stage and all. Anthony, what%u2019s his name?
CP: I forget his name too.
BC: But he got a TV--what%u2019s the TV show he was doing?
TF: I don%u2019t watch much TV, but--.
CP: He%u2019s got a lot of major movies he%u2019s on, but I forget his name. Anthony--.
TF: He looks familiar.
BC: Now that%u2019s Kim Fields.
CP: %u201CTootie.%u201D [All laughed].
BC: She wanted to come up and wanted to take a picture with us, wanted to hold the saxophone, so she come up and took a picture with us.
TF: And that%u2019s the rest of the band?
BC: Nice lady. Nice young lady. That%u2019s a friend of mine. Well, the President of Kosovor [sic] had come over to the States, he%u2019s the one that takes care of him.
CP: Protection.
TF: When the President of what?
BC: Kosovor [sic], out of Russia comes over.
TF: Yeah, he looks like he could take care of somebody.
CP: Yeah.
BC: That%u2019s Dr. Dre.
CP: I don%u2019t know if you know who--remember who Dr. Dre is?
TF: Yeah, well.
CP: Dr. Dre is, I mean%u2026
TF: %u2026He%u2019s a rapper in this.
CP: Yeah, but all the stuff that Snoop Dog did and all the big stuff and--.
BC: What%u2019s his name out of Detroit?
TF: He%u2019s a producer?
CP: Yeah, he%u2019s a producer. He was Producer of the Year.
BC: Eminem.
CP: Yeah, he produced Eminem, [ ], 50 Cent, all those guys.
BC: That%u2019s the boxer, %u201CHit Man%u201D Hearns (Thomas Hearns). We took that out in Mandalay Bay out in Vegas. That%u2019s Hit Man Hearns.
TF: Yeah.
CP: One of Sugar%u2019s menaces, wasn%u2019t it? Sugar Ray%u2019s menaces [laughed].
TF: I know him. He%u2019s trim, isn%u2019t he?
BC: Yeah. And you know her.
TF: Is that Mariah?
BC: That%u2019s Mariah Carey. That%u2019s a friend of mine that played with Earth, Wind and Fire. He and Mariah are--I was supposed to have been going on a tour with her. They wanted me to handle the horn section. Two of them go like--some things didn%u2019t get finalized like they should have. It would have been a good job; it was a three-thousand-dollars-a-night job. I could have used that [laughed].
TF: That%u2019s quite a resume you%u2019ve got here. I wish I had time to take all this in.
BC: Yeah, yeah. Those are songs that have been played all over the world.
TF: Uh-huh.
BC: This guy was producing us.
TF: That%u2019s Donald Byrd?
BC: Donald Byrd, yeah. I was with Warner Brothers there. I was staying on--what street was I--? Oh, I was in Asheville then, when they sent me that. They couldn%u2019t find me to pay me some money [laughed].
TF: I see your inspiration--you%u2019ve got--Hank Crawford jumped out at me. I always liked Hank Crawford.
BC: Yeah. Hank played with Ray Charles for years. Hank, David Noonan, Marcus Belgrave--. Another guy--I%u2019ve got his address. I%u2019ve got his number and stuff. The other trumpet player--he did the movie. He did the Ray Charles movie. He%u2019d been playing with Ray twenty or twenty-five years.
TF: Wes Montgomery, Horace Silver--.
BC: Yeah.
TF: It%u2019s a good list.
BC: Yeah. This guy--he%u2019s [ ]. He%u2019s Rosa Parks%u2019 attorney, Johnny Cochran%u2019s attorney, Hit Man Hearns, Mark Macomb, so if I do anything as far as signing up with a record company, that%u2019s who I get to represent me, so I%u2019ve been knowing him a little while.
TF: Gregory Reed.
BC: Yeah, Um-hmm.
TF: What have we got here?
BC: Just short--that%u2019s short. I did a Tom Joyner tour. So, what they do, they give you everything in there--where you%u2019re going, your rooms, your transportation, catering, everything. They hand you that book and they ain%u2019t got to talk to you no more. You better read it.
CP: So, ain%u2019t no more support [all laughed]. We%u2019ve been going about it all wrong on our production.
BC: Nobody%u2019s guessing.
CP: You know what I%u2019m saying? We%u2019ve been following, going around--.
BC: These are shows that have gone on to different acts.
CP: We%u2019re going around following everybody up on our production. By George, I%u2019m going to have to think about that. We might need to make a book too [laughed].
BC: They give you that book, I mean, they give every%u2026
CP: %u2026You%u2019re on your own now...
TF: The Dramatics--was that you?
BC: Yeah, um-hmm.
TF: The Dells.
BC: That was Nashville [ ]. [The sound of pages turning].
TF: Well, I wish you success in all that you%u2019ve got going on with your projects, both of you.
CP: Thanks.
BC: Thank you.
TF: If you think of something else that--you know, we can add on to this sometime if you want to sort of call it a day now, but we appreciate you%u2026
BC: %u2026Well, I forgot that we had, but that%u2019s come from not writing down, and he%u2019s always getting on me about writing. We had some journeys to do today, but you know, appreciate you calling.
TF: I appreciate you working it out to do this.
BC: Yeah, we appreciate that.
CP: Yeah, most definitely. Rarely do we get the opportunity to talk about what we do. Unfortunately, the only thing about it, if you aren%u2019t bringing tragedy or bad news, you very seldom get the opportunity to say or do anything for the most part. I always say that. I%u2019ve been here all my life and I%u2019ve been in entertainment all my life. I%u2019ve been the emcee and host of the Relay for Life for what will be fourteen years next year. We always get rave reviews from everybody out there from doing that event, but you never see anything about me in the papers or anything on the other things that I do. But, you know, my mama always told me of being a good Samaritan. You do the right thing in spite of--you don%u2019t worry about whether your time will come, just keep doing the work [laughed].
TF: Our media is slow to pick up on things like that. Really, if we had better radio media, %u2018cause this would be the kind of thing that somebody, if they were playing good music on the radio and if it was local and live--. I%u2019m talking about not pre-packaged so much like it is so much now. This would make a great show for somebody to do, I think%u2026
CP: %u2026Right%u2026
TF: %u2026on the radio.
BC: Well, I mean it hasn%u2019t been peaches and cream [laughed].
TF: I%u2019m sure that%u2019s true.
CP: Like I say, that%u2019s because when you try to do it right, then you don%u2019t settle for less. I actually played for a truncated version of The Ohio Players for a year-and-a-half, from %u201986 to %u201987. I finally came home after what I considered--I call it baby-sitting grown-ups so to speak. It%u2019s hard when you%u2019ve got to--you know what you%u2019re supposed to do. Do what you%u2019re supposed to do. Don%u2019t do anything that%u2019s going to take away from the bigger picture. I%u2019ve been around from the years of having worked with him and the family structures like, for them, their nickname for me was kind of comical, but I laughed because I figured if that%u2019s the worst you can lob at me as a saying, great. That was %u201CCountry Preacher,%u201D because I would say, %u201CLook guys, just--it%u2019s not going to work %u2018cause you were really--we were cutting our throats if we do this.%u201D %u201CAh, Country Preacher,%u201D but a year later the Country Preacher is right, and now you%u2019re telling me I%u2019m right and I should be elated about that, but we%u2019re a year out of pocket because of this. I%u2019m out here trying to secure me and my family%u2019s future. This is not a joke; this is serious. I didn%u2019t come out here to play; I came out here to%u2026
BC: %u2026To play%u2026
CP: %u2026yeah, to perform [laughed].
BC: Then, he%u2019s opened for some great events over there in Charlotte too, %u2018cause he opened for Boney James. Boney James had the number one smooth jazz CD. He opened for him, and then Dick Gregory. He opened for Dick Gregory, and%u2026
TF: %u2026You%u2019ve got a great show, if I remember. You%u2019ve got a stage presence that%u2019s%u2026
CP: %u2026All right.
TF: You turn it on [laughed].
CP: And we%u2019re just--we%u2019re just getting out there and starting to get back together. So, I always say there%u2019s one kind of time and that%u2019s God%u2019s time. You can%u2019t make nothing happen. We had been talking and we have run into so many people that that%u2019s all they do is talk. For the first time, with his knowledge and background and my knowledge and background--I%u2019ve been blessed to be in electronics over thirty-something years, sound engineer and technician. I%u2019ve been working behind the scenes on major events in Charlotte as technical director and coming out front as host and emcee, and having an opportunity to play and perform. What we%u2019ve got, the two of us, just like you saw us do that show there, can do a whole show and give you the whole sound production and quality in everything. Guess what? We don%u2019t have to call anybody, which nowadays, that%u2019s rough. When you%u2019ve got to call somebody, %u201CMan, can you make it, uh, next time?%u201D [Laughed].
TF: Well, thanks a lot.
END OF FIRST TRACK

BEGINNING OF SECOND TRACK
BC: %u2026trying to learn to do something at that time, but they--we were 105. They had to be 107 White Street, I guess.
TF: That%u2019s Harold? (Harold Williamson, who sang with a group in Shelby)
BC: Um-hmm, but they were practicing at Herman Morrow%u2019s house. They come over to his mom and dad%u2019s house and that%u2019s where they would practice in the afternoon. You know, I%u2019m a little ole kid, and a little, nosey one, at that. But, I%u2019m hungry to learn music. In fact, with them, I learned a lot about vocal harmony because I was sitting and listening to them do it.
TF: They%u2019ve got some great harmony.
BC: You know, you%u2019ve got five guys in there that%u2019s singing, and they could sing then. They were good then. So, that gave me an inside view of what to do with voice arrangements.
TF: You mentioned that Ray, I think, was teaching you songs?
BC: Ray Harper?
TF: Yeah. Now, do you sing or have you sung some along the way, or has it been all--?
BC: I%u2019m going to start. I haven%u2019t been--I%u2019ve got to find my little--my comfortable ranges, and I%u2019m going to start. I have been, but I%u2019m going to start doing more. Hopefully, this old throat will--.
CP: And he can. The thing I think has been unique about Mr. Clyde is that when he played keyboard for some people, they didn%u2019t know he played sax. When he played sax for some people, they didn%u2019t know he played keyboard. When we played in the band together, I guess only less than a month ago, I%u2019m riding in the van and he%u2019s singing. Now we sang background. %u201CClyde, what%u2019s up with all this new singing you%u2019re doing over here? You%u2019re singing lead parts, which he probably could have done at the time. He did do a few songs, but I%u2019m hearing a difference in the tone in what he%u2019s doing, and going, %u201COkay.%u201D Also, on the album there%u2019s one song that he does do singing on. Everybody that hears the song thinks it%u2019s Earth, Wind and Fire. That%u2019s what they say. %u201CThat has the feel of Earth, Wind and Fire.%u201D I think the name of the song is called %u201CUsed to Be.%u201D
BC: Um-hmm.
CP: Yeah, so it has that Earth, Wind and Fire feel. That%u2019s what everybody says, %u201CThat sounds like Earth, Wind and Fire, man. It%u2019s like what Earth, Wind and Fire are doing.%u201D I just laugh %u2018cause that%u2019s flattery. You know, everybody has respect for Earth, Wind and Fire.
BC: So, I%u2019m like at--right now, that%u2019s where we%u2019re trying to get to. We%u2019ve got a package. We%u2019ve got to get all that together, so, you know, I%u2019m hearing%u2026
TF: %u2026A lot to that, isn%u2019t there? The art work and the%u2026
BC: %u2026Um-hmm.
CP: Um-hmm.
BC: But, getting, maybe five grand--no whole--it ain%u2019t no whole lot of money. I know that if I can get my hands on at least five grand, press up about twenty-five hundred copies, we can make that back real quick. I haven%u2019t even been to Charlotte for us to play. He just has taken me to some areas--other groups are there, and I go and sit in, but I haven%u2019t even been up to Greensboro, Raleigh, Durham. I haven%u2019t been up in that area, and that%u2019s where a lot of the stuff started, as far as the recording with Don Byrd and all that. That started up in that area. I can sell some CD%u2019s once I get them in my hands. I can sell some CD%u2019s.
CP: So, I%u2019m singing that song, %u201CWe%u2019re Working Our Way Back to You, Baby.%u201D [Everyone laughed].
TF: Thank you, gentlemen.
CP: All right. Thank you.
BC: Thank you.

END OF INTERVIEW

Transcriber: Mike Hamrick
Date: July 25th, 2009